Sal - I listen to no human as to who or what is correct. My point was that between Cliffy & myself or any others opinion no one can "prove" which is the absolute truth. I am confident based on historical & archeological evidences that the Bible is not some piece of junk manufactured by charlatans. As far as correctness goes, when Jesus returns all will come to an agreement in opinoin.
Faith Alone or and something...
- Thread starter cj44
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I totally agree with this point.
IF Jesus ever was what you believe him to be and therefore if he returns. Muslims and Jews and most of the world may have a problem with your belief here.
If he does return we will be long long dead.
Cliffy, I know not the God in which you speak. You have the weight of the law on your soul. The Law is used to bring us to Christ. "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day."
I have no problem with the beliefs of others. Everyone is FREE to believe as they choose and should suffer no malice because of their beliefs. My Jewish friend is free to tell me to stick it in my ear when I talk about the return of Jesus. I am not offended.
Well, yes and no. A lot of the bible evidence was assembled by well meaning folk who went out with
'scripture in one hand, spade in the other'.
For instance, the supposed 'palaces of Solomon in Northern Israel have been redacted to theh Omri dynasty, who the bible is usually - Die Nasty about, as they reverted to polytheism.
Except, if you read about Jezebel's palaces, you realise that the places of wicked romance must have been built by someone...
Awooo Jezebel....it was you...
Unfortunately, not everyone is really free to believe as they want in many many parts of the world. Here we are luckier than most. As for your Jewish friend I would hope that you have enough respect for their belief system that Jesus is not a topic brought forth often.
If Jesus exists like the bible says he does, many people are going to get a huge shock about what he feels is acceptable Christian behaviour.
And "evidences" will morph over the centuries. What is evidence today may not be in 1000 years and what isn't evidence today may be in 100 years. I don't need the shroud of turin or a piece of the 10 commandment tablets to believe/have faith. When the Holy Spirit descends, you know it. And then, yes check the experience with Scripture. Don't rely soley on the winged buzzard that whisked you off to Titan in one of a "spiritual moment".Well, yes and no. A lot of the bible evidence was assembled by well meaning folk who went out with
'scripture in one hand, spade in the other'.
For instance, the supposed 'palaces of Solomon in Northern Israel have been redacted to theh Omri dynasty, who the bible is usually - Die Nasty about, as they reverted to polytheism.
Except, if you read about Jezebel's palaces, you realise that the places of wicked romance must have been built by someone...
Awooo Jezebel....it was you...
Mutual discussion takes place. I don't grab him by the collar and demand the brother believe in Jesus. Ok. So maybe I slap him in the chops with the Bible now and then. Yes. Here you speak a real truth. The number one reason why more people do NOT convert to Christianity is because of Christians. No lie, we act like real morons on occassion. Hopefully, most remember to repent and ask forgiveness & then try to do better.
all one needs to do to know if the winged buzzard is the one to follow is to examine one's own behaviour...had Joseph Smith done so he would have known something was amiss. All one ever has to do is to watch another's behaviour and it is quickly evident as to who is balanced and of the light.
even that is biblical if one needs assurance
Also the slap him in the chops is funny...ya likely have a good relationship.
As for repentance, asking forgiveness and changing behaviour, that's a tough one...I don't think many like that approach funnily enough. lol
Takes actual thought and effort.
As for repentance, asking forgiveness and changing behaviour, that's a tough one...I don't think many like that approach funnily enough. lol
Takes actual thought and effort.
Vlad on the winged buzzard is hysterical. Thanks for the laugh.That was Vlad Putin. Not me.
True, but since we are all at times unbalanced, it makes for an interesting stew. I am at my best when suffering a near combustable fever. Indeed, when I am in a coma I am at my finest. It is only when I am talking or writing that I get myself into trouble.
Well Gopher, I jot that down for my evening prayers.
You may want to read the Catholic New advent Encyclopedia entry on Mormons. for 1911, its rather enlightened. and on line.
In every stake are institutions known as auxiliaries, such as relief societies, sabbathschools, young men's and young ladies' mutual improvement associations, primary associations, and religious classes. The Relief Society is a woman's organization, having a special mission for the relief of the destitute and the care of the sick. An "Old Folks committee" is appointed to care for the aged. The Churchschool system comprises the Brigham Young University at Provo, the Brigham Young College at Logan, and the Latter-Day Saints University at Salt lake City. There are also nearly a score of stake academies. There are four Mormon temples in Utah, the principal one being at Salt Lake City. It was begun in April, 1853, and completed in April, 1893, costing, it is said, about $4,000,000. In these temples ordinances are administered both for the living and the dead. It is held that vicarious work of this character, such as baptisms, endowments etc., will be effectual in saving souls, once mortal, who believe and repent in the spiritual state. The Mormons claim a total membership of 584,000. [Note: As of 2005, this number stood at 11 million.] According to the United States Census Report of 21 May 1910, there are 256,647 Mormons within the Federal Union.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Mormonism
Take humanity as one group and divide them into two groups, the smallest group would be those that qualify for Re:20:4, being alive for the 1,000 years. The larger group comes alive at judgment day and using the right verses that means judgment Day is 1,000 years long.
1,000 years x 360 days x24 hours x 60 minutes / number who come alive at the GWT = introduction time limit. 0.0589090909090909 minutes, it will probably seem like a longer time when a person is right there. (I had it as couples so the time is 1/2, this for each person) 6.66B people and 1/3 live so 2/3 die or 4.4B and that is the number that will be before God at the GWT so that many need to be interviewed by God alone and time for that 'day' can be given in minutes.
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Hunboldt: Not sure what your point is. Yes, Mormonism is an institution & has various "departments" within its organization. In my opinion they are a cult as they deny the Deity of Christ & they require membership in order to attain salvation. They adhere to the Book of Mormon which they claim is the Word of God. They also claim to adhere to the Bible. This is quite a feat, as the Book of Mormon and the Bible are in opposition to each other. Again, if anyone reads both books with the most basic reading comprehension skills, it would be determined that the messages of each are incompatible. I believe Joseph Smith was set up by Satan and witnessed a most fantastic sight. He erred in not holding his experience up to the light of Scripture.
MHZ: I appreciate your effort in calculating the details. I think Jesus may very well mess with time on that great day. Bet the clock doesn't hold him hostage.
If you believe that SATAN runs the Mormon Faith we have nothing to discuss. And I am not a Mormon.
What I believe, based on reading both the Bible and Book of Mormon, is that those books are in opposition to each other and yet the Mormons (with whom I am acquainted and often have discussion with) insist both books work together in harmony. This notion creates a debacle and eliminates the possibility of any serious debate.
So, yes or no- do you believe that SATAN inspired the Mormon Faith?
you made the claim
No wish washy. For what its worth- Call it.