Barack Obama Failed

[The Old Medic]

When over 50% of the citizens of a country believe that their "leader" has failed, that leader is in BIG trouble.

It is NOT just the so called "Right Wing". Even fellow Democrats, liberals and middle of the road folks believe that this President has actually damaged the United States of America, and that he has NOT been good for the country.

That isn't the whole story.

With the death of Ted Kennedy, his seat came up for election and was won by a republican, which made it possible for the republicans to filibuster anything and everything that came through the senate. The senate was able to pass one version of the bill before this.

After that, the house and the senate normally have a conference to sort out disagreements between their two bills and then both pass another bill that they both agree with. This could not happen because the republicans openly said they would filibuster anything that came back to the senate. So their only option was to pass the senate bill or nothing at all.

That is absolutely untrue. The Senate never passed any Health Care bill, until after the Democrats took total and complete control of BOTH Houses of the Congress.

Yes, Scott Brown took the election, but his taking the seat in the Senate had absolutely NO effect on the ability of the Republicans to stop anything from being enacted. The Democrats controlled 60+ Senate seats, and they could, and did, pass anything that they chose to pass. They could shut off any Filibuster all by themselves.

Just remember the famous words of the then Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi: "We have to pass the bill, to learn what's in it".

 

[BornRuff]

When over 50% of the citizens of a country believe that their "leader" has failed, that leader is in BIG trouble.

It is NOT just the so called "Right Wing". Even fellow Democrats, liberals and middle of the road folks believe that this President has actually damaged the United States of America, and that he has NOT been good for the country.

Well, since they have been recording this sort of thing, pretty much every president has seen disapproval ratings climb above 50% and approval fall far below 50%. I'm sure he would rather these numbers were better for him right now, but it certainly isn't unprecedented.

That is absolutely untrue. The Senate never passed any Health Care bill, until after the Democrats took total and complete control of BOTH Houses of the Congress.

Yes, Scott Brown took the election, but his taking the seat in the Senate had absolutely NO effect on the ability of the Republicans to stop anything from being enacted. The Democrats controlled 60+ Senate seats, and they could, and did, pass anything that they chose to pass. They could shut off any Filibuster all by themselves.

Just remember the famous words of the then Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi: "We have to pass the bill, to learn what's in it".

This is just factually wrong. When Scott Brown was elected, he brought the number of republican votes up to 41, allowing them to filibuster. That was a central part of his election campaign. That meant that they could not have a conference and come up with a new bill that addressed things that the house and the executive would have liked to change. They could only make minor changes that were strictly budgetary.

 

[EagleSmack]

That isn't the whole story.

With the death of Ted Kennedy, his seat came up for election and was won by a republican, which made it possible for the republicans to filibuster anything and everything that came through the senate. The senate was able to pass one version of the bill before this.

Nay Nay Nay...

Obamacare was passed on December 24, 2009. The Democrats had all the time in the world to pass the bill. The infighting, Democrat greed, pork, and fear of voter reprisals was what delayed the passing. The summer and fall of 2009 was a horror show between the Democrats and the GOP just sat back and smirked.

The GOP could not stop the Democrats from passing anything.

After that, the house and the senate normally have a conference to sort out disagreements between their two bills and then both pass another bill that they both agree with. This could not happen because the republicans openly said they would filibuster anything that came back to the senate. So their only option was to pass the senate bill or nothing at all.

So if that was their option then it was very irresponsible to pass the disaster which is Obamacare.

Nevertheless... Obamacare was a Democrat bill and the only ones who voted for it were Democrats.

 

[BornRuff]

Nay Nay Nay...

Obamacare was passed on December 24, 2009. The Democrats had all the time in the world to pass the bill. The infighting, Democrat greed, pork, and fear of voter reprisals was what delayed the passing. The summer and fall of 2009 was a horror show between the Democrats and the GOP just sat back and smirked.

The GOP could not stop the Democrats from passing anything.


So if that was their option then it was very irresponsible to pass the disaster which is Obamacare.

Nevertheless... Obamacare was a Democrat bill and the only ones who voted for it were Democrats.

Lol, you seem to be denying basic math. By gaining the 41st vote the GOP was able to filibuster any new bills from being passed at that point. By refusing to come to the table at all, it gave power to the fringes of the democratic party.

These are simple facts.

 

[EagleSmack]

This is just factually wrong. When Scott Brown was elected, he brought the number of republican votes up to 41, allowing them to filibuster. That was a central part of his election campaign. That meant that they could not have a conference and come up with a new bill that addressed things that the house and the executive would have liked to change. They could only make minor changes that were strictly budgetary.

The GOP was able to filibuster before Scott Brown took his seat. However the Democrats had the votes to end the filibuster as Sen. Paul Kirk (D-MA) (Ted Kennedy's interim replacement) was seated and voted YES in December 2009.

You can't get out of this. The only reason you are blaming the GOP is because you know what a disaster this 100% Democrat Law is.

And it's all the Democrats fault.

Lol, you seem to be denying basic math. By gaining the 41st vote the GOP was able to filibuster any new bills from being passed at that point. By refusing to come to the table at all, it gave power to the fringes of the democratic party.

These are simple facts.

No I am not. By you simply blaming the GOP because Scott Brown was elected is a laugh.

The Senate GOP DID filibuster the ACA Bill when it came to the floor... the GOP did not have the votes to sustain the filibuster.

The Democrats had complete and total control of Congress. The GOP could not do a thing to stop them. The Democrat fighting was going on all year over this bill. The Democrats were afraid of the repercussions they would face in the 2010 midterm elections and they were trying to save their skins.

 

[BornRuff]

The GOP was able to filibuster before Scott Brown took his seat. However the Democrats had the votes to end the filibuster as Sen. Paul Kirk (D-MA) (Ted Kennedy's interim replacement) was seated and voted YES in December 2009.

You can't get out of this. The only reason you are blaming the GOP is because you know what a disaster this 100% Democrat Law is.

And it's all the Democrats fault.



No I am not. By you simply blaming the GOP because Scott Brown was elected is a laugh.

The Senate GOP DID filibuster the ACA Bill when it came to the floor... the GOP did not have the votes to sustain the filibuster.

The Democrats had complete and total control of Congress. The GOP could not do a thing to stop them. The Democrat fighting was going on all year over this bill. The Democrats were afraid of the repercussions they would face in the 2010 midterm elections and they were trying to save their skins.

Lol, there is a big difference between filibustering when you have 40 votes and when you have 41 votes. You are a smart guy, you know this. They prevented the house and the executive from making changes to the bill that they had wanted to make.

You also are smart enough to understand that refusal of the GOP to come to the table gave the fringes of the Democratic party lots of power.

So you honestly still think the GOP had no influence over how the bill turned out?

 

[BaalsTears]

The filibuster rule doesn't apply to the Budget Reconciliation Act. Democratic Majority Leader Senator Harry Reid illegitimately used the Budget Reconciliation process as the vehicle to pass the Affordable Care Act after the election of Scott Brown in Massachusetts. In other words the Democrats used a trick to get their way.

Maybe it won't be the eleventy-bazillionth and one rehash of the real, perceived, and fantasised failures of Obama through the eyes of the right wing.


Or maybe it will be.


Why don't you just blame Obama, like you do for everything else?

Criticism of Obama is flat out racism isn't? What other possible excuse could there be?

 

[EagleSmack]

Lol, there is a big difference between filibustering when you have 40 votes and when you have 41 votes. You are a smart guy, you know this. They prevented the house and the executive from making changes to the bill that they had wanted to make.

You also are smart enough to understand that refusal of the GOP to come to the table gave the fringes of the Democratic party lots of power.

The threat of a future filibuster is no excuse whatsoever for the Democrats Obamacare bill!

They could have passed whatever they wanted. ANYTHING at all! There was not a thing the GOP could do.

The GOP didn't go to the table because they were against the bill altogether. Besides, Obama and the Democrats made it quite clear... the GOP is out and the Democrats are in.

I am sure the Democrats would have loved to share the blame of this abomination known as Obamacare with the GOP. Alas, it is all theirs. This is the Democrat burden.

So you honestly still think the GOP had no influence over how the bill turned out?

Only in the fact that many Democrats were worried about losing their seats in Congress. The Democrats were the ones that kept scaling and changing the bill. They were scared as hell of facing the voters in 2010. So again, the Democrats were to blame 100%.

 

[BornRuff]

The filibuster rule doesn't apply to the Budget Reconciliation Act. Democratic Majority Leader Senator Harry Reid illegitimately used the Budget Reconciliation process as the vehicle to pass the Affordable Care Act after the election of Scott Brown in Massachusetts. In other words the Democrats used a trick to get their way.

They amended the bill using reconciliation, but reconciliation can be used to amend strictly budgetary issues. The Affordable Care Act involves non budgetary regulations, which could not be altered through that process.

The threat of a future filibuster is no excuse whatsoever for the Democrats Obamacare bill!

They could have passed whatever they wanted. ANYTHING at all! There was not a thing the GOP could do.

The GOP didn't go to the table because they were against the bill altogether. Besides, Obama and the Democrats made it quite clear... the GOP is out and the Democrats are in.

I am sure the Democrats would have loved to share the blame of this abomination known as Obamacare with the GOP. Alas, it is all theirs. This is the Democrat burden.

Only in the fact that many Democrats were worried about losing their seats in Congress. The Democrats were the ones that kept scaling and changing the bill. They were scared as hell of facing the voters in 2010. So again, the Democrats were to blame 100%.

The threat wasn't a hypothetical future issue when it came time to finalize the bill. The GOP had 41 votes and was not shy about letting people know that they would use the filibuster whenever possible.

As you would say, having a super majority in the past is no help if the current situation you are looking at is a GOP caucus with 41 votes.

Just because you like one side doesn't mean you have to be willfully blind to their influence on things like this.

 

[BaalsTears]

They amended the bill using reconciliation, but reconciliation can be used to amend strictly budgetary issues. The Affordable Care Act involves non budgetary regulations, which could not be altered through that process.

In theory you are correct, but in America an alligator can be an elephant if that's what people in power insist that it is. The Budget Reconciliation process was used as the legislative mechanism to get the ACA to Obama's desk for signature.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Criticism of Obama is flat out racism isn't?

I don't think so. If you do, I feel sorry for you.

What other possible excuse could there be?

Politics?

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of these things. No offense intended, just thinking you may want to study up on it some.

 

[BornRuff]

In theory you are correct, but in America an alligator can be an elephant if that's what people in power insist that it is. The Budget Reconciliation process was used as the legislative mechanism to get the ACA to Obama's desk for signature.

It affordable care act itself was passed through normal legislative process. The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 was passed through the reconciliation process.

 

[EagleSmack]

The threat wasn't a hypothetical future issue when it came time to finalize the bill. The GOP had 41 votes and was not shy about letting people know that they would use the filibuster whenever possible.

They were not shy about letting people know they would use it to stop Obamacare.

It was a VERY unpopular bill and now it is a VERY unpopular law.

And the Democrats did indeed pay for passing that bill in 2010 didn't they?

Just because you like one side doesn't mean you have to be willfully blind to their influence on things like this.

Just because the bill is a disaster doesn't mean you have to blame the GOP on what can be plainly seen as the disaster it is. The GOP knew what this bill meant and that is why they fought tooth and nail against it. They knew all along it would be a failure. If it wasn't for Obamacare the Democrats could very well own Congress to this day.

The Obama Administration and the Democrats completely mislead millions of Americans and out and out lied to them. That is a fact too.

Ruff... this is a 100% Democrat bill and that is a fact.

 

[BaalsTears]

I don't think so. If you do, I feel sorry for you.


Politics?

You don't seem to have a very good grasp of these things. No offense intended, just thinking you may want to study up on it some.

You missed the sarcasm.

 

[BornRuff]

They were not shy about letting people know they would use it to stop Obamacare.

It was a VERY unpopular bill and now it is a VERY unpopular law.

And the Democrats did indeed pay for passing that bill in 2010 didn't they?


Just because the bill is a disaster doesn't mean you have to blame the GOP on what can be plainly seen as the disaster it is. The GOP knew what this bill meant and that is why they fought tooth and nail against it. They knew all along it would be a failure. If it wasn't for Obamacare the Democrats could very well own Congress to this day.

The Obama Administration and the Democrats completely mislead millions of Americans and out and out lied to them. That is a fact too.

Ruff... this is a 100% Democrat bill and that is a fact.

I have a bit of a problem with people who did everything in their power to make it harder for the bill to succeed, to turn around and claim they always knew it wouldn't work. If moderate republicans had come to the table the bill would likely be very different. If the US congress actually worked towards getting the best possible legislation passed rather than just securing their seat for the next election, a lot of laws would be very different.

I also honestly can't see how preventing the Dems from making changes that they wanted to make to the bill amounts to the GOP having absolutely no impact on the outcome.

 

[taxslave]

The first boneheaded move was to let private insurance companies provide basic healthcare.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You missed the sarcasm.

I'm sure it was very productive.

 

[BaalsTears]

It affordable care act itself was passed through normal legislative process. The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 was passed through the reconciliation process.

The ACA first passed the Senate with sixty Democratic votes through the normal legislative process. It was then sent to the House where it passed with Democratic votes. There were non-budgetary differences between the two versions that sent it back to the Senate after the Democrats lost the sixtieth vote. Rather than be stymied Senator Harry Reid characterized the differences as being merely budgetary and use the budget reconciliation process to send the legislation to Obama for signature.

 

[BornRuff]

The ACA first passed the Senate with sixty Democratic votes through the normal legislative process. It was then sent to the House where it passed with Democratic votes. There were non-budgetary differences between the two versions that sent it back to the Senate after the Democrats lost the sixtieth vote. Rather than be stymied Senator Harry Reid characterized the differences as being merely budgetary and use the budget reconciliation process to send the legislation to Obama for signature.

Examples please?

 

[BaalsTears]

I'm sure it was very productive.

Sarcasm can be humorous or it can be used for purposes of ridicule.

For those with a sense of humor mirth at the expense of politicians is always productive of a laugh.

For purposes of ridicule sarcasm is a weapon which is usually productive to inflict partisan injury.

Examples please?

Are you asking for other examples of situations in which the budget reconciliation process was used for non-budgetary purposes?