Barack Obama Failed
- Thread starter B00Mer
- Start date
You threw me off with the word "examples."
Here's what happened:
The Attack Democrat--Nothing Conservative Here: FACT CHECK: Budget Reconciliation and Obamacare.
Remember this is a Democratic site which elevates form over substance through a step transaction. However, the sequence of events is correct as layed out in the site's piece.
I am kind of upset that I read that only to find out that it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
This is what you said:
"There were non-budgetary differences between the two versions that sent it back to the Senate after the Democrats lost the sixtieth vote. Rather than be stymied Senator Harry Reid characterized the differences as being merely budgetary and use the budget reconciliation process to send the legislation to Obama for signature."
Please provide examples of what those non-budgetary issues that were characterized as budgetary issues are.
The GOP is making it harder not to succeed? It is the law of the land! The bill was passed by the Democrat Congress and signed into law by a Democrat.
The law is not succeeding because the law is horribly flawed.
If you mean that the GOP and opponents of the law should just keep quiet because you want them too... well that's not going to happen.
The Democrats want the GOP to fix what they (the Democrats) screwed up.
Which is fact. It is not working and won't. Unless it is repealed all we can do here in the US is endure it.
But make no mistake... this is a Democrat Law and there lies the blame 100%.
They didn't want it! Not even the GOP RINOs wanted it.
True. But that does not mean that the GOP had to help pass this failure of a law because YOU (or folks that think like you) want them too.
The Democrats could have made the law say whatever they wanted it to say. The GOP did not prevent them from doing anything... they couldn't. They did not have the votes to prevent any language which is why it is a Law today.
Obamacare could have said whatever the Democrats wanted to say. Obamacare is today what it is because the Democrats wanted it to be. They were all excited about it... they relished in their victory when it was passed... now look at it.
I am talking about when the law was being made. They did a lot to make it harder for the bill to be successful. For example, they wouldn't allow them to make changes to the bill after they got the 41st vote in the senate. They forced them to deal with the craziest corners of the Dems rather than coming to the table in any meaningful way.
They put a huge amount of money and effort into making sure that any GOP member who expressed anything but utter contempt for "Obamacare" would be tarred and feathered.
You are focused on a single point in time, and ignoring the fact that the bill was passed when the GOP had 41 votes in the senate and could filibuster any normal legislation. That put a huge limit on what they could do.
The simple fact is that the Democrats wanted to pass a different bill, but were unable to do so because of the 41st republican vote.
No No No
Now you're just making it up. Before Scott Brown was seated the bill was voted on and passed by Congress and signed into law by the President.
The Democrats made their bed and they wanted to spread blame around both parties. They knew midterms were coming and they wanted the GOP to take heat for Obamacare as well.
Nope... the GOP wasn't going to have any part of that trap.
Now you're just being silly. The GOP voted against this bill 100%.
I told you they could filibuster. However the Democrats, because they had the votes, stopped the filibuster. When the Democrats were ready to go to the Senate floor with the ACA Bill they put an immediate stop to the filibuster. There was nothing the GOP could do when the Democrats had the bill ready and convinced the wavering Democrats that everything would be ok.
The GOP filibuster did not hold up passage of the bill.
"On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster by opponents. The bill then passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against"
... one GOP Senator did not vote.
See? The filibuster was easily overridden.
And by the way... they did not have 41 Senators at the time of passage. Scott Brown was not seated. Sen Paul Kirk was and he voted for the bill.
Scott Brown: 'I'll Be The 41st Vote, Not The 60th Vote"
Nooooope. There was no 41st Senate Republican at the time of passage and signing.
The Democrats passed exactly what they wanted to pass. Exactly.
Any other "simple facts" you want to share?
Anything else I can help you with?
This is simply false.
Scott Brown assumed office on February 4th. The bill didn't get out of congress until March 21st, and was signed into law on March 23rd.
How is this a rebuttal to my point?
Influential groups within the GOP viciously attacked anyone who would not 100% renounce the Affordable Care Act, so it is no wonder why nobody on their side would risk coming to the table.
I told you they could filibuster. However the Democrats, because they had the votes, stopped the filibuster. When the Democrats were ready to go to the Senate floor with the ACA Bill they put an immediate stop to the filibuster. There was nothing the GOP could do when the Democrats had the bill ready and convinced the wavering Democrats that everything would be ok.
The GOP filibuster did not hold up passage of the bill.
"On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster by opponents. The bill then passed by a vote of 60–39 on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for, and all Republicans voting against"
... one GOP Senator did not vote.
See? The filibuster was easily overridden.
And by the way... they did not have 41 Senators at the time of passage. Scott Brown was not seated. Sen Paul Kirk was and he voted for the bill.
Scott Brown: 'I'll Be The 41st Vote, Not The 60th Vote"
Ok, well, the basic facts don't support your assertion that he was not seated when the bill became law.
Scott Brown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You also seem confused about what I am saying when I say they can filibuster. Sure, they can try to filibuster when they have 40 or less votes, but it is meaningless. Once Scott Brown was elected, then they could actually use that to prevent legistlation from being passed, such as any substantial revision of the Affordable Care Act.
Again, the bold part is simply wrong.
The bill was passed on December 24, 2009 in the Senate. lmao.
Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) and Sen. Paul Kirk (D-MA) both voted YES. Scott Brown was not even there. The bill was already out of the Senate and it never came back.
That is just Democrat nonsense because they passed such a horrible bill all by themselves.
You're just dancing around.
Scott Brown did not vote in December 24, 2009... it was all Democrat Senators that voted for it.
Boom!
I'm not confused... you are!
The Bill was already out of the Senate before Scott Brown got there! No matter which way you cut it... the facts are facts!
But the bill WAS passed by both houses and signed by the President. A bill authored by Democrats, passed by Democrats (and only Democrats) and signed into law by a Democrat President.
Scott Brown had no say.... by the time he was seated the Senate passed Obamacare and sent it to the House. He never voted for the bill one way or the other.
Right... he was seated by the signature date... but it was already a done deal. Sen. Paul Kirk was a Democrat and keeping Scott's seat warm for him voted to pass Obamacare.
Yeah... you think so?
This is just sad, your previous comment was crystal clear. You were wrong about the facts.
If you know anything about American politics, it is that big bills that initially come out of one of the houses is never exactly what is signed into law.The House and the Senate always have different bills and they have to reconcile them into a new bill that they can both pass.
Scott Brown's new position made it impossible for the democrats to get a reconciled bill through the senate. The GOP was very clear on that.
Sooooooo. If the GOP prevented them from passing the bill as they would have wanted to, how does that equate to them having no influence over this at all?
Well on the upside...
Countdown until Obama is OUT OF OFFICE
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984 days
23633 hours
1417981 minutes
85078904 seconds
source: Countdown to Nov 8, 2016 7:00 AM in San Bernardino
I mean how much worse can he screw up the country, it's not like he's going to dismantle the military and leave the USA helpless to defend itself and make it look weaker than it already does after Syria??
Countdown until Obama is OUT OF OFFICE
Zoom
984 days
23633 hours
1417981 minutes
85078904 seconds
source: Countdown to Nov 8, 2016 7:00 AM in San Bernardino
I mean how much worse can he screw up the country, it's not like he's going to dismantle the military and leave the USA helpless to defend itself and make it look weaker than it already does after Syria??
YOU'VE been wrong about facts!
I had one slip up... Scott was seated when it was signed by the President. However by that time his vote was irrelevant because Obamacare passed the Senate 60-39!
Obamacare was hotly debated by the Democrats all that year! Where were you? They were ripping each others throats over it. The GOP just sat back and smirked.
No no no... if the Democrats didn't like the bill they never would have passed it. You can't use "woulda, coulda, shoulda" here.
This is a 100% Democrat Bill.
They didn't stop them... they couldn't stop they or they would have. If it was up to the GOP there would be no bill at all.
But now the Democrats want to spread blame for their failures... or at least their failure of Obamacare.
It just isn't working.
There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding of how your own political system works here that is going to make it impossible to have an intelligent discussion about this.
Do you have any comprehension of how congress works?
Oh please Ruff... spare me.
You've lost the argument and you know it.
I am well aware how the US Congress works. It is you who has the comprehension problem.
You're trying to say that because Massachusetts elected a GOP Senator who would enable a sustainable filibuster when seated in the Senate that the Democrats had to vote for a bill they didn't want.
Well the fact of the matter is that the Democrats spent the majority of 2009 battling each other over this bill and had all the time in the world to go back and forth between each house of Congress. Instead the Democrats fought for exemptions and pork and tried to please their special interests groups. Not to mention lying to the American public about it.
The Senate passed a bill and the House of Representatives passed it as well. It was a Democrat bill 100%. If they thought it was bad legislation then they shouldn't have passed it and they have only themselves to blame. Shame on the Democrats for passing a bill just to save face of the Democrat Party and the President. They put their party and Obama ahead of the American people.
Now we have Obamacare and Democrats are trying to pin this on the GOP. It's not working... it won't work. Not everyone guzzles the Kool-Aid like you.