Detroit Files for Bankruptcy

[Machjo]

Now I kept saying five-year-olds, but the same would apply equally to a fourteen-year-old. They're supposed to be in school and they can't learn on an empty stomach. A pimple-riddled fourteen-year-old might not be as cute a a cuddly five-year-old, but the principle applies all the same. He won't learn nothin' on an empty stomach all because he chose the wrong parents.

 

[Sal]

Now I kept saying five-year-olds, but the same would apply equally to a fourteen-year-old. They're supposed to be in school and they can't learn on an empty stomach. A pimple-riddled fourteen-year-old might not be as cute a a cuddly five-year-old, but the principle applies all the same. He won't learn nothin' on an empty stomach all because he chose the wrong parents.

I pulled five year old out of the air before I read your post... unless one has a high school education it is becoming difficult to get any job, it is not the same world it was and I believe that people who live insular lives or are no longer in the work force are unaware of how things have changed. Also poverty today is not the same as poverty years ago but the judgement standards have not changed.

Also people who do not interact with the public at large have no clue what kind of barriers and hurdles people are facing.

 

[Machjo]

Even a high school education does not suffice anymore. I'd even considered a kind of 5-15 programme, wehreby starting at the age of 5, the first 9 years of school would be year-round. Sure it would include extracurricular activities, such as music, martial arts, languages, dance, etc. alongside academic subjects, according to student interest, but they would be expected to learn a trade or profession by the end of that programme. Add to that some kind of peace corps whereby those who wish to continue to higher education but would like to searve in a more peaceful organization than the military could serve that in exchange for higher education.

I pulled five year old out of the air before I read your post... unless one has a high school education it is becoming difficult to get any job, it is not the same world it was and I believe that people who live insular lives or are no longer in the work force are unaware of how things have changed. Also poverty today is not the same as poverty years ago but the judgement standards have not changed.

Also people who do not interact with the public at large have no clue what kind of barriers and hurdles people are facing.

Last I checked, thievery does not require a high school education, so what's the problem?

You see, the problem with public education is that it costs so much. It implies that somehow the adults all have responsibility for the children of the community. Is that the message we want to send to the world, that we care about our children? Oh my, we have a lack of reputation to protect.

 

[damngrumpy]

Detroit died for a number of reasons. Free trade and corporate greed are
high up on the list but not the only reasons. Automation is another workers
are hardly needed to build things now. Even if we didn't have free trade there
would be fewer and fewer workers anyway.
The problem is that we have displaced workers in many areas and we have not
found jobs that are required to pay good wages and maintain a middle class.
The list of waste and squander is too long to detail, the destruction of Detroit is
really a warning for the rest of the American Empire its on the decline and its time
to pay attention and regroup

 

[JLM]

Detroit died for a number of reasons. Free trade and corporate greed are
high up on the list but not the only reasons. Automation is another workers
are hardly needed to build things now. Even if we didn't have free trade there
would be fewer and fewer workers anyway.
The problem is that we have displaced workers in many areas and we have not
found jobs that are required to pay good wages and maintain a middle class.
The list of waste and squander is too long to detail, the destruction of Detroit is
really a warning for the rest of the American Empire its on the decline and its time
to pay attention and regroup

Not to mention factory workers earning big bucks but only producing reliable products for a couple of hours on Wednesdays!

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

and that's what most people miss and it frustrates me to no end...it's the children who fall through the cracks when the parents are punished by society for mental health issues or second or third generation welfare because environment influences how we perceive the world, it's sad... build more prisons... that's their solution

A lot of these issues could have been stopped by the person with mental health issues or other issues keeping their legs closed or using a condom on conception night. Yet they must have their freedom. They can't be locked up in the loonie bin because it would violate their rights. The kid can't be force-adopted because that too would violate their rights. So now we have kids that can't really be cared for but the state can't really do anything about it either. Maybe free condoms are the answer.

 

[Sal]

Even a high school education does not suffice anymore. I'd even considered a kind of 5-15 programme, wehreby starting at the age of 5, the first 9 years of school would be year-round. Sure it would include extracurricular activities, such as music, martial arts, languages, dance, etc. alongside academic subjects, according to student interest, but they would be expected to learn a trade or profession by the end of that programme. Add to that some kind of peace corps whereby those who wish to continue to higher education but would like to searve in a more peaceful organization than the military could serve that in exchange for higher education.

I am not so sure about saying a high school education no longer is sufficient but you may have something there and if so, it is a HUGE problem.

The problem would then become and perhaps HAS BECOME that there is no longer a place in our society for the "average" soul. And actually, that is becoming increasingly evident. Average IQ is 100. IF our technology becoming increasingly more difficult for the average individual to cope with we, are facked.

It's all well and good for the right wingers to want every one to work, I have no difficulty with that... but that means the average job has to be at an average level. We used to be a society that functioned exactly that way. If you were smarter than average, you were lead-hand or whatever. Now a BA or at least a college diploma is required to make at least a liveable income or slightly above that. If you want to be rich you need an MA or really something more than that.

Not everyone can be a lawyer or a doctor, not everyone can process information at the speed of light. What are we going to do with them? Education...yeah okay... but that still can't make people "above average intelligence."

It just can't.

Last I checked, thievery does not require a high school education, so what's the problem?

I am confused about this statement of yours. Please explain.

You see, the problem with public education is that it costs so much. It implies that somehow the adults all have responsibility for the children of the community. Is that the message we want to send to the world, that we care about our children? Oh my, we have a lack of reputation to protect.

Same here.... please explain.

 

[JLM]

I am not so sure about saying a high school education no longer is sufficient but you may have something there and if so, it is a HUGE problem.

The problem would then become and perhaps HAS BECOME that there is no longer a place in our society for the "average" soul. And actually, that is becoming increasingly evident. Average IQ is 100. IF our technology becoming increasingly more difficult for the average individual to cope with we, are facked.

It's all well and good for the right wingers to want every one to work, I have no difficulty with that... but that means the average job has to be at an average level. We used to be a society that functioned exactly that way. If you were smarter than average, you were lead-hand or whatever. Now a BA or at least a college diploma is required to make at least a liveable income or slightly above that. If you want to be rich you need an MA or really something more than that.

Not everyone can be a lawyer or a doctor, not everyone can process information at the speed of light. What are we going to do with them? Education...yeah okay... but that still can't make people "above average intelligence."

It just can't.
I am confused about this statement of yours. Please explain.
Same here.... please explain.

The sad part of it is, is that is the way it is in many organizations and very often those with the fancy papers and degrees are among the least capable to lead or manage anything. I'll take a guy any day who has a grade 8 education by the old standards (able to read, write, add and multiply) and long years of experience on the job, starting at the bottom and working his/her way up. With these guys with the papers it takes a couple of years just to get their heads deflated.

 

[Machjo]

A lot of these issues could have been stopped by the person with mental health issues or other issues keeping their legs closed or using a condom on conception night. Yet they must have their freedom. They can't be locked up in the loonie bin because it would violate their rights. The kid can't be force-adopted because that too would violate their rights. So now we have kids that can't really be cared for but the state can't really do anything about it either. Maybe free condoms are the answer.

And what about the parent who was stable at the time but lost their job since. Force the kid to separate from his parents however law-abiding they may be?

Life happens and some people can fall through the cracks.

 

[JLM]

And what about the parent who was stable at the time but lost their job since. Force the kid to separate from his parents however law-abiding they may be?

Life happens and some people can fall through the cracks.

I've always thought that one of the measures of a smart person is one who learns through others' mistakes and definitely through their own mistakes but yet we keep seeing the same sh*t happening over and over. There has been a lot in the news lately about people losing everything they own through house fires but yet people still fail to insure what they own for pennies on the dollar.

 

[SLM]

I've always thought that one of the measures of a smart person is one who learns through others' mistakes and definitely through their own mistakes but yet we keep seeing the same sh*t happening over and over. There has been a lot in the news lately about people losing everything they own through house fires but yet people still fail to insure what they own for pennies on the dollar.

That because a lot of people still think it'll never happen to them.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

And what about the parent who was stable at the time but lost their job since. Force the kid to separate from his parents however law-abiding they may be?

Life happens and some people can fall through the cracks.

I never said we should not have a safety net. But that doesn't mean everybody using the net should be.

 

[Sal]

The sad part of it is, is that is the way it is in many organizations and very often those with the fancy papers and degrees are among the least capable to lead or manage anything. I'll take a guy any day who has a grade 8 education by the old standards (able to read, write, add and multiply) and long years of experience on the job, starting at the bottom and working his/her way up. With these guys with the papers it takes a couple of years just to get their heads deflated.

It is the way of the world right now. Just because someone has a diploma or a degree does not mean they are a leader. It does not mean they understand human psychology and can push a team to their best level of production.

Understanding the psychology of human behaviour is what makes the best leaders. THAT is intuitive, it is often inherent and I do not believe it can be taught or has anything to do with IQ...however, it is the way things are now. We are less for it.

Not to mention factory workers earning big bucks but only producing reliable products for a couple of hours on Wednesdays!

that is harsh, factory workers in this day and age have every right to expect that they can support their family like their parents did, but it just isn't so, and that is not their fault.

A lot of these issues could have been stopped by the person with mental health issues or other issues keeping their legs closed or using a condom on conception night. Yet they must have their freedom. They can't be locked up in the loonie bin because it would violate their rights. The kid can't be force-adopted because that too would violate their rights. So now we have kids that can't really be cared for but the state can't really do anything about it either. Maybe free condoms are the answer.

Free condoms are not the answer. I don't know what is. I just know kids get the fall out and later society does because they fell between the cracks and problems that could have been averted by feeding them in school or supporting them didn't happen...so now they turn to crime and end up incarcerated and WE pay more.

I wish people would get that part. a little compassion costs so much less... but that would mean looking at the big picture.

AND understanding human nature...but that is a leftard thing... actually if they would only understand, it is a fiscally responsible thing to do

 

[JLM]

"that is harsh, factory workers in this day and age have every right to expect that they can support their family like their parents did, but it just isn't so, and that is not their fault."

I'm inclined to agree somewhat. However years ago it was pretty well common knowledge that if you wanted a reliable G.M. product, try to get one built on a Wednesday. Mondays and Tuesdays the guys were still recuperating from the weekend and on Thursdays and Fridays their minds were focused on the coming weekend.

 

[Sal]

"that is harsh, factory workers in this day and age have every right to expect that they can support their family like their parents did, but it just isn't so, and that is not their fault."

I'm inclined to agree somewhat. However years ago it was pretty well common knowledge that if you wanted a reliable G.M. product, try to get one built on a Wednesday. Mondays and Tuesdays the guys were still recuperating from the weekend and on Thursdays and Fridays their minds were focused on the coming weekend.

then things haven't changed at all...no surprise right? since human beings have the same flaws now as they did 40 years ago

 

[JLM]

It is the way of the world right now. Just because someone has a diploma or a degree does not mean they are a leader. It does not mean they understand human psychology and can push a team to their best level of production.

Understanding the psychology of human behaviour is what makes the best leaders. THAT is intuitive, it is often inherent and I do not believe it can be taught or has anything to do with IQ...however, it is the way things are now.

I think there are two things that can be helpful (having been a supervisor myself for many years) 1. Try to treat people the way you like to be treated, while being strict about meeting standards. 2. Occasionally "get your hands dirty" with the people you are supervising, it can amaze you to see first hand the problems they encounter. A third one might be to let them know you are available when they need help, but in the meantime stay away from them and let them do their jobs.

 

[Sal]

I think there are two things that can be helpful (having been a supervisor myself for many years) 1. Try to treat people the way you like to be treated, while being strict about meeting standards. 2. Occasionally "get your hands dirty" with the people you are supervising, it can amaze you to see first hand the problems they encounter. A third one might be to let them know you are available when they need help, but in the meantime stay away from them and let them do their jobs.

yeah I would say that pretty much sums up a good work place leader ♦

 

[JLM]

then things haven't changed at all...no surprise right? since human beings have the same flaws now as they did 40 years ago

I'm not quite so sure, I was one of the ones who was born at the best time in history, my working years encompassed the '60s through the '90s when people generally prospered. While for most things still seem to be pretty good, I think there are more now who are struggling and possibly have undergone a change in philosophy. (Like having to pay the grocery bill could jeopardize Saturday night at the pub).

 

[Sal]

I'm not quite so sure, I was one of the ones who was born at the best time in history, my working years encompassed the '60s through the '90s when people generally prospered. While for most things still seem to be pretty good, I think there are more now who are struggling and possibly have undergone a change in philosophy. (Like having to pay the grocery bill could jeopardize Saturday night at the pub).

yes, before promotion was on merit and perceived ability to both do the job and lead, now, not so much... as for Saturday night entertainment placed before groceries it's probably the same percentage just more people so thus appears as more...

 

[Locutus]

Everyone knew Detroit was collapsing, but no one stepped up

*warning - unapproved news source*