During any icy age there are a lot less plants to consume CO2
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm
Reddit bans comments from global warming skeptics
- Thread starter Locutus
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Global Warmists like to point to the fact that, because Frost Fairs are no longer possible on the Thames, then that's proof of Global Warming.
In London it used to get so cold at winter that the Thames froze over. They used to hold Frost Fairs on the frozen river.
The first recorded frost fair was in 1608. A celebrated frost fair occurred in the winter of 1683–84 and was described by John Evelyn:
Coaches plied from Westminster to the Temple, and from several other stairs too and fro, as in the streets; sleds, sliding with skeetes, a bull-baiting, horse and coach races, puppet plays and interludes, cooks, tipling and other lewd places, so that it seemed to be a bacchanalian triumph, or carnival on the water.
The Frost Fair of 1683/84
For sixpence, the printer Croom sold souvenir cards written with the customer's name, the date, and the fact that the card was printed on the Thames, and was making five pounds a day (ten times a labourer's weekly wage). King Charles II bought one. The cold weather was not only a cause for merriment, as Evelyn explained:
The Frost Fair of 1683/84
The fowls, fish and birds, and all our exotic plants and greens universally perishing. Many parks of deer were destroyed, and all sorts of fuel so dear that there were great contributions to keep the poor alive...London, by reason for the excessive coldness of the air hindering the ascent of the smoke, was so filled with the fuliginous steam of the sea-coal ...that one could hardly breathe.
An eye-witness account of a severe frost of the 1680s:
On the 20th of December, 1688 [misprint for 1683], a very violent frost began, which lasted to the 6th of February, in so great extremity, that the pools were frozen 18 inches thick at least, and the Thames was so frozen that a great street from the Temple to Southwark was built with shops, and all manner of things sold. Hackney coaches plied there as in the streets. There were also bull-baiting, and a great many shows and tricks to be seen. This day the frost broke up. In the morning I saw a coach and six horses driven from Whitehall almost to the bridge (London Bridge) yet by three o'clock that day, February the 6th, next to Southwark the ice was gone, so as boats did row to and fro, and the next day all the frost was gone. On Candlemas Day I went to Croydon market, and led my horse over the ice to the Horseferry from Westminster to Lambeth; as I came back I led him from Lambeth upon the middle of the Thames to Whitefriars' stairs, and so led him up by them. And this day an ox was roasted whole, over against Whitehall. King Charles and the Queen ate part of it.
The last Frost Fair was in 1814. An elephant was led across the river below Blackfriars Bridge. A printer named "Davis" published a book, Frostiana; or a History of the River Thames in a Frozen State.
The 1814 Frost Fair on the Thames was the last
From 1400 into the 19th century, there were 24 winters in which the Thames was recorded to have frozen over at London; if "more or less frozen over" years (in parentheses) are included, the number is 26: 1408, 1435, 1506, 1514, 1537, 1565, 1595, 1608, 1621, 1635, 1649, 1655, 1663, 1666, 1677, 1684, 1695, 1709, 1716, 1740, (1768 ), 1776, (1785), 1788, 1795, and 1814.
The fact that it's no longer possible, unfortunately, to hold Frost Fairs on the Thames is often provided by Global Warmists as proof that Global Warming is real.
However, unfortunately for them, the Frost Fairs were held in a period of time known as the Little Ice Age. This was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum). This period ended in the mid-Nineteenth Century which resulted, of course, in a natural warming of the Earth's climate, as you would expect. This is just like how the earth naturally warms up after an Ice Age.
And the other reason why Frost Fairs are no longer possible is because old London Bridge was demolished in 1831. This had spanned the Thames since the 12th Century and eventually had buildings such as shops and houses built across it. It was an awe-insipiring sight. The old London Bridge was replaced by a new London Bridge with wider arches, allowing the tide to flow more freely; and the river was embanked in stages during the 19th century, all of which made the river less likely to freeze.
So, unfortunately for the Global Warmists, the fact that the Thames never freezes over sufficiently enough nowadays is no evidence whatsoever of man-made Global Warming.
The 1814 Frost Fair on the Thames was the last
From 1400 into the 19th century, there were 24 winters in which the Thames was recorded to have frozen over at London; if "more or less frozen over" years (in parentheses) are included, the number is 26: 1408, 1435, 1506, 1514, 1537, 1565, 1595, 1608, 1621, 1635, 1649, 1655, 1663, 1666, 1677, 1684, 1695, 1709, 1716, 1740, (1768 ), 1776, (1785), 1788, 1795, and 1814.
The fact that it's no longer possible, unfortunately, to hold Frost Fairs on the Thames is often provided by Global Warmists as proof that Global Warming is real.
However, unfortunately for them, the Frost Fairs were held in a period of time known as the Little Ice Age. This was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum). This period ended in the mid-Nineteenth Century which resulted, of course, in a natural warming of the Earth's climate, as you would expect. This is just like how the earth naturally warms up after an Ice Age.
And the other reason why Frost Fairs are no longer possible is because old London Bridge was demolished in 1831. This had spanned the Thames since the 12th Century and eventually had buildings such as shops and houses built across it. It was an awe-insipiring sight. The old London Bridge was replaced by a new London Bridge with wider arches, allowing the tide to flow more freely; and the river was embanked in stages during the 19th century, all of which made the river less likely to freeze.
So, unfortunately for the Global Warmists, the fact that the Thames never freezes over sufficiently enough nowadays is no evidence whatsoever of man-made Global Warming.
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Corellated to low solar output.Global Warmists like to point to the fact that, because Frost Fairs are no longer possible on the Thames, then that's proof of Global Warming.
In London it used to get so cold at winter that the Thames froze over. They used to hold Frost Fairs on the frozen river.
The first recorded frost fair was in 1608. A celebrated frost fair occurred in the winter of 1683–84 and was described by John Evelyn:
Coaches plied from Westminster to the Temple, and from several other stairs too and fro, as in the streets; sleds, sliding with skeetes, a bull-baiting, horse and coach races, puppet plays and interludes, cooks, tipling and other lewd places, so that it seemed to be a bacchanalian triumph, or carnival on the water.For sixpence, the printer Croom sold souvenir cards written with the customer's name, the date, and the fact that the card was printed on the Thames, and was making five pounds a day (ten times a labourer's weekly wage). King Charles II bought one. The cold weather was not only a cause for merriment, as Evelyn explained:
The fowls, fish and birds, and all our exotic plants and greens universally perishing. Many parks of deer were destroyed, and all sorts of fuel so dear that there were great contributions to keep the poor alive...London, by reason for the excessive coldness of the air hindering the ascent of the smoke, was so filled with the fuliginous steam of the sea-coal ...that one could hardly breath.An eye-witness account of a severe frost of the 1680s:
The Frost Fair of 1683/84
On the 20th of December, 1688 [misprint for 1683], a very violent frost began, which lasted to the 6th of February, in so great extremity, that the pools were frozen 18 inches thick at least, and the Thames was so frozen that a great street from the Temple to Southwark was built with shops, and all manner of things sold. Hackney coaches plied there as in the streets. There were also bull-baiting, and a great many shows and tricks to be seen. This day the frost broke up. In the morning I saw a coach and six horses driven from Whitehall almost to the bridge (London Bridge) yet by three o'clock that day, February the 6th, next to Southwark the ice was gone, so as boats did row to and fro, and the next day all the frost was gone. On Candlemas Day I went to Croydon market, and led my horse over the ice to the Horseferry from Westminster to Lambeth; as I came back I led him from Lambeth upon the middle of the Thames to Whitefriars' stairs, and so led him up by them. And this day an ox was roasted whole, over against Whitehall. King Charles and the Queen ate part of it.
The last Frost Fair was in 1814. An elephant was led across the river below Blackfriars Bridge. A printer named "Davis" published a book, Frostiana; or a History of the River Thames in a Frozen State.
The 1814 Frost Fair on the Thames was the last
From 1400 into the 19th century, there were 24 winters in which the Thames was recorded to have frozen over at London; if "more or less frozen over" years (in parentheses) are included, the number is 26: 1408, 1435, 1506, 1514, 1537, 1565, 1595, 1608, 1621, 1635, 1649, 1655, 1663, 1666, 1677, 1684, 1695, 1709, 1716, 1740, (1768), 1776, (1785), 1788, 1795, and 1814.
The fact that it's no longer possible, unfortunately, to hold Frost Fairs on the Thames is often provided by Global Warmists as proof that Global Warming is real.
However, unfortunately for them, the Frost Fairs were held in a period of time known as the Little Ice Age. This was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum). This period ended in the mid-Nineteenth Century which resulted, of course, in a natural warming of the Earth's climate, as you would expect. This is just like how the earth naturally warms up after an Ice Age.
And the other reason why Frost Fairs are no longer possible is because old London Bridge was demolished in 1831. this had spanned the Thames since the 12th Century and eventually had buildings such as shops and houses built across it. It was an awe-insipiring sight. The old London Bridge was replaced by a new London Bridge with wider arches, allowing the tide to flow more freely; and the river was embanked in stages during the 19th century, all of which made the river less likely to freeze.
So, unfortunately for the Global Warmists, the fact that the Thames never freezes over sufficiently enough nowadays is no evidence whatsoever of man-made Global Warming.
The recorded temps would be the data that would be used and Naval Almanacs would have that data regardless of the river being iced over or not. Being able to grow grapes would be a welcomed change so 'global warming' is a thing to be desired rather than feared no matter what the cause. (with the understanding that anything man tries on large or small scales usually back-fires)
Solar insolation was high due to orbital precession, and there were large changes in albedo in the Northern Hemisphere. The greenhouse gas concentration ranged between 250-300 ppm. You're arguing against a strawman. Nobody here suggested the Eemian involved human activities as a cause.
If Global Warming is what has caused the total vineyard area in England to increase by 75% since 2004, and has caused English wine production to jump from 1.34 million bottles in 2008 to 3.17 million bottles in 2009, and has allowed England to produce sparkling wines which are even better than their French counterparts (the English, not the French, invented Champagne) and which have won global awards, then I'm all for Global Warming. And if Global Warming does exist, then it'll soon become TOO hot in France for them to grow wine grapes, so England will eventually overtake the almost 400 million bottles of wine produced in the Champagne region of Froggyland alone.
But I just think Global Warming is a load of old tosh. Any warming going on - if there is any - is natural.
One of the 400 or so vineyards in England and Wales
In 2010, experts hailed England's Nyetimber Classic Cuvée 2003, made in Sussex, as the best bubbly on the planet. Needless to say, our onion-wearing southern neighbours weren't happy
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What strawman Dorothy? Are we're not in an interglacial period? Would it not be necessity to compare our interglacial period to the past 3 which we are able to study in ice cores. All 3 ended with temp and CO2 spikes followed by a rapid dive into glaciation. We are now in a peak and a crash is coming just like the last 20 interglacial periods over the past 2 Million years going by the sedimentary cores.
Monsanto wine, yummy. How about an almanac of the actual temps day by day from that past era instead? You know it's available in some easily accessed spot.
Are you hinting that global warming happened in just one year? Perhaps they took a page from Canada.
Canadian Ice Wine and Wines
Define 'rapid dive', 100 or 10,000 years?
How much coal was being burned yearly in the industrial age (whil ignoring the abuse the workers suffered at the hands of the owners of the industrial companies. You are also skating (pun intended) around getting the actual temperatures. The ones that show rises in North America were installed in pastures at the beginning and they are now surrounded by many square miles of concrete and asphalt so that is why their records show a slight rise over 100 years or so. Being able to throw snowballs for 7 months of the year compared to 5 months is not a real good sign of a warming trend. Know what I mean?
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/last_500_yrs.html
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/temp_vs_CO2.html
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Ok, play dumb then scare crow.
Yes, we sure are.
Indeed it is. Glad to see you're coming around finally. My emphasis bolded.
Yep. Now if you could only realize the difference between now and the past three, you'd be onto something. By necessity compare...
See, you skip over the comparison part and end up with an illogical conclusion. All you did was look at what was common in the last three. We are nowhere near a local solar insolation maximum. The orbital precession isn't even close to what it was during those interglacials. In fact the only forcing that has changed significantly has been the greenhouse forcing.
So any attempts to say we're headed for the same crash into glaciation after the orbital mechanics swing in the other direction is plain rubbish.
Next time you suggest the comparison, try actually comparing. :roll:
What some stuff to read?
Petit et al. (1999) Vostock ice core: "the warmest temperature at stage 7.5 [238,000 years ago] was slightly warmer than the Holocene [the current interglacial]."
Watanabe et al., 2003 Dome Fuji ice core on the previous 3 interglacial events: "were much warmer than the most recent 1,000 years (~4.5°C for stage 5.5 and up to 6°C for stage 9.3)."
Herbert et al. (2001) (SST) data set 550,000-year sea surface temperature: "the previous interglacial (isotope stage 5e) produced surface waters several degrees warmer than today," such that "waters as warm as those now at Santa Barbara occurred along the Oregon margin."
The Tin Man did it. Smelting with coke and such.
And all of those get a big, so what? None of these tell us anything about the changes happening now. They simply provide the context, and the observations on which projections from our current climate change are based.
I notice you're still actually avoiding the comparison of then and now. :lol:
I notice you're still actually avoiding the comparison of then and now. :lol:
The changes now happened in the past without anthropogenic input. What will the outcome be? Glaciation.