Grace and Karma

darkbeaver

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"That is why God keeps and guards his WORD. If we do not have the WORD" - cj44

A benevolent god would not stifle human development, intelligence and creativity by making up all these silly rules. A god capable of creating the Universe would not be so insecure as to be jealous and demanding humans worship it. If anything, something like a fallen angel, perhaps would do such things. "Lucifer so deceived the human race that he convinced them he was god".

Lucifer is Gods twin and he is Lord of This Material World. Lucifer being here on earth is gods greatest benevolent act. Without him who could see and feel the good? And no I don't believe in a cloven hooved pitchfork bearing dungeon keeper under the ground. The character is a reference point a navigation beacon one of the two poles of human life, animals aren't bothered by him at all, he can separate us from them, or he can feed the beast in us. All gods work though, separating the wheat from the chaff, someone has to do it.


Are you familiar with the book of life referenced in Revelation 3, 13, 17, 20, 21, DB?

Let me check out my bible and get back in half an hour or so OK.

Yes I found it, the Book of Life is our soul.
 

cj44

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Scripture is ancient truth in allegory, this guarded the wisdom from the unworthy, those who could not penetrate to the hidden meaning. You only suppose you've read the bible and you seem to have no idea whatever of it's origins. Those old guys employed very sophisticated securities against just such as you.
Every human is a son of the intelligent god and every child contains a fragment of that god the bread of life.
Beavs, you turn God into a prankster and riddler. You deny the Holy Spirit His work. My dear Beavs, please speak more plainly. What is this you are saying?

"I learned that I could have read it a hundred times and still not seen any sense in it if not for the help from ten thousand years ago from the minds of long dead sages. Without them none of us have a chance of eating the real fruit. Now as unlikely as it may seem to you I am being born again standing on the shoulders of the ancient wise masters and I don't mind saying that the bible stories are revealed to me as beautiful logic through them, the ancients."

Beavs, you just sent the Holy Spirit to the unemployment office.

"That is why God keeps and guards his WORD. If we do not have the WORD" - cj44

A benevolent god would not stifle human development, intelligence and creativity by making up all these silly rules. A god capable of creating the Universe would not be so insecure as to be jealous and demanding humans worship it. If anything, something like a fallen angel, perhaps would do such things. "Lucifer so deceived the human race that he convinced them he was god".
CLiffy, As Christians, we do not define worship how you describe. Worship is defined as follows:
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”

Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
 

Cliffy

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Beavs, you turn God into a prankster and riddler. You deny the Holy Spirit His work. My dear Beavs, please speak more plainly. What is this you are saying?

"I learned that I could have read it a hundred times and still not seen any sense in it if not for the help from ten thousand years ago from the minds of long dead sages. Without them none of us have a chance of eating the real fruit. Now as unlikely as it may seem to you I am being born again standing on the shoulders of the ancient wise masters and I don't mind saying that the bible stories are revealed to me as beautiful logic through them, the ancients."

Beavs, you just sent the Holy Spirit to the unemployment office.
I think that if you would open your mind to greater possibilities, you will find that the bible is the abridged Readers Digest version of much more ancient texts. If you read them, you would find the full version sheds new light on the truth behind the bible stories.

I personally find that native teachings are more relevant because they were born of this land I live on and speak to my soul. The bible was born out of the ME. I find no connection to the bible and never have, even as a child being raised in a Christian family in the city. I live in the forest with all the Creator's children and I can just as easily sit down on a log and talk with the bear and deer as I can sit in a coffee shop and talk with humans. If you would watch that video I posted yesterday you will possibly understand the difference between spirituality and religion. Christianity is a religion.
 
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cj44

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I will take a moment to watch the video you posted, Cliffy.

I thought you mentioned in a previous post that "god was the supposed creator". Do you think Intelligent Design/Creation is behind all of life or evolution or something else? Just curious as here you mention "Creator's children".

And, if you would, please explain the dialogue/communication you share with the lovely beasts of the woods.
 

Cliffy

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I will take a moment to watch the video you posted, Cliffy.

I thought you mentioned in a previous post that "god was the supposed creator". Do you think Intelligent Design/Creation is behind all of life or evolution or something else? Just curious as here you mention "Creator's children".

And, if you would, please explain the dialogue/communication you share with the lovely beasts of the woods.
How to explain this? You see god as a separate entity to creation, I see the Creator as creation, as in not separate. The spiritual point of view is that everything is interconnected and interdependent, Everything is the creator and we are all part of the creator. We are all divine beings made up of god particles and that means everything; rock, toads, eagles and humming beings. So I treat animals as my kin and so they recognize me as theirs. That is the difference, spirituality is inclusive and religion is exclusive or separate. Separation or the duality of reality, is the realm of religion. The two views are 180% in opposition to each other; black and white.

When I talk to animals, I will either speak with my mouth or with my mind. It depends on the situation, but deer seem to respond to my voice when I speak softly. They respond more to the intention in my words. I have talked wild deer into coming up to me and being petted. I had one doe who brought her fawns to show me every year. I fished in the same pool with bears. I chased a bear off once by kicking him in the butt because hunters were coming and he wasn't afraid of me so he wouldn't leave any other way.
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Grace is God's unmerited favor. It is kindness from God we don't deserve. There is nothing we have done, nor can ever do to earn this favor. It is a gift from God. Grace is divine assistance given to humans for their regeneration (rebirth) or sanctification; a virtue coming from God; a state of sanctification enjoyed through divine favor. Grace - What is Grace?

Is God's grace/unmerited favor always pleasant/appreciated?

No. At times, God offers a carrot and on other occasions, a stick. In God's wisdom and love, both can be perfectly suited to our current condition and designed (again in wisdom and love) for our edification.
 

cj44

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Sep 18, 2013
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Cliffy, I watched the video. A few thoughts. The school of thought represented by the dude in the video reminds me of a 1960's hippie raging against the machine. And the is fine, I don't have a problem with that. Though, I see how that view prevents one from knowing God as a personal Being. You comment that we are all divine beings made up of God particles. I take this to mean that you do not view God as a Person or individual Being? Would you say there is no person/Being God, rather we are God?
I will watch the video again so as to pay closer attention to what he is saying.

Motar, Sometimes God's grace may appear quite unpleasant. Then we must remind ourselves that God disciplines those he loves. Who is never in need of correction or adjustment? Sadly, I believe much of God's grace to go unnoticed and unappreciated in both believers and non-believers.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Beavs, you turn God into a prankster and riddler. You deny the Holy Spirit His work. My dear Beavs, please speak more plainly. What is this you are saying?

"I learned that I could have read it a hundred times and still not seen any sense in it if not for the help from ten thousand years ago from the minds of long dead sages. Without them none of us have a chance of eating the real fruit. Now as unlikely as it may seem to you I am being born again standing on the shoulders of the ancient wise masters and I don't mind saying that the bible stories are revealed to me as beautiful logic through them, the ancients."

Beavs, you just sent the Holy Spirit to the unemployment office.

There's a reason that the old ways were called the Mystery Schools. Unemployment is properly thought an impossibility for the Spirit. The concept was obviously penned without the benefit of your company. If you continue to discount the work of the old masters you will never become one with Christ, if that is in fact what you really want. The bible studied without the works I have cited is nonsense with a food value for the mind not exceeding the lowest quality cheezeburger platter. So until and unless you avail yourself of the ancient literature you will certainly never understand the word and the works. The one and only way to be reborn is through the narrow path called knowledge. In the future should you have reason to communicate with me you will pay me the common courtesy of addressing me as Mr Beaver. Thank you for your time goodbye.
 

Cliffy

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Cliffy, I watched the video. A few thoughts. The school of thought represented by the dude in the video reminds me of a 1960's hippie raging against the machine. And the is fine, I don't have a problem with that. Though, I see how that view prevents one from knowing God as a personal Being. You comment that we are all divine beings made up of God particles. I take this to mean that you do not view God as a Person or individual Being? Would you say there is no person/Being God, rather we are God?
I will watch the video again so as to pay closer attention to what he is saying.
John Trudell is a native American who was one of the founders of AIM. He is a poet, actor and speaker who has been exposed to both cultures and his views come from personal experience. To me, The Universe is the Creator, but the aboriginal peoples also refer to it as the Great Mystery (the infinite is unknowable and incomprehensible to the finite mind). There is an expression that says, we are the eyes and ears of god having a human experience. I believe that the Creator is in a constant state of evolution, ever growing with the experiences of each individual sentient being in all of the Universe.

The personal god is a construct of separation thinking. It is necessary to try to make sense of the duality of such thinking but, to me, there is no separation. God is not separate from anything, it is everything and we are connected to it through what some people call the soul. That is why I refer to the Source (it has no religious connotation). Because we are part of the Creator, we have a direct line of communication through the soul (some say our heart). Thought and belief are the realm of the ego but intuition is the channel to the Source. That is where inspiration comes from. You may call it the holy spook, but to me they are one and the same.

In the future should you have reason to communicate with me you will pay me the common courtesy of addressing me as Mr Beaver. Thank you for your time goodbye.
Does that mean I can't address you as the Beav? I hate formalities.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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John Trudell is a native American who was one of the founders of AIM. He is a poet, actor and speaker who has been exposed to both cultures and his views come from personal experience. To me, The Universe is the Creator, but the aboriginal peoples also refer to it as the Great Mystery (the infinite is unknowable and incomprehensible to the finite mind). There is an expression that says, we are the eyes and ears of god having a human experience. I believe that the Creator is in a constant state of evolution, ever growing with the experiences of each individual sentient being in all of the Universe.

The personal god is a construct of separation thinking. It is necessary to try to make sense of the duality of such thinking but, to me, there is no separation. God is not separate from anything, it is everything and we are connected to it through what some people call the soul. That is why I refer to the Source (it has no religious connotation). Because we are part of the Creator, we have a direct line of communication through the soul (some say our heart). Thought and belief are the realm of the ego but intuition is the channel to the Source. That is where inspiration comes from. You may call it the holy spook, but to me they are one and the same.


Does that mean I can't address you as the Beav? I hate formalities.



You can call me anything you like Cliffy, the formality is only for the dime store christians. You know the Romans had them pegged a long time ago.

The crossing is not the same as the cross in immediate portrayal of meaning, yet the two lead by a short step into each other’s province. In a very direct sense the cross is connected with the flood of water that must be crossed, with the baptism and the lower sea voyage. In its totality, as the allegorical expression of a real experience, racial and individual, all this was the cross. This most ancient, perhaps, of all religious symbols (by no means an exclusive instrument of Christian typology) was the most simple and natural ideograph that could be devised to stand as an index of the main basic datum of human life--the fact that in man the two opposite poles of spirit and matter had crossed in union. The cross is but the badge of our incarnation, the axial crossing of soul and body, consciousness and substance, in one organic unity. An animal nature that walked horizontally to the earth, and a divine nature that walked upright crossed their lines of force and
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consciousness in the same organism. The implications of this situation are all that the great symbol ever connoted. There can be nothing more religiously holy and sacred about the sign than about any other figure of human life. It means just that human life--nothing more. By ecclesiastical psychologization it has come to betoken a range of emotional repercussions, but it still carries no basic meaning other than that of the god immersed in matter. Whatever is sacred in human life is so by virtue of that single fact. However, since all values in life flow from that fundamental ground, the symbol may legitimately be made the talismanic focus of both emotional and intellectual reaction. If it conveys to the mass mind the strong intimation that this life itself is haloed with august significance, is essentially sacred and worthy of being lived with deepest consecration of purpose and effort to its intelligently discerned ends, its symbolic influence would indeed be salutary. If it is taken to be a cross of wood on which a man of flesh was physically nailed some nineteen centuries ago, its effect on thought must be stultifying and deadening. A B KHUN LOSTLIGHT

The coming of mind in man to rule nature brought the figure of the cross into symbolism because it brought the upright line to cross at right angles the horizontal line denoting the feminine or natural creation. Man was the first to raise the animal from horizontal position to the vertical; yet both natures live in him, considerably at "cross purposes" with each other. At any rate typology figured the mother creation, before mind came with man, by the horizontal line, which is the minus sign. Nature was privation--the Greeks called matter "privation." The union with it, however, of the intellectual principle made it capable of adding and increasing, giving itself more life, and so the cross is the plus sign. But great multiplication of living beings could not come until the forces were set in motion; and motion was indicated by a moving of the straight cross one half of a quarter revolution, or out of motionless position; and this gives the multiplication sign, as well as the numeral (Roman) ten, the number that joins male and female signs, I and O, in activity. It was the crossing of spirit with matter that moved and multiplied the worlds. And ten is
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the number of the completed cycle, and the tenth letter of the Hebrew alphabet is Yod, the name of God. The bread of life had to be vastly multiplied before it could be distributed. The mathematical sign of division is the horizontal line, with a dot above and below to signify that when life divided it split into two kingdoms, one above, the other below, a median line. And we shall see that this gives a perfect picture or glyph of man’s nature lived on the horizon line between "Upper and Lower Egypt."
The Toltecs called the cross the Tree of Sustenance and the Tree of Life. The tree and cross are identical, and even the staff or rod is a reduced form of the tree-type, for Aaron’s rod was fabled to be a stem from the Tree of Life in Genesis. The cross is a symbol of life, never of death, except as "death" means incarnation. It was the cross of life on earth because its four arms represented the fourfold foundation of the world, the four basic elements, earth, water, air and fire, of the human temple, and because it was an emblem of the reproduction of new life, and thus an image of continuity, duration, stability, an eternal principle ever renewing itself in death. The whisperings of esoteric fable report that the very tree on which Jesus was hanged was grown from a sprout or seed from the forbidden Tree of Life in Genesis! There are many instances of the cross burgeoning into fresh life. The savior is not nailed on the tree; he is the tree. He unites in himself the horizontal human-animal and the upright divine. And the tree becomes alive; from dead state it flowers out in full leaf. The leaf is the sign of life in a tree. The Egyptians in the autumn threw down the Tat cross, and at the solstice or the equinox of spring, erected it again. The two positions made the cross. The Tat is the backbone of Osiris, the sign of eternal stability. And Tattu was the "place of establishing forever."

The cross of Calvary of Christian iconography is common on the breasts of Egyptian mummies. It is identical with the Ankh-cross, denoting life and renewal. The cross was placed in the hands of the dead as an emblem both of incarnation and the new life to come. It was carved on the back of the scarab, with the same meaning. The Horus of the resurrection is pictured with the Cross of Life in his hand in the act of raising the dead body from the bier. The sign of the cross was made upon the mummy entering the realm of the dead; it was also given to the soul as it arose out of the body as an emblem of rebirth.
The cross has been appropriated by Christian ecclesiasticism as the unique and distinctive emblem of its faith. Yet in the iconography of the catacombs no figure of a man on the cross appears during the first six or seven centuries of the era! Instead there are all forms of the cross except the one which is claimed to be the very basis and origin of the religion itself. The cross of Calvary was not the initial, but the final form of the crucifix. The cult that now buttresses its authenticity upon the historic Calvary presents not a single reproduction of its crucified Redeemer in its symbolic art during the first six or seven centuries! According to Massey the earliest known form of the human figure on the cross is the crucifix presented by Pope Gregory the Great to Queen Theodolinde, now in the Church of St. John at Monza; while no image of the crucifix is found in the catacombs at Rome earlier than that of San Siulio belonging to the seventh or eighth century. In the earliest representations of the Trinity made by Christian artists, the Father and the Holy Spirit, the latter being feminine in the form of the Dove, are pictured beside the cross. A Christ, and him crucified, is utterly absent. Not the Crucified, but the cross, is the primary symbol of the Christian faith. Yet that same cross is pre-Christian, is a pagan and heathen symbol. For centuries the cross stood for the Christ, and was addressed as if it were a living thing. Crucifixes have been found in Christian churches antedating the fourth century, with a human figure nailed or bound in the conventional way; but the figure is not that of Jesus! It is that of Orpheus! In Christian imagery the Lamb was the usual figure on the cross, when a sacrificial victim was added to the bare cross emblem.
 
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cj44

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Mr. Beaver,
I wish to thank you for your concern. Methinks I have agitated you. My apologies. Thank you for your information.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Mr. Beaver,
I wish to thank you for your concern. Methinks I have agitated you. My apologies. Thank you for your information.

It's our information compiled since the first incarnation by our own very intelligent ancestors. It is the very food of the gods itself. An untested faith is no faith at all. Eat.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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How to explain this? You see god as a separate entity to creation, I see the Creator as creation, as in not separate. The spiritual point of view is that everything is interconnected and interdependent, Everything is the creator and we are all part of the creator. We are all divine beings made up of god particles and that means everything; rock, toads, eagles and humming beings. So I treat animals as my kin and so they recognize me as theirs. That is the difference, spirituality is inclusive and religion is exclusive or separate. Separation or the duality of reality, is the realm of religion. The two views are 180% in opposition to each other; black and white. When I talk to animals, I will either speak with my mouth or with my mind. It depends on the situation, but deer seem to respond to my voice when I speak softly. They respond more to the intention in my words. I have talked wild deer into coming up to me and being petted. I had one doe who brought her fawns to show me every year. I fished in the same pool with bears. I chased a bear off once by kicking him in the butt because hunters were coming and he wasn't afraid of me so he wouldn't leave any other way.

Agree, Cliffy. The Artist's unique heart/mind/hands are embodied in his/her art. Creation proceeds from and honors the Creator:

"Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can’t see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being." (Romans 1:18-23 The Message)

Also agree, Cliffy. Spirituality and religiosity are distinct. I embrace a particular spirituality (Christianity) which is embodied in the person of Christ. You and I share some significant common ground in our understanding of these things. We experience some distance in semantics - how we label it : )

There is an integral social appetite in all of us, even those of us who experience cognitive social impairment (ie. Asperger's). I mention Asperger's because I am personally acquainted with it within my family. We are all wired for personal human relationship:

"God said, 'It’s not good for the Man to be alone; I’ll make him a helper, a companion.' So God formed from the dirt of the ground all the animals of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the Man to see what he would name them. Whatever the Man called each living creature, that was its name. The Man named the cattle, named the birds of the air, named the wild animals; but he didn’t find a suitable companion." (Genesis 2:18-20 The Message)

The "cat lady" doesn't find personal social fulfillment in her pets. The cat collection is often a means of avoiding social contact. "People avoidance" is often perpetrated by previous relational abuse/neglect. There is a remedy for this:

"Irresponsible talk makes a real mess of things, but a reliable reporter is a healing presence." (Proverbs 13:17 The Message) The reliable Reporter is Christ. His words are a healing balm to a wounded and isolated soul.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
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Noah and Arc




But who shall find authority strong enough to deny that the Greek arkein is not a slight variant or modification of the primary stem arch-? In this stem at any rate is the source of the basic meaning of the typism underlying the ark symbolism. For arche (Greek) means, most significantly, "the beginning"; and the seed is the beginning of the new generation, as it is the end of the preceding growth! When the cycle is ended and life has had its development and withdrawn from the form, it goes into rest for a night, after which it begins another cycle to gain further advance in enrichment. And here life operates according to a methodology that is basic for knowledge of its laws. In every new life period the indwelling and animating principle of soul begins its new career back at the point of the original beginning of all evolution itself. Every minor cycle becomes a miniature and reflection of the whole cycle of life in manifestation. It starts each new round at the point where first life started, or as the first word in the Greek Bible (Genesis) has it, en arche (Hebrew B’ra****h), "in
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the beginning" of all creation. Each round starts from the same arche, for it has retired into that arche, or first primeval state of being, at the end of the preceding cycle, and must issue thence at the beginning of the next. More quickly, however, in each succeeding round it recapitulates its initial stages of growth. It is itself the Ancient of Days, a spark of that Infinite Being which is neither young nor old, but is ageless. Its new physical vehicle in each generation, however, traverses the successive stages of the entire evolution up to the point which the soul had achieved in the last activity, to go on a step farther from there. The immortal principle of soul retires into the primordial abysmal arche at the end of each active period, and emerges from it at each new beginning. And while in retirement in this arche it is tided safely over the waters of dissolution of form. Life does nothing else endlessly but go in and out of the arche. From manifest appearance in the worlds of actuality it retires into just what Plato denominated it, its archetypal form in noumenon. It comes out of this bosom of primordiality and withdraws into it in endless turn. It shuttles between adult growth in one cycle and embryonic seed beginnings in the next.
What characters, then, should we expect to find going into the ark to ride the flood? The names of Noah and his sons have not been competently etymologized, and much of the sequel is found here. The Greek word for the divine Mind is Noë, a feminine form of the universal cosmic Intelligence, the Nous--though Massey traces it from the Egyptian Nu or Nnu. The feminine form of the word, Noë, is quite significant, since it is in its feminine form in the Hebrew language that it comes to its form of No-ah, ah being a feminine termination. The no- is the stem of our own word "know," and of course the basis of such a word as "Gnosis." Noah is therefore the name of the divine intellectual principle, which, having projected itself into matter for the period of the active cycle, withdraws into the arche at the dissolution of its outward forms, as the spirit of the oak tree retires into the acorn before the storms crash its form to molder away. The French word for "Christmas" derives from the same stem, being No-el, which reads "(the birth of) God-Mind." And who are Noah’s three sons, who go with him into the ark? A B Khun LostLight
 
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Motar

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Let me check out my bible and get back in half an hour or so OK. Yes I found it, the Book of Life is our soul.

The book of life is written on our soul, DB:

"Your very lives are a letter that anyone can read by just looking at you. Christ himself wrote it—not with ink, but with God’s living Spirit; not chiseled into stone, but carved into human lives—and we publish it. We couldn’t be more sure of ourselves in this—that you, written by Christ himself for God, are our letter of recommendation. We wouldn’t think of writing this kind of letter about ourselves. Only God can write such a letter. His letter authorizes us to help carry out this new plan of action. The plan wasn’t written out with ink on paper, with pages and pages of legal footnotes, killing your spirit. It’s written with Spirit on spirit, his life on our lives!" (2 Corinthians 3:3-6 The Message)
 

Cliffy

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Agree, Cliffy. The Artist's unique heart/mind/hands are embodied in his/her art. Creation proceeds from and honors the Creator:

"Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can’t see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being." (Romans 1:18-23 The Message)

Also agree, Cliffy. Spirituality and religiosity are distinct. I embrace a particular spirituality (Christianity) which is embodied in the person of Christ. You and I share some significant common ground in our understanding of these things. We experience some distance in semantics - how we label it : )
Semantics. Which is what I have been saying all along except I called it dogma. Every religion, every spiritual path is separated by semantics. You say Christ, a Muslim says Mohamed, a Buddhist says Buddha, Native Americans say White Buffalo Calf Woman. They all personalize the concept of the divine spark in all of us. The underlying message of all is basically the same. When a Hindu puts his hands together and bows to another person and says "Namaste" it roughly translates as "I bow to the God within you", or "The Spirit within me salutes the Spirit in you".
 

darkbeaver

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Jan 26, 2006
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The book of life is written on our soul, DB:

"Your very lives are a letter that anyone can read by just looking at you. Christ himself wrote it—not with ink, but with God’s living Spirit; not chiseled into stone, but carved into human lives—and we publish it. We couldn’t be more sure of ourselves in this—that you, written by Christ himself for God, are our letter of recommendation. We wouldn’t think of writing this kind of letter about ourselves. Only God can write such a letter. His letter authorizes us to help carry out this new plan of action. The plan wasn’t written out with ink on paper, with pages and pages of legal footnotes, killing your spirit. It’s written with Spirit on spirit, his life on our lives!" (2 Corinthians 3:3-6 The Message)

You can read a book from its cover then? Christ does not write your book, it's enough that he supplied the paper the power and the choice. That much is standard equipment. Don't you think he'd soon get tired of reading his own book over and over? What new plan of action? The cycles are eternal, remember.
Further to that, your soul is a fragment of the essence of god, power, that power, your soul, is certainly written in the stone and clay that are the material you. Any bible passage you select will not mean what you think it means, the ands and the buts are missing you see.
 

Motar

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Christ does not write your book, it's enough that he supplied the paper the power and the choice. That much is standard equipment. Don't you think he'd soon get tired of reading his own book over and over?

"Keep your eyes on Jesus, who both began and finished this race we’re in. Study how he did it. Because he never lost sight of where he was headed—that exhilarating finish in and with God—he could put up with anything along the way: Cross, shame, whatever. And now he’s there, in the place of honor, right alongside God. When you find yourselves flagging in your faith, go over that story again, item by item, that long litany of hostility he plowed through. That will shoot adrenaline into your souls!" (Hebrews 12:1-3 The Message)

Motar, Sometimes God's grace may appear quite unpleasant. Then we must remind ourselves that God disciplines those he loves. Who is never in need of correction or adjustment? Sadly, I believe much of God's grace to go unnoticed and unappreciated in both believers and non-believers.

Right. His rod and staff are both sources of comfort to his children, cj.

Been thinking. God's grace/unmerited favor is at times still and silent. Sometimes, grace is experienced in what is not done and what is not said. That is a particular grace. This is mercy.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
This explanatory material must begin with the broad blunt statement that what is commonly believed about the Bible as a book, its date, authorship and "inspiration," is all quite erroneous. Let us be explicit in this: the solid bulk of common belief about this book is totally untrue! There is scarcely a single item of the common man's presuppositions about the Christian Scriptures,--who wrote its books, when it was written, how the composition was "dictated" or "inspired," what its message really means, in what language it was written, what is its assumed historical reference, how and why these particular books were selected out of hundreds to become "the Bible," and other subsidiary questions by the score--that comes within the proverbial mile of the actual truth concerning this mysterious document that for centuries has held the minds of millions under the prodigious obsession of its inviolable sanctity. The
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grim and sober truth must now be stated, that all general ideas about this volume, disseminated among the masses by the priests of the religions and never corrected by them, are totally, grossly, tragically false to fact.
I

For this world alone provides the fulcrum of matter against which
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spirit can base and brace itself to exert its potential might. We are, as souls, being crucified in this world. And so it is no miscarriage of truth when the Revelation verse says that Christ was crucified in "Egypt."

 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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Been thinking. God's grace/unmerited favor is at times still and silent. Sometimes, grace is experienced in what is not done and what is not said. That is a particular grace. This is mercy.

I've also been thinking about grace in the Old Testament, cj:

"Now the Lord was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did for Sarah what he had promised." (Genesis 21:1 NIV)

"And the Lord was gracious to Hannah; she gave birth to three sons and two daughters. Meanwhile, the boy Samuel grew up in the presence of the Lord." (1 Samuel 2:21 NIV)

"But the Lord was gracious to them (Israel) and had compassion and showed concern for them because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To this day he has been unwilling to destroy them or banish them from his presence." (2 Kings 13:23 NIV)