You Had One Job. . .

[Tecumsehsbones]

I also like the guilotine, it worked much better than rope or frying, apparently injection

That's actually true. I just threw that in for shock value. Guillotin invented his machine after witnessing people being beheaded (the execution method used in France at the time), where it often took two or more strokes to sever the head. The guillotine really was humane, compared to its predecessor.

But I thought you wanted suffering?

A jailer is a protector of society.

Not if his purpose is to induce suffering, he ain't.

 

[Sal]

That's actually true. I just threw that in for shock value. Guillotin invented his machine after witnessing people being beheaded (the execution method used in France at the time), where it often took two or more strokes to sever the head. The guillotine really was humane, compared to its predecessor.

But I thought you wanted suffering?

if we are going to murder someone do it properly...firing squad would work but I think it's too hard on the individual shooters to have to actually sight and fire...unless of course they have that type of psychological bent...if they do, I can't imagine that reinforcing that would be a good thing

as for suffering, yes... but not unnatural suffering... not imposed suffering...loss of freedom is a necessity since they have proven untrustworthy to the safety of the masses, thus the loss of freedom is self imposed the rest is up to us

Not if his purpose is to induce suffering, he ain't.

true, I agree, but his purpose is not to impose suffering only ensure incarceration, no?

 

[Zipperfish]

That's actually true. I just threw that in for shock value. Guillotin invented his machine after witnessing people being beheaded (the execution method used in France at the time), where it often took two or more strokes to sever the head. The guillotine really was humane, compared to its predecessor.

No method is perfect. The guillotine is a little dull or gets stuck in the guys head, and he's still screaming. The dude who gets the executioner snot-hanging drunk the night before so it takes him two or three swipes. The guy who's neck doesn't snap on the gallows and he's doing the funky chicken for the next ten minutes. The guy who has to ride the lightning twice because the first time his eyes popped out, but he didn't die. The guy who manages to crawl out of a shallow mass grave after being machine-gunned.

Whoi's idea was it to put a doctor in charge? They are useless at killing people, at least on purpose. Couldn't they find, like, an assassin or Mexcian drug cartel enforcer to consult? They know how to kill people. A doctor? Dumb.

 

[Twila]

if we are going to murder someone do it properly...firing squad would work but I think it's too hard on the individual shooters to have to actually sight and fire...unless of course they have that type of psychological bent...if they do, I can't imagine that reinforcing that would be a good thing

My understanding is that only 1 or 2 rifles have real live ammunition while the rest fire blanks. This way no one knows who fired the killing shot.

Just because it does. The person is now incarcerated they are no longer a danger to society. It is a form of revenge and according to everything I have read there is no such thing as closure for the victims friends and relatives. They hope there will be, but it would appear that from a psychological perspective, it does not work. Thus why bother? It is too expensive. Keep them alive.

Closure is possible but it comes from within. Its the individual finding ways to forgive or put aside hatred and anger. It does not come from seeing someone punished.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

No method is perfect. The guillotine is a little dull or gets stuck in the guys head, and he's still screaming. The dude who gets the executioner snot-hanging drunk the night before so it takes him two or three swipes. The guy who's neck doesn't snap on the gallows and he's doing the funky chicken for the next ten minutes. The guy who has to ride the lightning twice because the first time his eyes popped out, but he didn't die. The guy who manages to crawl out of a shallow mass grave after being machine-gunned.

Well, there's always the wood chipper.

Whoi's idea was it to put a doctor in charge? They are useless at killing people, at least on purpose. Couldn't they find, like, an assassin or Mexcian drug cartel enforcer to consult? They know how to kill people. A doctor? Dumb.

It was the 1700s. Back when people could be part-time politicians and normal the rest of the time. Guillotin didn't actually invent the guillotine, but he's credited with the adoption of it. He was a humanitarian and anti-death penalty, and he hoped the guillotine would be a first step to abolition.

 

[Sal]

My understanding is that only 1 or 2 rifles have real live ammunition while the rest fire blanks. This way no one knows who fired the killing shot.

yes I have heard that too...none the less, placing that burden on someone is hideous now you've got all of them wondering, was it me? It's not natural to kill unless one is being attacked...it's just wrong. I guess one could say one is killing in place of the victim, but it is still a lame justification that is not psychologically sound. Asking another to bear that burden for us is wrong. I would never expect nor ask that of another human being.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

My understanding is that only 1 or 2 rifles have real live ammunition while the rest fire blanks. This way no one knows who fired the killing shot.

Other way around, actually. Typically (though not always), the rifles are loaded by someone not in the firing party, and issued out to the firing party. One is loaded with a blank. This, however, is not so much so the firing party will not know, but more to provide plausible deniability. A blank doesn't recoil like a live round. The firing party member with the blank knows it. As do the ones with live rounds.

Closure is possible but it comes from within. Its the individual finding ways to forgive or put aside hatred and anger. It does not come from seeing someone punished.

Nice philosophy, but many people who have been victims or relatives of victims report that seeing the bad guy punished does help them achieve closure.

 

[Sal]

Closure is possible but it comes from within. Its the individual finding ways to forgive or put aside hatred and anger. It does not come from seeing someone punished.

I agree with you. It is a process that one works on that is either successful or is not.

However it is an argument which is used in favour of the death penalty; it will give closure. It does not according to everything I have read and is usually used by those who know little to nothing of the process of the mind.

Nice philosophy, but many people who have been victims or relatives of victims report that seeing the bad guy punished does help them achieve closure.

more than just a nice philosophy.... so, short term yes, long term no which produces much more stress since they thought it would.

 

[Locutus]

yeah, it's quite the moral debate this whole capital punishment thing...

anyway, let's consider the poor inmate's 'feelings'.




James WoodsVerified account ‏@RealJamesWoods

The killers laughed as Stephanie Neiman begged for her life...



http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/courts/death-row-inmate-killed-teen-because-she-wouldn-t-back/article_e459564b-5c60-5145-a1ce-bbd17a14417b.html?mode=jqm …

I hope he recalled that jocularity as he writhed in agony.

 

[Twila]

Other way around, actually. Typically (though not always), the rifles are loaded by someone not in the firing party, and issued out to the firing party. One is loaded with a blank. This, however, is not so much so the firing party will not know, but more to provide plausible deniability. A blank doesn't recoil like a live round. The firing party member with the blank knows it. As do the ones with live rounds.


Nice philosophy, but many people who have been victims or relatives of victims report that seeing the bad guy punished does help them achieve closure.

Well, there are the t i t for tat people. I can find studies that support for and against. I guess some people find satisfaction in revenge. I wouldn't say that's closure. But how I perceive something and how another does can be quite different.

I personally could not find closure in revenge/justice. I found closure in learning to accept what happened, and that realizing that I may have become the victim in the event, but I am not a victim for life. My experience was a violent sexual assault.

I guess different strokes for different folks...gah can't believe I just typed that.

 

[Locutus]

James WoodsVerified account ‏@RealJamesWoods



Beaten with a shotgun, shot twice, then buried alive. Her name was Stephanie Neiman. Remember HER. pic.twitter.com/BCNmilyG4R

poor guy.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Well, there are the t i t for tat people. I can find studies that support for and against. I guess some people find satisfaction in revenge. I wouldn't say that's closure. But how I perceive something and how another does can be quiet different.

Which probably means. . . "People have different psychological needs and desires." Another stunning conclusion from the Institute for the Study of the Bloody Obvious.

I personally could not find closure in revenge/justice. I found closure in learning to accept what happened, and that realizing that I may have become the victim in the event, but I am not a victim for life. My experience was a violent sexual assault.

I find that admirable. Good on ya.

I guess different strokes for different folks...gah can't believe I just typed that.

Seriously. Let's try for a little more creativity, mmm-kay?

How 'bout "Different smokes for different blokes?"

 

[Twila]

Which probably means. . . "People have different psychological needs and desires." Another stunning conclusion from the Institute for the Study of the Bloody Obvious.

Obvious for who? Look how many people can't see the obvious. Maybe it's not so obvious...like common sense...not so very common. Also, I would not give credence to what people think they need. Many seem to run head long into things they don't need. Self evaluation from a psychiatric standpoint is fool hardy.

Seriously. Let's try for a little more creativity, mmm-kay?

How 'bout "Different smokes for different blokes?"

uhm, no. It's wednesday and before noon. There is NO creativity on Wednesday before noon. Maybe after lunch...

I can't say for different blokes, cause that would exclude 51% of the population. This would lead to a call of discrimination and a boycott (which should also be changed to a person/people cott) and someone would need revenge and closure for their hurt feeling and monetary compensation.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Obvious for who? Look how many people can't see the obvious. Maybe it's not so obvious...like common sense...not so very common.




uhm, no. It's wednesday and before noon. There is NO creativity on Wednesday before noon. Maybe after lunch...

I can't say for different blokes, cause that would exclude 51% of the population. This would lead to a call of discrimination and a boycott (which should also be changed to a person/people cott) and someone would need revenge and closure for their hurt feeling and monetary compensation.

And you said you weren't creative before noon!

And don't knock monetary compensation for hurt feelings. There's good fees in that racket.

 

[Nuggler]

? Solution?

(I've had one cup of coffee and it's not yet hit my brain)

I'd also be ok with the courts using these people in science experiments to further human understanding of the brain. Not cruel Nazi experiments, but painless probing the brain to see what it does and if frontal labotomies COULD be perfected to prevent rapists, pedophiles, and psychopaths. It would be for the betterment of mankind.

Hey, Twila. Great idea ! We could charge money for people to see the lobotomized. Where did they do that in the past ?
Bedroom.....nope
Beldam
Bordon
It'll come to me


BEDLAM ! bongo.............er............bingo.

Saw this in a movie:
Guy is told he's being moved to another cell. Two guards, one on each arm, a third walks behind. They walk into a room, and the guy walking behind shoots criminal in the brain pan. Floor slopes to a drain. Prisoner is buried or burned, floor cleaned. Neat. Just the ticket for bad guys.
Mehhhhh, yer gonna kill an innocent from time to time. Awww, they probably did something bad sometime, to someone. Fukkem.

 

[Twila]

Hey, Twila. Great idea ! We could charge money for people to see the lobotomized. Where did they do that in the past ?
Bedroom.....nope
Beldam
Bordon
It'll come to me


BEDLAM ! bongo.............er............bingo.

forget paying to see those that have been lobotomized. I want to see the actual operation! I've never seen a brain in a Living human being before.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

if we are going to murder someone do it properly...firing squad would work but I think it's too hard on the individual shooters to have to actually sight and fire...unless of course they have that type of psychological bent...if they do, I can't imagine that reinforcing that would be a good thing

as for suffering, yes... but not unnatural suffering... not imposed suffering...loss of freedom is a necessity since they have proven untrustworthy to the safety of the masses, thus the loss of freedom is self imposed the rest is up to us

true, I agree, but his purpose is not to impose suffering only ensure incarceration, no?

Firing squads are usually 6-12 people only 1/2 with live rounds. There is no way to know that they killed the person. The guilt shifts to the group and therefore absoves the individual.

 

[Zipperfish]

The guilt shifts to the group and therefore absoves the individual.

Just like Natonal Socialism! Adn we're Godwinned.

 

[Sal]

Firing squads are usually 6-12 people only 1/2 with live rounds. There is no way to know that they killed the person. The guilt shifts to the group and therefore absoves the individual.

that would be worse than not knowing, then everyone would think they did...I get how it's supposed to work but the fact that we no longer use firing squads for public execution is likely a good indicator that it doesn't work well. I understand the army still may execute this way though.

 

[Walter]

Your misquote. I was polite in my request. You don't have to accede to it.

Twernt no misquote, Shakespeare.