Britain says it is "concerned" at Spain's Gibraltar border fee

[Blackleaf]

Spain considers Gibraltar border fee


BBC News
4th August 2013

Spain's foreign minister said a charge to enter and exit the British territory of Gibraltar could be introduced

Spain is considering a 50-euro (£43) fee to cross its border with Gibraltar, amid a row over an artificial reef.

Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo told a Spanish newspaper the proceeds would "help fishermen affected by the destruction of fishing grounds".

The latest tensions come after the British territory - which has been British for longer than it had ever been Spanish - began work on the concrete reef, which Spain claims infringes the rights of its fishermen.

The UK Foreign Office said it was "concerned" at the minister's comments.

Britain has governed Gibraltar for 300 years but Spain disputes UK sovereignty over the rocky outcrop on its southern tip.

'No compromise'

Gibraltar was granted to Britain for eternity in 1714 by the Treaty of Utrecht

In the interview with ABC newspaper, published on Sunday, Mr Garcia-Margallo said Spain was considering the fee to enter and exit Gibraltar through its border post with Spain.

The minister was also quoted as saying that Spanish tax authorities could launch an investigation into property owned by around 6,000 Gibraltarians in neighbouring parts of Spain.

Spain is also considering closing its airspace to flights heading to Gibraltar, and changing the law so that online gaming companies operating from the British overseas territory have to use Spanish servers and come under the jurisdiction of Madrid's taxation regime, he said.

He cited the "extreme measure" by Gibraltar of "throwing concrete blocks with spikes that destroy the fishing grounds" - thought to be in reference to the reef.

He said that as well as the border fees measure, Spain would stop concrete and other materials being brought in through the border for the building of the reef.

A spokeswoman for the UK Foreign Office said: "We are concerned by today's comments on Gibraltar, which we are looking into further.

"As we have said, we will not compromise on our sovereignty over Gibraltar, nor our commitment to its people. We continue to use all necessary measures to safeguard British sovereignty."

Border delays

Gibraltar started work on the artificial reef by placing concrete blocks in the sea 10 days ago.

Spain lodged a complaint with the UK over the reef which it said stopped "Spanish fishermen fishing in a manner that is contrary to our law".

Spanish authorities later increased vehicle searches, resulting in three days of delays at the Gibraltar-Spain border last weekend.

Gibraltar linked the delays to Spain's anger over the reef - but Spain denied this, saying it had a duty to prevent smuggling.

The Foreign Office said the delays stopped on Monday after Foreign Secretary William Hague called his counterpart in Madrid.

On Friday Spain's ambassador Federico Trillo was summoned to give assurances there would be no repeat.

BBC News - Spain considers Gibraltar border fee

 

[Blackleaf]

Spain to sell Warplanes to Argentina which are a threat to the Falkland Islands

SPAIN is selling a fleet of Mirage fighter jets to Argentina in a £10million deal that fuels suspicions over relations between the nations who are both opposed to British territorial possessions, writes Marco Giannangeli.

President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner approved the deal, which will give Argentina the capability to attack the Falklands with laser-guided bombs. The 20 aircraft sold to the Argentine military are at Spain’s Albacete air base and will be shipped to Tandil air base south of Buenos Aires.

Built in France, the multi-role fighter has a top speed of 1,320mph and a range of 500 miles, boosting Argentina’s ability to “pester” the Falklands from its southern air bases.

Spain will provide spares and a training simulator and will train the initial batch of Argentine air force pilots selected from the military’s Fuerza Aerea Argentina Grupo 6 de Caza of the 6th Air Brigade.

The Ministry of Defence said the Falklands have adequate air protection from two RAF Eurofighter Typhoon fighters.

However, a senior RAF source said: “It will take eight months to get them fully operational and then we may get an indication of their intent and if they decide to fly the aircraft into UK air space.

“If the Argentines start playing games and escalate the tension we will see more RAF aircraft being deployed to the Falklands.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...lkland-Islands
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David Cameron has phoned the Spanish prime minister to complain about his treatment of Gibraltar.

The Prime Minister has telephoned Mariano Rajoy about the intensifying dispute over the British territory, it is understood.

He told Mr Rajoy that Britain's "position on sovereignty won't change".

His intervention will be welcomed following criticism of the British Government’s failure to respond robustly to threats made by the Spanish foreign minister.

The Prime Minister said in a message on Twitter: "Constructive call with Spain's PM Rajoy. I made clear my concerns re Gibraltar and that our position on sovereignty won't change."

Mr Rajoy is understood to have pledged to Mr Cameron that he will de-escalate the situation at the border.

The Government has vowed to stand "shoulder to shoulder" with its citizens in response to heightened pressure and increasingly belligerent rhetoric from Madrid.

Relations between Gibraltar and Spain have deteriorated in recent months in a row over fishing grounds, with Spanish ministers raising the prospect of imposing a £43 levy on vehicles crossing the border and the possibility of closing airspace.

Jose Garcia-Margallo, Spain's foreign minister, said the proceeds of a border fee could be used to help Spanish fishermen who have lost out because of damage to fishing grounds allegedly caused by Gibraltarian authorities following the creation of an artificial reef.

The Spanish government has been criticised for intensifying checks at the border and causing huge traffic jams.

Gibraltar's chief minister, Fabian Picardo, accused Madrid of "sabre-rattling" and behaving like North Korea.

A Downing Street spokesman said: "The Prime Minister called the Spanish Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, this morning to raise serious concerns about actions by the Spanish at the border with Gibraltar and suggestions from Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo that they may introduce further measures.

"The PM made clear that our position on the sovereignty of Gibraltar and its surrounding waters will not change. He also reiterated, as the PM and Mr. Rajoy had previously agreed, that the issue should not damage our bilateral relations. However there was a real risk of this happening unless the situation at the border improved.

"Mr Rajoy agreed that he did not want the issue to become an obstacle in the bilateral relations and that we needed to find a way to de-escalate the issue. As a next step, the Foreign Secretary should speak to Mr. Garcia-Margallo to discuss a way forward.

"In the meantime, Prime Minister Rajoy committed to reducing measures at the border. Both leaders agreed that there should be a solution to the fishing dispute."

David Cameron phones Spanish PM to complain over Gibraltar - Telegraph
****************************************************************

Last month the Gibraltar government sunk 70 concrete blocks a short distance from the coast


Spanish environmentalists have labelled their government "hypocritical" for complaining over a new artificial reef installed by Gibraltar, insisting that the same measures are taken across the Spanish coast.

The escalating diplomatic row was sparked ostensibly by Gibraltar's decision to build an artificial reef in its waters designed to help regenerate fish stocks around the Rock.

Last month the Gibraltar government sunk 70 concrete blocks a short distance from the coast. The measure will prevent trawling in its waters, a move which immediately angered Spanish fishing boats and led to a formal complaint by the government in Madrid.

Spain does not respect Britain's right to territorial waters around the Rock, claiming they were not included in the Treaty of Utrecht which ceded Gibraltar to Britain in 1713.

Madrid complained that the artificial reef was "a violation of international law in Spanish waters" and "a violation of EU environmental law".

But environmentalist groups have been swift to point out inconsistencies in the Spanish government's stance.

The Verdemar Ecologistas en Accion dismissed the complaints by Spain's government as "purely political" and having "no scientific basis".

Antonio Muñoz, the spokesman for the group in the Campo de Gibraltar area, said: "The reef has no environmental impact and in fact is a common practice along all of Spain's coasts."

"It is done to protect species and improve fish stocks were trawling is common."

"The complaints by Madrid are laughable," he said, adding that it was "hypocritical" of the government not to take issue with other projects in the area that in fact had much a more serious environmental impact.

Over the last two decades the government of Andalusia has followed a policy to regenerate its own fish stocks sinking artificial reefs in 25 different places along its southern coast.

Just a few miles from Gibraltar, an artificial reef was created seven years ago using some 90 concrete blocks, at the request of the local fishing industry in order to boost stocks.

The Gibraltar reef affects just one fishing boat, the Divina Providencia, which is moored in La Linea and was the only Spanish vessel to fish the area next to Gibraltar's airport.

Gibraltar: Spanish government 'hypocrites' for complaining about reef - Telegraph

 

[BaalsTears]

Why does Britain retain this colonial possession?

 

[Blackleaf]

Why does Britain retain this colonial possession?

Because it's ours.

 

[Blackleaf]

BRITAIN PREPARES FOR WAR WITH SPAIN


Britain has sent three warships to Gibraltar - including the helicopter carrier HMS Illustrious - as, hopefully, war with Spain looms.

David Cameron is ready to take Spain to the European courts over 'totally disproportionate' checks at the border with the British territory of Gibraltar.​

British Government lawyers are now examining whether Madrid has broken the law on a right to free movement in the EU, Downing Street said (Gibraltar and Britain are one and the same Member State of the EU). ​

The dramatic threat of legal action comes as British warships set sail for Gibraltar today in a show of naval strength.​

​

Legal action: David Cameron is threatening Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy with legal action over 'politically-motivated' delays at the Spain-Gibraltar border

Setting sail: One of the Royal Navy's two helicopter carriers HMS Illustrious (the other being HMS Ocean) leaves Portsmouth navy base in southern England earlier today, leading the operation Cougar 13 which will see three British ships stop at Gibraltar. London Mayor Boris Johnson said he hoped that it was not just a coincidence that Britain was sending a fleet of warships to Gibraltar. ‘I hope that one way or another we will shortly prise Spanish hands off the throat of our colony,’ he wrote in the Daily Telegraph.​

Farewell: Crew on board HMS Illustrious wave to well-wishers on the shore. Britain wants to show Spain her "formidable" naval strength​

Three ships including the frigate HMS Westminster depart for Gibraltar today, with ministers boasting it will demonstrate the Royal Navy’s ‘formidable strength’.​

Madrid has imposed draconian border controls and suggested that a £43 fee could be imposed on every vehicle entering or leaving the outpost through Gibraltar’s fenced border with Spain.​

It came after the British territory began work on a concrete reef in the Mediterranean which Spain claims will destroy fishing in the area.​

'These border checks are politically-motivated and totally disproportionate'​

Prime Minister's official spokesman​

Mr Cameron warned his Spanish counterpart Mariano Rajoy last week that the draconian checks had to end.​

But there was a repeat of long delays at the weekend, with the Royal Gibraltar Police yesterday tweeted that Guardia Civil checks had caused queues of up to two hours at the border, with Spanish officers checking 'every car' going onto the Rock.​

Today the Prime Minister's spokesman said: 'We feel that these ongoing border delays as a result of these border checks are politically-motivated and totally disproportionate.​

'We are now considering what legal action is open to us.'​

Show of strength: HMS Illustrious is one of 10 vessels heading for the Mediterranean for a naval exercise ​

The government believes the controls could be illegal under EU law, contrary to the right to free movement within the EU.​

'This would be an unprecedented step so we want to consider it carefully before making a decision to pursue, but the Prime Minister is disappointed by what's happened over the weekend,' the spokesman added.​

'If we go down this route then we will certainly press the European Union to pursue the case as a matter of urgency.​

'We will continue to reiterate to the Spanish our position that they need to de-escalate the issue on border checks.'​

Setting sail: HMS Westminster leaves Britain today and is expected in Gibraltar from August 19​

Ship shape: A sailor polishes HMS Westminster's ship's bell ahead of her deployment on Cougar 13​

London Mayor Boris Johnson said he hoped that it was not just a coincidence that Britain was sending a fleet of warships to Gibraltar. ‘I hope that one way or another we will shortly prise Spanish hands off the throat of our colony,’ he wrote in the Daily Telegraph.​

He added: ‘The Spanish authorities have decided, for no good reason, to revive the border checks and general harassment of the Franco epoch. ​

‘They are causing delay and botheration and they are now threatening a tax on goods vehicles going to the Rock. That is illegal under EU law, and tantamount to a blockade. They must stop it all, and pronto.’​

As diplomatic relations between Britain and Spain were plunged into the deep freeze, the Ministry of Defence announced details of the naval deployment to the region, called Cougar ’13.​

HMS Westminster and support ships RFA Lyme Bay and RFA Mounts Bay will dock at Gibraltar as part of the annual exercise involving 10 vessels including the helicopter carrier Illustrious, two frigates and support ships.​

In response, Spanish Prime Minister Mr Rajoy vowed to do everything to 'defend' his country's interests.​

​

Royal Fleet Auxiliary ships Lyme Bay (above) and Mounts Bay are two of the ten RN and RFA ships being deployed to Gibraltar. Both Britain and Spain have said they will not budge from their positions​

​

​

Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Garcia-Margallo (left) will meet Argentine counterpart Hector Timerman (right) for talks on whether to sign a pact over the disputed territories of Gibraltar and the Falklands. If so, developments could escalate further.

Tensions between Spain and Britain over Gibraltar have increased in recent days ​

Now it has emerged that Spain will seek to take its dispute with the UK over Gibraltar to the UN with the support of Argentina.​

Spanish foreign minister Jose Garcia-Margallo is expected to propose that both countries present a ‘united front’ over Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands, El Pais reported.​

Mr Garcia-Margallo will sound out his Argentinian counterpart, Hector Timerman, during a meeting in Buenos Aires next month as he prepares for a ‘180 degree turn in policy towards the colony’.​

Argentina is on a two-year term as non-permanent member of the UN's Security Council and could potentially use its position to include discussions over Gibraltar on the agenda.​

Appeal: David Cameron asked the Spanish Prime Minister to scale back contentious border checks with the British territory, including blocking flights to Gibraltar​

Exhausting: Drivers wait in the sweltering heat to enter Spain from Gibraltar, after the Spanish authorities increased border checks at the border with Gibraltar​

Spain is also considering the possibility of raising the matter of Gibraltar at the UN's General Assembly or the International Court of Justice at The Hague.​

But the UK Foreign Office was adamant that both the Falklands and Gibraltar would remain British while their people wanted to.​

A spokeswoman said: ‘Our policy on Gibraltar has not changed and is consistent with our policy on other overseas territories.​

‘Self-determination matters more than territorial integrity. ‘The people of Gibraltar have repeatedly and overwhelmingly expressed their wish to remain under British sovereignty.’ ​

Read more: Gibraltar row: David Cameron threatens to sue Spain over 'disproportionate' border checks | Mail Online ​

 

[hunboldt]

BRITAIN PREPARES FOR WAR WITH SPAIN


Britain has sent three warships to Gibraltar - including the helicopter carrier HMS Illustrious - as, hopefully, war with Spain looms.

_________________________________​

Drake he was a Devon man, an' ruled the Devon seas,
(Capten, art tha' sleepin' there below?)
Roving' tho' his death fell, he went wi' heart at ease,
A' dreamin' arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
"Take my drum to England, hang et by the shore,
Strike et when your powder's runnin' low;
If the Dons sight Devon, I'll quit the port o' Heaven,
An' drum them up the Channel as we drumm'd them long ago."​

Drake he's in his hammock till the great Armadas come,
(Capten, art tha sleepin' there below?)
Slung atween the round shot, listenin' for the drum,
An' dreamin arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
Call him on the deep sea, call him up the Sound,
Call him when ye sail to meet the foe;
Where the old trade's plyin' an' the old flag flyin'
They shall find him ware an' wakin', as they found him long ago!
​

Sir Henry Newbolt

 

[Blackleaf]

Drake’s Drum is a snare drum that Sir Francis Drake took with him when he circumnavigated the world. Shortly before he died he ordered the drum to be taken to Buckland Abbey, where it still is today, and vowed that if England was ever in danger someone was to beat the drum and he would return to defend the country. According to legend it can be heard to beat at times when England is at war or significant national events take place.

Drake is said to have taken the drum, emblazoned with his coat of arms, with him on his voyages around the world between 1577 and 1580. It was still with him for his final voyage and as he lay on his death bed off the coast of Panama in 1596 he ordered the drum returned to England where in times of trouble it should be beaten to recall him from heaven to rescue the country.

Following his death the drum was returned to Drake’s family home of Buckland Abbey in Buckland Monachorum, Devon. The drum remains on public display at Buckland Abbey under the care of the National Trust.

The drum has become an icon of English folklore with its variation of the classic king in the mountain story. Several times throughout history, people have claimed to have heard the drum beating, including: when the Mayflower left Plymouth for America in 1620, when Admiral Lord Nelson was made a freeman of Plymouth, when Napoleon was brought into Plymouth Harbour as a prisoner, and when World War I first began in 1914.

Reportedly, on HMS Royal Oak, a victory drum roll from a drum was heard when the German navy surrendered in 1918. The ship was then searched twice by the officers and then again by the captain and neither a drum nor a drummer was found on board and eventually the phenomenon was put down to the legendary drum.

In 1938, when Buckland Abbey was partly destroyed by fire, the drum was rescued and taken to safety at Buckfast Abbey. Plymouth was devastated in the German air raids that followed, reminding some of the ancient legend that “If Drake’s Drum should be moved from its rightful home, the city will fall”. The drum was returned and the city remained safe for the rest of the war.

The drum was most recently reported to be heard in 1940 at the Dunkirk evacuation during World War II. In 1940 the 45th Infantry Division, which included 4th and 5th Battalions of The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry, and the 9th battalion The Devonshire Regiment took Drake's Drum as their emblem which was painted on their transport. Drake’s Drum has been the title and subject of poems by Sir Henry Newbolt and the Victorian poet Norah M. Holland. Newbolt's poem was set to music by Charles Villiers Stanford as part of his Songs of the Sea, op.91 suite2. It was popularised by Peter Dawson. It is set in the key of D minor, with a dramatic resolution to D major.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Drake’s Drum is a snare drum that Sir Francis Drake took with him when he circumnavigated the world. Shortly before he died he ordered the drum to be taken to Buckland Abbey, where it still is today, and vowed that if England was ever in danger someone was to beat the drum and he would return to defend the country.

Britain is well defended. In her hour of greatest need, Drake's Drum will be beaten, the Fairy Flag will be waved, and Drake's fleet will rise from the depths while the Faery Host marches, and Arthur and his Companions will return.

I hope they don't have too much trouble with the anti-ship missiles and the machine guns.

 

[hunboldt]

Britain is well defended. In her hour of greatest need, Drake's Drum will be beaten, the Fairy Flag will be waved, and Drake's fleet will rise from the depths while the Faery Host marches, and Arthur and his Companions will return.

I hope they don't have too much trouble with the anti-ship missiles and the machine guns.

Even yur well known injun magick would be rather tough against a horde of English ghosts, heretic unbelieving Spanish sympathiser turncoat Mercenary reneged Cherokee...

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Even yur well known injun magick would be rather tough against a horde of English ghosts, heretic unbelieving Spanish sympathiser turncoat Mercenary reneged Cherokee...

 

[Blackleaf]

Britain is well defended. In her hour of greatest need, Drake's Drum will be beaten, the Fairy Flag will be waved, and Drake's fleet will rise from the depths while the Faery Host marches, and Arthur and his Companions will return.

I hope they don't have too much trouble with the anti-ship missiles and the machine guns.

Just because America - and for that matter Canada - doesn't have any history, tradition or old legends and has less culture than a pot of yoghurt doesn't mean that you have to take the mick out of a country which is lucky enough to have.

 

[captain morgan]

Just because America - and for that matter Canada - doesn't have any history, tradition or old legends and has less culture than a pot of yoghurt doesn't mean that you have to take the mick out of a country which is lucky enough to have.

For some folks, lowering the bar and attacking others is the only strategy/defense that is available.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Just because America - and for that matter Canada - doesn't have any history, tradition or old legends and has less culture than a pot of yoghurt doesn't mean that you have to take the mick out of a country which is lucky enough to have.

Culture? Britain?

Yeah, like what?

Germany produced far more great composers, France better food, Greece/Rome/France better architecture, Ireland better poets, Italy better painters and sculptors, America better scientists and mathematicians, France and Germany better philosophers.

Basically, you've got Shakespeare (which is one HELL of huge asset), but that's it. Aside from that, you're second-rate.

 

[hunboldt]

Culture? Britain?

Yeah, like what?

Germany produced far more great composers, France better food, Greece/Rome/France better architecture, Ireland better poets, Italy better painters and sculptors, America better scientists and mathematicians, France and Germany better philosophers.

Basically, you've got Shakespeare (which is one HELL of huge asset), but that's it. Aside from that, you're second-rate.

What has us limeys and fakelimes upset is that as a full blooded Cherokee nobleman and warrior you are reneging on your personal oath of Fealty to King George..

That said, Gilbraltar has been British longer than it was Spanish. It was a Moorish outpost.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What has us limeys and fakelimes upset is that as a full blooded Cherokee nobleman and warrior you are reneging on your personal oath of Fealty to King George..

That said, Gilbraltar has been British longer than it was Spanish. It was a Moorish outpost.

The Tsa-la-gi didn't have noblemen. The idea that one person could be born better than another was foreign to them, as it was to my people. And we never swore anything to anybody.

 

[petros]

Just because America - and for that matter Canada - doesn't have any history, tradition or old legends and has less culture than a pot of yoghurt doesn't mean that you have to take the mick out of a country which is lucky enough to have.

Old legends? Like Faeries, dragons, unicorns, leprechauns, Kings, Queens and dentists?

 

[Blackleaf]

For some folks, lowering the bar and attacking others is the only strategy/defense that is available.

What are you blaming me for? I didn't start it.

Germany produced far more great composers, France better food, Greece/Rome/France better architecture, Ireland better poets, Italy better painters and sculptors, America better scientists and mathematicians, France and Germany better philosophers.

Basically, you've got Shakespeare (which is one HELL of huge asset), but that's it. Aside from that, you're second-rate.

Either you are taking the piss or you are completely ignorant. Britain has given the world a greater abundance of great people who have achieved great things than any other country on the planet.

So, apart from Shakespeare, I take it you've never heard of Mary Shelley, John Keats, Beatrix Potter, Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, Bram Stoker, Jane Austen, Charles D ickens, Walter Louis Stevenson, H.G. Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, Joseph Conrad, Lewis Carroll, Rudyard Kipling, J.K. Rowling, Arthur C. Clarke, and Chaucer? These authors gave us Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, Harry Potter, Mowgli and many other great characters.

I take it you've never heard of Noel Coward, Ben Elton, Harold Pinter or Tom Stoppard?

What about all the Great British scientists - the ones supposedly inferior to those supposedly great American ones - like Charles Darwin (discovered evolution), Isaac Newton (discovered gravity), Sir Richard Owen (who coined the word "dinosaur"), Francis Bacon (philosopher and father of the "scientific method"), Roger Bacon, Bertrand Russel, Alan Turing (the father of computer science and artificial intelligence), Joseph Priestley (who discovered oxygen).

British scientists discovered Uranus and her moons Titania, Oberon, Ariel, Umbriel, Enceladus, Mimas and Triton. They discovered helium. They were the first to split the atom, they invented the weather map and the seismograph. They discovered the atom, the electron, the proton, the neutron and hydrogen. They coined the term "Big Bang" and first theorised the existence of black holes, binary stars and spiral galaxies. For good measure they also discovered sunspots, the white spot on Saturn, pulsars and Halley's Comet.

The list of British scientists could go on and on.

What about those great British painters like Constable, Turner, Hogarth, Gainsborough, Blake, Landseer, Rossetti, Millais, Lowry, Hockney, Hurst and Banksy?

As for architecture, why not actually come to Britain - a country which you obviously know little about - and see the abundance of architectural gems that we have in this country? I take it you've never heard of the Iron Bridge (the world's first iron bridge), Tower Bridge, the Clifton Suspension Bridge, the Forth Rail Bridge, Buckingham Palace, Kensington Palace, Hampton Court Palace, Windsor Castle, Durham Cathedral, Harlech Castle, Caernarfon Castle, Alnwick Castle, Tower of London, Hardwick Hall, Longleat House, Smithills Hall, Waddesden Manor? And that's not mentioning the hundreds of other beautiful country houses and other buildings scattered throughout the country.

What about all the great actors and actresses that Britain has produced?

What about all the great TV shows?

What about all the great music and bands and pop stars?

Rowan Atkinson, Richard Attenborough, David Attenborough, Helen Baxendale, Orlando Bloom, Emily Blunt, Joseph Fiennes, Ranulph Fiennes, Hugh Grant, Philip Glenister, Robert Glenister, Ruper Grint, Ioan Gruffudd.

The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Oasis, Blur, Black Sabbath, The Troggs, The Who, The Kinks, Led Zepellin, The Darkness, Status Quo, Roxy Music, David Bowie, The Eurythmics, T-Rex, the Sex Pistols, the Clash, the Bee Gees, Psychedelic Furs, Joy Division, the Cure, Echo & the Bunnymen, Pink Floyd, Ultravox, the Human League, Depeche Mode, Genesis, Spandau Ballet, Duran Duran, Bros, Spice Girls, Girls Aloud, A Flock of Seagulls, Aztec Camera, The Smiths, the Housemartins, James, Happy Mondays, the Stone Roses, Inspiral Carpets, Primal Scream, Pet Shop Boys, Erasure, Supergrass, Pulp, Elastica, Razorlight, Keane, Kaiser Chiefs, Muse, Arctic Monkeys, Editors, the Fratellis, Placebo, Lostprophets, the Kooks, the Klaxons and S hitdisco.

What about the fact that Britain has given the world more major inventions than any other country on the planet, such as television, the computer, the World Wide Web, the railways, the telephone, the cardiac pacemaker, the lawnmower, the seed drill, the steam engine, the jet engine, the atomic clock, the spinning jenny, the spinning mule, the spinning frame, polyester, the sewing machine, the power loom, Viagra, the Christmas card, the Valentines card, the pencil, the radio station, the tin can, Shorthand, the postage stamp, the US Navy, the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and other countries, DNA fingerprinting, disc brake,s electric transformer, tarmac, the electric toaster, corkscrew, rubber band, mousetrap, crucible steel, the hydraulic press, the small pox vaccine, aspirin, the hip replacement operation, the tank, the dreadnought, the shrapnel shell, the concertina, the theatre organ, the bassoon, the tuning fork, the Faraday cage, calculus, holography.

And here's something to remember the next time you're thinking of telling me how "superior" the US, France, Germany, Italy and Ireland are to Britain - Britain has more Nobel Prize winners per capita than all of those countries.

Britain is ranked 9th in the world with 18.875 Nobel Laureates per 10 million people. Ireland is just 12th, with 12.706; Germany is 13th, with 12.668; the USA is a mere 15th, with just a paltry 10.770; France is 17th, with 8.990; and poor Canada is just 23rd, with just 6.122.

So, on a per capita basis, Britain is producing more great people achieving great things than the US, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Ireland. So I don't want you telling me that Britain is inferior and priduces nothing of worth again.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What are you blaming me for? I didn't start it.



Either you are taking the piss or you are completely ignorant. Britain has given the world a greater abundance of great people who have achieved great things than any other country on the planet.

So, apart from Shakespeare, I take it you've never heard of Mary Shelley, John Keats, Beatrix Potter, Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, Bram Stoker, Jane Austen, Charles D ickens, Walter Louis Stevenson, H.G. Wells, Arthur Conan Doyle, Joseph Conrad, Lewis Carroll, Rudyard Kipling, J.K. Rowling, Arthur C. Clarke, and Chaucer? These authors gave us Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, Harry Potter, Mowgli and many other great characters.

I take it you've never heard of Noel Coward, Ben Elton, Harold Pinter or Tom Stoppard?

What about all the Great British scientists - the ones supposedly inferior to those supposedly great American ones - like Charles Darwin (discovered evolution), Isaac Newton (discovered gravity), Sir Richard Owen (who coined the world "dinosaur"), Francis Bacon (philosopher and father of the "scientific method"), Roger Bacon, Bertrand Russel, Alan Turing (the father of computer science and artificial intelligence), Joseph Priestley (who discovered oxygen).

British scientists discovered Uranus and her moons Titania, Oberon, Ariel, Umbriel, Enceladus, Mimas and Triton. They discovered helium. They were the first to split the atom, they invented the weather map and the seismograph. They discovered the atom, the electron, the proton, the neutron and hydrogen. They coined the term "Big Bang" and first theorised the existence of black holes, binary stars and spiral galaxies. For good measure they also discovered sunspots, the white spot on Saturn, pulsars and Halley's Comet.

The list of British scientists could go on and on.

What about those great British painters like Constable, Turner, Hogarth, Gainsborough, Blake, Landseer, Rossetti, Millais, Lowry, Hockney, Hurst and Banksy?

As for architecture, why not actually come to Britain - a country which you obviously know little about - and see the abundance of architectural gems that we have in this country? I take it you've never heard of the Iron Bridge (the world's first iron bridge), Tower Bridge, the Clifton Suspension Bridge, the Forth Rail Bridge, Buckingham Palace, Kensington Palace, Hampton Court Palace, Windsor Castle, Durham Cathedral, Harlech Castle, Caernarfon Castle, Alnwick Castle, Tower of London, Hardwick Hall, Longleat House, Smithills Hall, Waddesden Manor? And that's not mentioning the hundreds of other beatoful country houses scattered throughout the country.

What about all the great actos and actresses that Britain has produced? What about all the great TV shows?

What about the fact that Britain has given the world more major inventions than any other country on the planet, such as television, the computer, the World Wide Web, the railways, the telephone, the cardiac pacemaker, the lawnmower, the seed drill, the steam engine, the jet engine, the atomic clock, the spinning jenny, the spinning mule, the spinning frame, polyester, the sewing machine, the power loom, Viagra, the Christmas card, the Valentines card, the pencil, the radio station, the tin can, Shorthand, the postage stamp, the US Navy, the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and other countries, DNA fingerprinting, disc brake,s electric transformer, tarmac, the electric toaster, corkscrew, rubber band, mousetrap, crucible steel, the hydraulic press, the small pox vaccine, aspirin, the hip replacement operation, the tank, the dreadnought, the shrapnel shell, the concertina, the theatre organ, the bassoon, the tuning fork, the Faraday cage, calculus, holography.

And here's something to remember the next time you're thinking of telling me how "superior" the US, France, Germany, Italy and Ireland are to Britain - Britain has more Nobel Prize winners per capita than all of those countries.

Britain is ranked 9th in the world with 18.875 Nobel Laureates per 10 million people. Ireland is just 12, with 12.706; Germany is 13, with 12.668; the USA is a mere 15th, with just a paltry 10.7770; France is 17th, with 8.990; and poor Canada is just 23rd, with just 6.122.

So, on a per capita basis, Britain is producing more great people achieving great things than the US, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Ireland.

You forgot the part about Britain being the only country to put a man on the moon.

C'mon, Alf, if you must lie, lie BIG!

 

[Blackleaf]

You forgot the part about Britain being the only country to put a man on the moon.

A feat America only achieved by nicking Nazi Germany's scientists and technology.

 

[captain morgan]

What are you blaming me for? I didn't start it..

I wasn't