College Women: Stop Getting Drunk

[gerryh]

Even more asinine than calling me a liar. Which act do you refer to? That she can't remember? That isn't an act. Or are you referring to her being drugged against her will? Which would be the act of another.

here are your own words

Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

The point I make here is just because she can't remember saying yes doesn't make it rape. In fact if she can't remember it might be rape but it can't and shouldn't be prosecuted unless there is evidence she was drugged against her will.​

If she can't remember, then she was beyond the point of being able to give consent. That makes it rape. You, however seem to enjoy wanting to give the guy an out by saying that if she was that far gone and she can't remember, then it isn't rape.

​

You are small minded G. Fortunately your chauvinism and black & white view of the world would be sniffed out easily and you would never sit on a jury.

Thank you, prefer that than someone that supports rape.

 

[karrie]

I haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. You didn't bother posting the text you say offends. It is hilarious when somebody presuming to lecture makes the mistake they are lecturing about.



No, I never said that rape isn't rape. I said that every time a woman who has sex is drunk it isn't rape. There is a significant difference between what you are suggesting and what I said. You are trying to dramatize a situation with a misandrist slant. I am trying to reduce the misandry that you are exploiting.



"Your position" is not what this thread is necessarily about. We all know what you are saying and everybody agrees. Why keep ranting? By continuing to rant it quickly becomes misandrist (misandrist - definition of misandrist by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.) - something I dislike as much as you dislike misogyny. Because of the rising misandrist content I chose to deflate it.

I cited the post for you twice now.... post 70.

As for it being misandrist, what exactly is misandrist about this discussion?

 

[tober]

And what's so sad about being dominating, strong and powerful?

A place for everything and everything in its place. A person speaking to an audience should dominate in the sense that they should be heard and understood. A person who tries to dominate a group to satisfy his ego is boring and often threatening. When I see somebody trying to dominate, unless it is very appropriate I think "bully" or perhaps loudmouth.

Are you some kind of feminist?

Ask Karrie.

 

[Angstrom]

If she can't remember, then she was beyond the point of being able to give consent. That makes it rape.

Maybe not in all cases.

In some cases the individual was conscious, at the time. Gave consent. But no longer remembers the next day.

 

[petros]

I don't know how but this thread got even more pathetic.

 

[gerryh]

I cited the post for you twice now.... post 70.

As for it being misandrist, what exactly is misandrist about this discussion?

forget it Karrie, he's an idiot. Has been an idiot from almost his first post.

 

[tober]

I cited the post for you twice now.... post 70.

I didn't do what you are suggesting but it isn't important enough to linger.

As for it being misandrist, what exactly is misandrist about this discussion?

If you can't see misandry in a discussion about men who use booze to rape, I can only presume you are too misandrist. Like I said, we all agree.

I've been sitting here too long. I'm going out for an hour. My back is sore and my mind is foggy ("er" than usual). I'm not running away.

 

[PoliticalNick]

The fact that she can't remember doesn't mean she has no right to have it investigated, no matter why she can't remember.

How do you think that would go K?
cop: what do you remember miss?
girl: nothing
cop: were you drinking or doing drugs
girl: yes, I was really drunk
cop: sorry, we can't help you, have a nice day miss

or maybe they go to the guy and...
cop: did you have sex with (girl)
boy: yes
cop: she says you raped her
boy: she was totally drunk and she was all over me and never said no
cop: ok, thanks, have a nice day sir.

What do you really think will happen if the only thing she can say on the stand is 'I don't remember'. No prosecutor is taking that to trial without evidence she was drugged or fed liquor against her will.

If she can't remember, then she was beyond the point of being able to give consent. That makes it rape. You, however seem to enjoy wanting to give the guy an out by saying that if she was that far gone and she can't remember, then it isn't rape.

​

Ever met a black-out drunk? I have known a couple. They seem a bit drunk, sometimes really drunk but not comatose or falling down etc. I had one buddy you would have thought had 1 or 2 drinks but would be sh*t-faced and not remember a thing. I have seen women who can hardly stand trying to undress a guy and grab at his d*ck. It ain't black & white. It is situational and in most cases if she cannot remember he will get away with it even if it was rape. That is how our law works...beyond a reasonable doubt.

Thank you, prefer that than someone that supports rape.

I don't support rape. I support the law. The law says beyond a reasonable doubt and if she can't remember there is lots of doubt.

You have a bad habit of attacking people with a different point of view calling them murderers or rapists. One day you will do that in the wrong situation and be glad you have medical insurance.

 

[gerryh]

You have a bad habit of attacking people with a different point of view calling them murderers or rapists. One day you will do that in the wrong situation and be glad you have medical insurance.

and one day you will make your empty threat like above, and find out it wasn't such a good idea.

 

[karrie]

I didn't do what you are suggesting but it isn't important enough to linger.

I will walk you through it.

In post number 70 of this thread (yes, they're numbered, look, you'll find it), you quoted Gerry, and then put your words in his quote, somewhat like this.....

I didn't do what you are suggesting but it isn't important enough to linger. And I'm too lazy to inform myself of proper forum etiquette.

If you can't see misandry in a discussion about men who use booze to rape, I can only presume you are too misandrist. Like I said, we all agree.

I've been sitting here too long. I'm going out for an hour. My back is sore and my mind is foggy ("er" than usual). I'm not running away.

I do not see how men who rape reflect on all men, no. It seems to me that if you want to try to imply that men who rape means all men, then you're the one being sexist and hateful toward men. At no point in time were we discussing men as an entire group.

 

[tober]

I will walk you through it.

In post number 70 of this thread (yes, they're numbered, look, you'll find it), you quoted Gerry, and then put your words in his quote, somewhat like this.....

Yes, I see it now. Apologies to all concerned. I think I'm having computer issues. Since I got home I have gone to the bottom of this page three times and seen two different last posts. My screen does not always show the same screen content.

 

[PoliticalNick]

and one day you will make your empty threat like above, and find out it wasn't such a good idea.

Not a threat. You would know if it was. It was a warning that your mouth and attitude will cause you grief if you use them on the wrong person.

Now if you are trying to intimidate me with your post have at it. Come on by my place and say what you want to my face and see what happens. Your welcome anytime.

 

[tober]

I do not see how men who rape reflect on all men, no. It seems to me that if you want to try to imply that men who rape means all men, then you're the one being sexist and hateful toward men. At no point in time were we discussing men as an entire group.

In years gone by there were many old "sexist" expressions that men as a rule did not feel were derogatory to all women. We viewed them as simple humour, established truths, personal opinions or what-have-you. "Dumb women" was a stereotype. Feminists spoke out at first. Then all women started speaking out. Little by little an entire category of expressions came into disuse because women felt offended. Like many things political it was not so much a case of analyzing the words and testing them for proof, it was a general feeling by women that the words singled them out or lacked due respect. Now women regularly tell male jokes or make derogatory expressions for which they would castigate men.

It’s time to start recognizing that it’s a two-way street. Equality means you too. Or me too, whatever. Let's read the first paragraph of the quote in the OP.

SEXUAL ASSAULT PREVENTION ADVICE FROM EMILY YOFFE: College Women: Stop Getting Drunk: It’s closely associated with sexual assault. And yet we’re reluctant to tell women to stop doing it. Of course, the men are often drunk, too. But when a drunk woman couples with a drunk man, the drunk man is somehow still responsible, while the woman is a victim, because she’s drunk. “Educating students about rape, teaching them that by definition a very drunk woman can’t consent to sex, is crucial.” Double standard much?...

​

The topic starts out by saying that women get drunk too but men keep getting all the blame, but by the time we get to page 5 you write that the topic is all about raped women? How did that happen? Is the original topic too politically incorrect for you? "Blame men" can be just as much of a stereotype as "dumb women". Is it rape when an unconscious woman is subjected to sex by a man? Of course. Everybody agreed. But the topic started out discussing how women don't seem to share equally in social responsibility for drinking to excess. Men were discussing the issue, raising issues like the threshold for when blame should be shared. Your response was outrage - how dare we belittle raped womanhood? Is that misandrist? Yes, IMO. It tries to take away from men the topic in the OP and force the issue onto "men rape" instead of where it started, "shared gender responsibility for excess drinking". “Men rape”, in my opinion, is misandrist the same way that dumb women jokes were misogynist, especially when it persists like this thread has.

in other words, the professed double standard (by others, not you) isn't a double standard.

Do you not see evidence of a double standard in the first paragraph of the OP?

Considering that this thread is about the topic of women being raped, I can't help but feel that you are the one ignoring parts that don't fit rants, seeing as how you continue to suggest that they're not rapes.

See? Here is what I meant. You insist that "this thread is about the topic of women being raped." It is not. It is about a gender double standard that disadvantages men and men are discussing it. You want to re-direct the topic to one of how men rape women, when in fact the question asserts a gender double standard in the issue of blame. Everyone is agreed that the totally unconscious woman is a rape victim. That's not up for question, it's agreed. You want to pressure posters off the topic to a point that isn't even under dispute.

 

[gerryh]

Not a threat. You would know if it was. It was a warning that your mouth and attitude will cause you grief if you use them on the wrong person.

Now if you are trying to intimidate me with your post have at it. Come on by my place and say what you want to my face and see what happens. Your welcome anytime.

another one......:roll:

 

[tober]

another one......:roll:

Are you and Colpy twins?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Are you and Colpy twins?

No. Colpy is more apt to argue the law as it is in the books whereas Gerry argues his personal beliefs should be the law. I may not always agree with Colpy but I do respect him....Gerry on tbe other hand....

 

[SLM]

Oh I'm fully aware, because I actually looked.

Yes I figured but I was betting it would take a lot more than a subtle suggestion of a misquote to get through that thick head.

Poor Gerry. Sorry Gerry, not true. You copied and pasted my post that was chucking sh!t, probably at you, although I'm not interested in going back and checking. Are you a Geraldine or a Gerald?

And, as it turns out, I was right!

post 70. Only a small man would pretend he never made a mistake.

I long ago gave up the benefit of the doubt that he was anything but.

 

[karrie]

In years gone by there were many old "sexist" expressions that men as a rule did not feel were derogatory to all women. We viewed them as simple humour, established truths, personal opinions or what-have-you. "Dumb women" was a stereotype. Feminists spoke out at first. Then all women started speaking out. Little by little an entire category of expressions came into disuse because women felt offended. Like many things political it was not so much a case of analyzing the words and testing them for proof, it was a general feeling by women that the words singled them out or lacked due respect. Now women regularly tell male jokes or make derogatory expressions for which they would castigate men.

It’s time to start recognizing that it’s a two-way street. Equality means you too. Or me too, whatever. Let's read the first paragraph of the quote in the OP.

SEXUAL ASSAULT PREVENTION ADVICE FROM EMILY YOFFE: College Women: Stop Getting Drunk: It’s closely associated with sexual assault. And yet we’re reluctant to tell women to stop doing it. Of course, the men are often drunk, too. But when a drunk woman couples with a drunk man, the drunk man is somehow still responsible, while the woman is a victim, because she’s drunk. “Educating students about rape, teaching them that by definition a very drunk woman can’t consent to sex, is crucial.” Double standard much?...


​

The topic starts out by saying that women get drunk too but men keep getting all the blame, but by the time we get to page 5 you write that the topic is all about raped women? How did that happen? Is the original topic too politically incorrect for you? "Blame men" can be just as much of a stereotype as "dumb women". Is it rape when an unconscious woman is subjected to sex by a man? Of course. Everybody agreed. But the topic started out discussing how women don't seem to share equally in social responsibility for drinking to excess. Men were discussing the issue, raising issues like the threshold for when blame should be shared. Your response was outrage - how dare we belittle raped womanhood? Is that misandrist? Yes, IMO. It tries to take away from men the topic in the OP and force the issue onto "men rape" instead of where it started, "shared gender responsibility for excess drinking". “Men rape”, in my opinion, is misandrist the same way that dumb women jokes were misogynist, especially when it persists like this thread has.





Do you not see evidence of a double standard in the first paragraph of the OP?



See? Here is what I meant. You insist that "this thread is about the topic of women being raped." It is not. It is about a gender double standard that disadvantages men and men are discussing it. You want to re-direct the topic to one of how men rape women, when in fact the question asserts a gender double standard in the issue of blame. Everyone is agreed that the totally unconscious woman is a rape victim. That's not up for question, it's agreed. You want to pressure posters off the topic to a point that isn't even under dispute.

The fact that the OP makes the same knee jerk reaction about the article doesn't disprove my point.

And no, it's not a double standard. Men who suspect they have been violated in some manner can also report it to the police.

 

[Blackleaf]

The best way to get laid is to learn to cook, vacuum and use a washer/dryer/iron.

I don't do anything of those things. I just get a woman to do them for me, even if it means paying the minimum wage to some 18-year-old, big-breasted, blonde bimbo to do them for me. I'm a man and I don't do women's jobs.

 

[SLM]

I don't do anything of those things. I just get a woman to do them for me. I'm a man and I don't do women's jobs.

LMAO. Textbook. Absolutely textbook. It's amazing.