Vietnam - Did America Win All the Battles?

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
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America especially. Sucks, eh? As world pariah y'all're already marginalized. Does it make y'all feel inadequate and want to call strangers names for differing with y'all?

If y'all're red state educated lemme make summit clear. "Marginalized" don't mean the same thang as "margarineized." Margarine's what y'all put on yer toast n' call butter.

The demise of the United States of America is a good thing. What do you think the impact will be on Canada?

An American I read on a site some years back, who claimed to be a big wheel in government, claimed differently. "Domino effect" was for public consumption so that Ma and Pa Kettle wouldn't know what was really intended for their kids. The real reason (he claimed) was the same war of attrition that was used by the Reagan Administration and Star Wars. The intention was to outspend the various communist nations with constant war. Dead sons in the late 1960's were part of a long range plan to just keep war going in the hopes of outspending the enemy. It sounded to me more like war to keep American industry busy, but everybody's entitled to their own opinion on that issue.

Let's see the link or you're a liar.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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kelowna bc
We do not want to see America destroyed that would not be good for
enlightened societies worldwide. America has a lot warts that is true
but its still a hell of a lot better than most of the rest that would take
her place. Can you imagine turning the world over to the madness of
the Muslim world. Or how about the Chinese they has no ethics at all.
No America did not win all the battles and they did not win the war.
Then again winning the war was not the object of the exercise it was to
keep the war going for as long as possible and it backfired.
 

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
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We do not want to see America destroyed that would not be good for
enlightened societies worldwide...

You don't always get what you want.

In many ways the problem for America is that there is no longer any unifying principle to which all Americans subscribe.

Each side in America views the other side as mortal enemies far more threatening than any remote foreign power or group.

There can be no peace until one side or the other destroys its internal enemies...or until the wheels come off Uncle Sam's bus...whichever first occurs.
 

tober

Time Out
Aug 6, 2013
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Let's see the link or you're a liar.

4Q2WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW




There can be no peace until one side or the other destroys its internal enemies...or until the wheels come off Uncle Sam's bus...whichever first occurs.

Look at US and Canadian constitutional expressions of value.

America's is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It has created an ideology people like to describe as "individualistic". The problem is there is no restraint on it, no check or balance, so when money and influence want to express their individuality at the expense of no money and influence, people suffer.

In Canada our constitutional interpretation stresses peace, order and good government. The expression contains safeguards. If you have peace, your threat level is less. If you have order, life is more predictable. If you have good government, you don't necessarily have to fear it.

The two cultures are different, and arguably our constitutional mottos reflect some of that difference.

 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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The Vietnam War was not a winner because the majority of Vietnamese citizens
did not support the South's government they supported the communist north.
It was only a matter of time before the North came to unite the country.
Are you sure of that statement ? Have you discussed the Veitnam situation with any of the many Veitnamese immigrants to
N.america ?The Veitnamese community are building a museum in Ottawant You better visit to see what the Vietnamese think.
 

Sons of Liberty

Walks on Water
Aug 24, 2010
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You don't always get what you want.

I agree, for example you will never get to see America fall and burn.

In many ways the problem for America is that there is no longer any unifying principle to which all Americans subscribe.

In politics perhaps you are right, I think the politicians need to be dragged out of Congress and hung. They have lost their way, they stopped being Americans and are just party hacks. The People have no bone to pick with each other, not from where I sit anyway.

Each side in America views the other side as mortal enemies far more threatening than any remote foreign power or group.

Don't be so extreme, much of what goes on is media hype.

There can be no peace until one side or the other destroys its internal enemies...or until the wheels come off Uncle Sam's bus...whichever first occurs.

It may be time for another revolution.
 

tober

Time Out
Aug 6, 2013
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Are you sure of that statement ? Have you discussed the Veitnam situation with any of the many Veitnamese immigrants to N.america ?The Veitnamese community are building a museum in Ottawant You better visit to see what the Vietnamese think.

There is no question but that Vietnam as a whole wanted unification under the north. The fact that some refugees want a museum isn't unreasonable, but don't get too carried away. History is pretty clear on the reality you are rejecting.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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There is no question but that Vietnam as a whole wanted unification under the north.
Ok, I have no expectations other than the fact that your fear of me will prevent you from answering this request, but I would love to see you back that up.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
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Ok, I have no expectations other than the fact that your fear of me will prevent you from answering this request, but I would love to see you back that up.

Yes it's very questionable the lengths I keep seeing in avoiding a protracted dialogue with you. It's almost as if he knows you, which would of course be odd since you've been away for months.

And he certainly seems very adamant that he knows everything, so one would assume that he'd be able to back up his statements.

Remind me now, who was it that used to demonstrate his "proof" with 'well, everybody knows that'?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
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Ontario
And he certainly seems very adamant that he knows everything, so one would assume that he'd be able to back up his statements.
So you would think, but here we are.

Should I ask him about tanks on the Quebec borders?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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There is no question but that Vietnam as a whole wanted unification under the north. The fact that some refugees want a museum isn't unreasonable, but don't get too carried away. History is pretty clear on the reality you are rejecting.
Most Vietnamese wanted to be left alone to live their live. It is easy to support someone holding a gun to your head.
Which is exactly what was done to the peasant farmers. The south did not want communism. And furthermore they still don't.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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There is no question but that Vietnam as a whole wanted unification under the north. The fact that some refugees want a museum isn't unreasonable, but don't get too carried away. History is pretty clear on the reality you are rejecting.

That is simply untrue.

Hundreds of thousands fled the North in 1954. By some estimates over a million. Imagine how eager they were for the North to win. After a century of French domination, Vietnam was over 10% Catholic, and dead set against Ho Chi Minh.

After the 1968 Tet Offensive, the revolutionary corps (the Viet Cong) practically ceased to exist...........the US negotiated, and South Vietnam lost the war to North Vietnam.....not revolution.
 

tober

Time Out
Aug 6, 2013
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Most Vietnamese wanted to be left alone to live their live. It is easy to support someone holding a gun to your head.
Which is exactly what was done to the peasant farmers. The south did not want communism. And furthermore they still don't.

Everybody everywhere complains about the government of the day. What they did want and have now is a Vietnamese government. Not French, not Japanese, not US and not Chinese. What they probably don't want is US style government.

Hundreds of thousands fled the North in 1954. By some estimates over a million. Imagine how eager they were for the North to win. After a century of French domination, Vietnam was over 10% Catholic, and dead set against Ho Chi Minh.

Refugees happen in civil wars. We're talking about the 1970's, not 1954. From the perspective of the ephemeral concept of "self determine" perhaps many people did want something other than what they got. The same thing happens here. What most of them did have in common was a desire for a Vietnamese government, not a western puppet regime.

After the 1968 Tet Offensive, the revolutionary corps (the Viet Cong) practically ceased to exist...........the US negotiated, and South Vietnam lost the war to North Vietnam.....not revolution.

Those three factors are nearly incontrovertible. But North Vietnam finished the revolution in its favour. It was one of the sides in the revolution and it won, so I don't know what else we can call it but a successful revolution. The Vietnam War was never between two historically sovereign states. But what does that mean? In my opinion it does not mean that most South Vietnamese wanted a continued puppet government managed from the west. They wanted a Vietnamese government. If the west had not tried to turn the Vietnamese back over to the French after the war against the will of the Vietnamese, a regime friendly to western powers might have resulted. We'll never know, because the west betrayed the Vietnamese in favour of the French instead.
 
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