Rebirth Through Baptism

Motar

Motar

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Pope Francis spoke in St. Peter's Square today as recounted by reporter Carol Glatz:

"The pope continued a series of talks on the sacrament of baptism, underlining that it is through baptism that 'we become members of the body of Christ and the people of God. Just as parents pass the gift of life from generation to generation, the gift of grace is passed on with each person’s rebirth through baptism,' he said." Pope: Persecuted Christians must hunker down, hold tight to God, hope - Catholic Philly

CatholicPhilly.com is the web site of The Catholic Standard and Times,official newspaper of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia, which ceased publication in June 2012. CatholicPhilly.com and PhaithMagazine.com continue the mission of the former print publication, now in digital format only: to inform, educate and inspire Catholics of the Philadelphia Archdiocese through news and feature stories on the local, national and international level. About Us - Catholic Philly

What is baptism? What is (spiritual) rebirth? How is baptism related to (spiritual) rebirth?
 
C

Cliffy

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I fail to see what good baptizing a baby can do. It doesn't understand what is happening, but then, I don't beleive in indoctrinating any child into religion. I consider it child abuse up until a person reaches the age of reason. Then they can make their own choice what path to follow.
 
Motar

Motar

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gerryh

gerryh

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Motar said:
"In the book of Leviticus, God instructs Jews to cleanse themselves from ritual impurities, contracted through such acts as touching a corpse or a leper. Washing primarily fulfilled the legal requirements of ritual purity so that Jews could sacrifice at the Temple." What is the pre-Christian history of the baptismal ceremony? | Christian History

Children were not included in these ritual cleansings.
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and yet you quote the Pope concerning Baptism........ interesting.
 
Motar

Motar

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Motar said:
What is (spiritual) rebirth?
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"Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.' Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. 'How can someone be born when they are old?' Nicodemus asked. 'Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born! 'Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." (John 3:1-8 NIV)

According to Jesus, water and the Spirit (of God) are involved in spiritual rebirth. Does the water refer to baptism or to something else?
 
gerryh

gerryh

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Motar said:
"Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, 'Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.' Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. 'How can someone be born when they are old?' Nicodemus asked. 'Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born! 'Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spiritgives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘Youmust be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." (John 3:1-8 NIV)

According to Jesus, water and the Spirit (of God) are involved in spiritual rebirth. Does the water refer to baptism or to something else?
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Like I said, you don't agree with infant baptism yet you quote the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic Church which practices infant baptisms. Why is that?
 
gerryh

gerryh

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Spade said:
I don't think, Gerry, Motar is convinced Catholics are really Christians.
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Well, that is something I would like to hear direct from him, that is, if he is man enough to tell us what he really thinks and doesn't just beat all around the bush.
 
Spade

Spade

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Well, what he will say it is not he who decides but God through scripture. And, he has quoted scripture declaring Catholics aren't. He, as a born-again fundamentalist sees all sects such as the Orthodox, Anglicans, and so on, that baptize infants as deficient.

But, that's okay, since Catholics see his sect as deficient. That's what I was getting at in the other discussion, but neither Motar nor cj44 would commit.
,
 
gerryh

gerryh

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Spade said:
Well, what he will say it is not he who decides but God through scripture. And, he has quoted scripture declaring Catholics aren't. He, as a born-again fundamentalist sees all sects such as the Orthodox, Anglicans, and so on, that baptize infants are deficient.
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Well, his loss, not mine.

Spade said:
But, that's okay, since Catholics see his sect as deficient.
,
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No we don't.
 
Spade

Spade

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Pope Francis has not changed any doctrinal teachings.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Quote:
The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. With the Orthodox churches, this communion is so profound that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist. (CCC 838)

So, the Church teaches that Motar and cj44 may be saved because through no fault of their own they are ignorant of the Truth.
 
gerryh

gerryh

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Spade said:
Pope Francis has not changed any doctrinal teachings.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Quote:
The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter. Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. With the Orthodox churches, this communion is so profound that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist. (CCC 838)

So, the Church teaches that Motar and cj44 may be saved because through no fault of their own they are ignorant of the Truth.
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whereas, it appears motar at least, feels that no one can be saved unless they accept Christ. Even if "ignorant of the truth".

Pope Francis on Nonbelievers : The New Yorker
 
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