Atheism a creed that needs the same religious protections of Christianity and Islam:

hunboldt

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Or you can exercise the "tap dance and run away" option. That's very popular hereabouts.


Belief runs in 'cycles'. There was an upsurge in agnosticism in the 300's, in the Roman empire, as the newly 'top dog' Church of Christ became more militant and repressive.

the various Gnostic churches based in Alexandria were rather cruelly repressed. Unfortunate, as a lot of the early material on Jesus was destroyed.

Although research into the old testament was rudimentary, the intellectual community of the Roman empire was aware of the vast incongruity between the early history of the old testament and the observable facts.
 

hunboldt

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the burden of proof lies in the those that claim god exists.

this unhampered with photo of mine>..
 

taxslave

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Nobody should 'have to prove' diddly squat to anybody else about what they believe, unless they are trying to force someone else to agree with them.

This is where the problems always begin. Some religious people tend to insist that everyone MUST follow their dogma. While I fully support anyones right to go pray to what ever they want and abide by whatever foolish rules their cult believes I do not want their beliefs forced on me and mine.
 

Spade

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No, I am sure you are right. I recall studying the ancient Greeks and their gods. I am certain the teacher did not deny their existence.
 

captain morgan

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I said incidentally, not accidentally, different ideas entirely, means it was a minor feature of the system, not a defining one and not the main motivator.


That's kinda like saying the deaths associated with religious-based aggression were primarily 'incidental'... Not a terribly convincing statement, is it?

Mind you, your entire comment is based on speculation all the same
 

karrie

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Perhaps you would define atheism before I answer.

Answer what exactly? Why should I define atheism? I need to define it to stand up for a person's right to label themselves atheist without 'defending' it?
 

Spade

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Karrie, of course a student should be given the freedom to define himself as a theist or atheist without repercussions in publicly-funded schools. We agree again.
 

hunboldt

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Karrie, of course a student should be given the freedom to define himself as a theist or atheist without repercussions in publicly-funded schools. We agree again.


While I went to high School in the 1970's, even in those dark ages Religion was a separate class for RC's, that the Protestant kids & 'all brands of others' could opt out of.

Its hard to conjecture anyone under 18 being an "atheist'- 'agnostic' is certainly possible. Society is pretty much 'secular'.

That said, Christian principles are rather worm into the warp and woof of society.
 

Dexter Sinister

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That's kinda like saying the deaths associated with religious-based aggression were primarily 'incidental'...
No, it's nothing at all like saying that, you haven't the slightest idea what's going on in this conversation. The deaths associated with religiously-based aggression, like the Inquisition, the Crusades, the centuries of Catholics versus Protestants wars that convulsed Europe in the past, and more recently religiously motivated terrorism, were directly and explicitly justified on religious grounds. The deaths that lie at the feet of communism were not justified on atheist grounds, they were people the various thugs in charge perceived as threats, or just didn't like, atheism had nothing to do with it. Atheism is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for behaving badly. Religion is not a necessary condition, but it's often sufficient.

No, I wasn't discussing gods when you first quoted me. I was discussing belief systems, atheism specifically.
Aw, not that one again. Atheism is not a belief system, it's a rejection of a particular one.
 

Omicron

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Belief runs in 'cycles'. There was an upsurge in agnosticism in the 300's, in the Roman empire, as the newly 'top dog' Church of Christ became more militant and repressive.

the various Gnostic churches based in Alexandria were rather cruelly repressed. Unfortunate, as a lot of the early material on Jesus was destroyed.

Although research into the old testament was rudimentary, the intellectual community of the Roman empire was aware of the vast incongruity between the early history of the old testament and the observable facts.

http://stuff.digitalock.com/ringoffire.mp3

You're reminding me of when they killed that woman who understood classical science. Her death marked the end of the classical age and opened to the dark age.

Indeed... but they didn't have the social-psychological research available today.

http://stuff.digitalock.com/raggletagglegypsio_dancemix.mp3

My bet is people then became so neurotic trying to figure out how to function in city-empire sized organizations when their genetic nature was to operate as hunter-gatherer tribes maxing out at 300 couples such that they'd split and form new tribes if it got bigger than that, like Hutterites do today, in order to avoid tyrany and brainwashing.

http://stuff.digitalock.com/princeigor.mp3

They did not have the advantage of Rockefeller paid-back-by-virtue-of-Christian-social-standards research like we do now. Capitalism feeds back onto itself to build up a single entity owning everything, which could be a corporation with shares owned by everyone.

Back then, "Follow the Money" meant Barons and Dukesters conquering territories in order to increase tax revenue, with the Church regulating.

Now it's Bond Holders taking on Stock Investors, with the SEC regulating.

So... we're a bunch of a*hole conquerers, such that God and His first great mistake Lucifer are slamming heads over which way we can be droned into fighting for who, when the answer from this bunch of dust-puppies is we want to live where we are happy.

"My Father's house had many rooms".

I want to be in the one with Rocky Mountains with clear streams and lots of trees so it's not hurting anything to take branches and make a fire.

No, it's nothing at all like saying that, you haven't the slightest idea what's going on in this conversation. The deaths associated with religiously-based aggression, like the Inquisition, the Crusades, the centuries of Catholics versus Protestants wars that convulsed Europe in the past, and more recently religiously motivated terrorism, were directly and explicitly justified on religious grounds. The deaths that lie at the feet of communism were not justified on atheist grounds, they were people the various thugs in charge perceived as threats, or just didn't like, atheism had nothing to do with it. Atheism is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for behaving badly. Religion is not a necessary condition, but it's often sufficient.
It's what happens when bad Gammas get control. They do things like march around accusing women of being witches, and then require part of the atonement be that they get to have a feast on the woman's estate.
 
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Tecumsehsbones

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Well, I see no signs of him around here or in his original homeland, and that's got some nice desert places and lots of sheep, much like the place he supposedly first appeared, that seems a reasonable starting hypothesis. Maybe I'll go have a look and bring back a report.
Check Duffy's Hotel in Didjabringabeeralong. I hear the bar's great! Sorta place a god with taste and discrimination would hang out.
 

hunboldt

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No, it's nothing at all like saying that, you haven't the slightest idea what's going on in this conversation. The deaths associated with religiously-based aggression, like the Inquisition, the Crusades, the centuries of Catholics versus Protestants wars that convulsed Europe in the past, and more recently religiously motivated terrorism, were directly and explicitly justified on religious grounds. The deaths that lie at the feet of communism were not justified on atheist grounds, they were people the various thugs in charge perceived as threats, or just didn't like, atheism had nothing to do with it. Atheism is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for behaving badly. Religion is not a necessary condition, but it's often sufficient.

Aw, not that one again. Atheism is not a belief system, it's a rejection of a particular one.

Dex, you are reasoning from the specific to the general. Conflict is inherent in man's nature'Gott mitt uns' is a 'justification'.
And yes, most people who 'hold to Atheism' hold it as a 'dogma'.
Otherwise they would be agnostics.


its why you have 'Great Helmsman' cults in officially atheistic societies, and 'Aryan Church cults' whenever the moral factors of the national churches have been marginalised.