Conservative government supports torture.

[damngrumpy]

The problem for the Conservatives has been they came to power promising there would
be a focus on moral issues as well as political accountability. Accountability in many
cases has fallen short. The Senate Scandal is two fold Harper appointed the members
who were not worthy to serve. Before being Prime Minister he once said he would not
appoint unelected Senators.
The headline here is over the top I will admit but when torture is used and we denounce
torture and demand justice for it when it happens through the world court we should not
use information gained by outright torture at the hands of others. That is a standard
belief.
there is one more but here though. We are dealing with people who are so sinister they
would use any method to do their evil even if it means killing children or women or who
ever. The also make human bombs out of the mindless people they brainwashed.
At some point we have to say, protection of our innocent must count for something.
I think we can't play by the rules with people who won't play by international rules.
Often enough I am not a fan of the Tories but can you imagine the screaming from the
left right and center if they had information and didn't use it and people died?

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

The problem for the Conservatives has been they came to power promising there would
be a focus on moral issues as well as political accountability. Accountability in many
cases has fallen short. The Senate Scandal is two fold Harper appointed the members
who were not worthy to serve. Before being Prime Minister he once said he would not
appoint unelected Senators.
The headline here is over the top I will admit but when torture is used and we denounce
torture and demand justice for it when it happens through the world court we should not
use information gained by outright torture at the hands of others. That is a standard
belief.
there is one more but here though. We are dealing with people who are so sinister they
would use any method to do their evil even if it means killing children or women or who
ever. The also make human bombs out of the mindless people they brainwashed.
At some point we have to say, protection of our innocent must count for something.
I think we can't play by the rules with people who won't play by international rules.
Often enough I am not a fan of the Tories but can you imagine the screaming from the
left right and center if they had information and didn't use it and people died?

I spent a good deal of time training with some of best officers that Nato has had to offer and also worked with military intelligence in our tactics school. The first thing they teach about interrogation is that you never put your hand on a prisoner. To do so is to taint any useful intelligence you might extract. That is the standard.

What I find appalling about horse hockey like the Op is contending is the believe that we can possibly invoke our standards upon the shoulders of these foreign countries. We can't and some pencil neck in Ottawa, be it Liberal, Conservative or New Democrat is not going to be able to mandate it either.

Some seem to forget that it was the Liberal Party of Canada who committed our soldiers to this Nato effort (and rightly so), but at that time Prime Minister Jean Chretien tried to dress it up as a friggin Peacekeeping mission. An outright lie, but heck that's all history. I watched this mission very closely because my son and nephew served on it and my nephew buried a couple of his friends along the way. My son was overseas for four bloody tours.

If we want our soldiers to be completely free of any type of foreign military scandal we should not send them on any deployment because whether you like it or not they cannot take every prisoner of war into full custody and bring them back to Canada. If we did that we'd end up with a whole hockey sock of Omar Khadr's. And one's enough thanks.

Anyway, that's my two cents on this propaganda thread.

 

[Liberalman]

Some seem to forget that it was the Liberal Party of Canada who committed our soldiers to this Nato effort

And it was the Conservative government that changed it to a combat mission so the majority of blood is on their hands

 

[mentalfloss]

You and Flossy should get together and flip to see who posts the next anti-Harper Rant........


http://forums.canadiancontent.net/c...2-tories-secretly-gave-canadian-military.html

This is the second time I've posted a thread first and it wasn't merged.

Mod is not doing his job.

 

[Locutus]

This is the second time I've posted a thread first and it wasn't merged.

Mod is not doing his job.

Hey slick, do you know how many moderators are on this site?

...also, do you think they read each and every thread?

...also, have you ever thought of maybe doing what other members do and PM a mod to request a merge/edit/deletion etc.

Have a good one. :smile:

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

And it was the Conservative government that changed it to a combat mission so the majority of blood is on their hands

No, that's a complete lie. The mission never changed. After Paul Martin became PM, the CDS General Rick Hillier informed the public that our forces would be suffering casualties as a result of the mission. It was never a peace keeping mission and Canada assumed its role of leading the Nato mission under PM Paul Martin.

I'm not going to drag out a bunch of dates and beat you over the head with them, because we both know I'm right.

If you like you can check wikipedia. Our first boots on the ground were the JTF2 who fought along side the navy seals in 2001.

 

[pgs]

The problem for the Conservatives has been they came to power promising there would
be a focus on moral issues as well as political accountability. Accountability in many
cases has fallen short. The Senate Scandal is two fold Harper appointed the members
who were not worthy to serve. Before being Prime Minister he once said he would not
appoint unelected Senators.
The headline here is over the top I will admit but when torture is used and we denounce
torture and demand justice for it when it happens through the world court we should not
use information gained by outright torture at the hands of others. That is a standard
belief.
there is one more but here though. We are dealing with people who are so sinister they
would use any method to do their evil even if it means killing children or women or who
ever. The also make human bombs out of the mindless people they brainwashed.
At some point we have to say, protection of our innocent must count for something.
I think we can't play by the rules with people who won't play by international rules.
Often enough I am not a fan of the Tories but can you imagine the screaming from the
left right and center if they had information and didn't use it and people died?

And the evil conservatives want to cut down all the trees and put a smoke stack on every corner .

 

[B00Mer]

Conservative government supports torture.

WOW!! What a sensational title... I guess we should just feed them cookies and milk and tell them everything is going to be O.K.

Meanwhile they had information that could have saved 100's or 1000's of lives.. maybe from a bomb on a train, a tanker truck that could be used as a weapon, and so on.

These are new times, the enemy does not wear a uniform, this is no longer conventional warfare, they walk among us, could be your neighbor, your kids teacher, a doctor, engineer...

''The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one''

This is the second time I've posted a thread first and it wasn't merged.

Mod is not doing his job.

Quit your cry'in.

 

[captain morgan]

Conservative government supports torture.

WOW!! What a sensational title... I guess we should just feed them cookies and milk and tell them everything is going to be O.K.

Hey Boom,

The take-away here is that you should never, ever get in between an ideologue and her cubs.... Even if you have powerful bullsh*t repellent, a charging ideologue is an irrational and mentally unstable foe.

 

[B00Mer]

On a rare occasion, yes I do.

I can imagine..

 

[DaSleeper]

This is the second time I've posted a thread first and it wasn't merged.

Mod is not doing his job.

Actually C K should ha asked a mod to merge the two threads.....but of course...a spammer doesn't do that......the more threads on his pet rant the better he feels....
Reminds me of the plethora of global warming threads.....but to each his own I guess......"C'est La Vie" ...non?:wink:

 

[PoliticalNick]

The problem for the Conservatives has been they came to power promising there would
be a focus on moral issues as well as political accountability. Accountability in many
cases has fallen short. The Senate Scandal is two fold Harper appointed the members
who were not worthy to serve. Before being Prime Minister he once said he would not
appoint unelected Senators.
The headline here is over the top I will admit but when torture is used and we denounce
torture and demand justice for it when it happens through the world court we should not
use information gained by outright torture at the hands of others. That is a standard
belief.
there is one more but here though. We are dealing with people who are so sinister they
would use any method to do their evil even if it means killing children or women or who
ever. The also make human bombs out of the mindless people they brainwashed.
At some point we have to say, protection of our innocent must count for something.
I think we can't play by the rules with people who won't play by international rules.
Often enough I am not a fan of the Tories but can you imagine the screaming from the
left right and center if they had information and didn't use it and people died?

Er, Grumpy.....just how are these 'sinister' people any different from our leaders? We brainwash our soldiers to blindly follow orders and kill people, including women and children. We don't strap bombs to people but we do strap them to airplanes and drop them from 1000's of feet above to rain terror down upon the victims. We invade foreign sovereign nations who have NEVER done anything to Canada or Canadians. Do not make out like we are f*cking saints here pal. We, along with the US, Britain and a few other countries are just as f*cking guilty of war crimes and illegal international aggression as anyone else you may have been brainwashed to hate. Get a grip on the reality of these illegal wars before you spout of your venomous drivel about entire populations you have no f*cking clue about!!!!

 

[Spade]

The trouble with us in Canada is we believe our own propaganda.

 

[Goober]

I get that conservatives would just love to live in a non-informational environment,but I'm really tired of being with stupid.

Aha I see the issue now. You must learn to like your innerself.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Er, Grumpy.....just how are these 'sinister' people any different from our leaders? We brainwash our soldiers to blindly follow orders and kill people, including women and children.

For starters you are able to post this without getting your door kicked in.

We don't strap bombs to people but we do strap them to airplanes and drop them from 1000's of feet above to rain terror down upon the victims.

This is a tad over the top.

We invade foreign sovereign nations who have NEVER done anything to Canada or Canadians.

So you contend that no Canadians were affected by 911? No casulties at the twin towers?

Do not make out like we are f*cking saints here pal. We, along with the US, Britain and a few other countries are just as f*cking guilty of war crimes and illegal international aggression as anyone else you may have been brainwashed to hate. Get a grip on the reality of these illegal wars before you spout of your venomous drivel about entire populations you have no f*cking clue about!!!!

No we are not.

 

[PoliticalNick]

For starters you are able to post this without getting your door kicked in.

Maybe so, but they still know I posted it. The door kicking may not be as far away as you would think. I know for a fact I have been added to a list of potential domestic terrorists simply because I disagree that our govt acts within the constitutional boundaries and would like to see radical changes to the constitution to severely limit their authority and and jusrisdiction.

This is a tad over the top.

So we didn't bomb Afghanistan and Libya? Our pilots are not responsible for 1000's of deaths? Were not a large portion of those deaths innocent civilians?

So you contend that no Canadians were affected by 911? No casulties at the twin towers?

No. I contend that that attack (if it wasn't a false flag operation) was not directed at Canada or Canadians. The Canadians that died that day were 'collateral damage' just like the Afghani and Lybian civilians that have died in the years since.

No we are not.

Your opinion. Mine is different.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Maybe so, but they still know I posted it. The door kicking may not be as far away as you would think. I know for a fact I have been added to a list of potential domestic terrorists simply because I disagree that our govt acts within the constitutional boundaries and would like to see radical changes to the constitution to severely limit their authority and and jusrisdiction.

Potential list? How do you know that you have been added?

So we didn't bomb Afghanistan and Libya? Our pilots are not responsible for 1000's of deaths? Were not a large portion of those deaths innocent civilians?

1000's of deaths? Nope.

No. I contend that that attack (if it wasn't a false flag operation) was not directed at Canada or Canadians. The Canadians that died that day were 'collateral damage' just like the Afghani and Lybian civilians that have died in the years since.

A Noto country was attacked. We are a member of Nato. It was a Nato operation.

Your opinion. Mine is different.

Thank goodness.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Potential list? How do you know that you have been added?

That's list of potential domestic terrorists, not a potential list. I know because I still have connections in CSIS and CBSA.

1000's of deaths? Nope.

Sorry but yes. Even conservative estimates are well over 5000-7000 and some estimates on total deaths are as high as 25k-30k

There had been at least 5,376 to 7,037 reported civilians killed by October 23, 2011. However, a number of civilians were also killed during the Second Battle of Benghazi and during the campaign in the Nafusa mountains, so the number could be far higher. Also, the number of civilians reported to had been killed in NATO air-strikes could be smaller because it was proven that some of the previous government-announced tolls from individual strikes were exaggerated

In the end, according to the numbers presented, a total of 14,572 to 18,873 deaths have been reported, of which some have not been independently confirmed.
The opposition stated near the end of the war that 25,000 people had been killed[122] and 4,000 had been reported as missing.

Casualties of the Libyan Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Noto country was attacked. We are a member of Nato. It was a Nato operation.

Yet not all NATO members took part in Afghanistan. Please remember Afghanistan did not actually take part in 9/11. There are suspicions that Al-Queda had training camps there but they were not sponsored by the govt or the citizens. At least not a majority of citizens.

I would like to see a link of where Libya attacked anyone outside their own borders, NATO or otherwise. It was a civil war and we had no business being there to push the outcome to one we favored.

There were no declarations of war on either account and both missions were far outside the Geneva conventions. We are from from lily-white in these matters and our leaders should really be on trial in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

That's list of potential domestic terrorists, not a potential list. I know because I still have connections in CSIS and CBSA.

Sorry but yes. Even conservative estimates are well over 5000-7000 and some estimates on total deaths are as high as 25k-30k

From Canadian bombs dropped? Care to support that statement with something a little more factual.

Yet not all NATO members took part in Afghanistan. Please remember Afghanistan did not actually take part in 9/11. There are suspicions that Al-Queda had training camps there but they were not sponsored by the govt or the citizens. At least not a majority of citizens.

The Taliban was asked to hand over Al Quaeda leader Osama bin Laden and the Taliban said screw you. He rode away on a white horse. blah blah blah...

I would like to see a link of where Libya attacked anyone outside their own borders, NATO or otherwise. It was a civil war and we had no business being there to push the outcome to one we favored.

I agree. That was all about keeping Europe in oil.

There were no declarations of war on either account and both missions were far outside the Geneva conventions. We are from from lily-white in these matters and our leaders should really be on trial in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Whatever. Be careful what you wish for Nick, you might not like the alternative.

 

[PoliticalNick]

From Canadian bombs dropped? Care to support that statement with something a little more factual.

Not being privy to all the related documentation I cannot give you an accurate count of which plane dropped which bomb on whom. What I can do is bring a logical train of thought....We were there, our planes dropped bombs, people died from those bombs. The bombs dropped by other nations...well we were complicit in those too.

I agree. That was all about keeping Europe in oil.

OK, cool!

Whatever. Be careful what you wish for Nick, you might not like the alternative.

There is always that chance but as long as we keep some semblance of law & order we could always change our model of govt again.