Scientists link harsh winter to dramatic decline in Arctic Sea Ice

Cobalt_Kid

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https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/25-7

She goes on to explain that the rapid decline in sea ice is what is affecting the jet stream and leading to the extreme weather currently being experienced in the mid-latitudes.

"It allows the cold air from the Arctic to plunge much further south. The pattern can be slow to change because the [southern] wave of the jet stream is getting bigger. It's now at a near record position, so whatever weather you have now is going to stick around."

Adding to her assertion, in a report published earlier this month in the Proceedings in the National Academy of Scientists, researchers confirm that global-warming induced sea ice loss is causing changes in the "winter Northern Hemisphere atmospheric circulation," including the jet stream, which allows cold Arctic air to reach further south and causes "more frequent episodes of blocking patterns that lead to increased cold surges over large parts of northern continents."

Climate change can and does occur chaotically as we can see from this.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,576
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Is it possible the Pacific does a weird thing where the warm equatorial water heads north and the chilly Arctic waters head south?

Is this at all possible?

Would that spike northern temps drop southern temps while stymieing rain fall inland?

Is there a name for it?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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I love the 'new' scientific review - peer reviewed (I'm sure) from the weenies that keep screaming that the sky is falling.

Some of the best comic relief going these days.

... If only they had some sound effects of rim-shots that played whilst reading the drivel
 

Jonny_C

Electoral Member
Apr 25, 2013
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Climate change can and does occur chaotically as we can see from this.

There must be some Conservative policy that is aggravating this situation.

Oh wait! ... the Tar Sands.

Only Justin Trudeau gave the thumbs up on that one too.

We're really f*cked.
 

Cobalt_Kid

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Anyone who's in power in the coming years is going to have to deal with this issue, denial based on ignorance, whether real or feigned isn't going to cut it no matter what someones political affiliation.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Internet Forces Global Warming into Retreat?

Today, for instance, Principia Scientific is featuring an article entitled "Exposed: Academic Fraud in New Climate Science Consensus Claim." The article begins:
Authors of a new climate science consensus study trumpeted by mainstream media hacks for "proving" that most scientists blame humans for global warming are today being accused of fakery. Uproar ensued just days after publication of a controversial paper, 'Quantifying the consensus on anthropogenic global warming in the scientific literature.'
Experts whose work was cited in the paper by lead author, John Cook ... are aghast that their work has been used to justify far-fetched claims that there exists a "97% consensus" among scientists regarding human-caused global warming. Among those upset scientists cited in the new paper is Dr. Craig Idso. Idso reacted: "That is not an accurate representation of my paper."
Once again, we have "evidence" that proves not to stand up to scrutiny. It is an overwhelming pattern that the Internet provides to those who want to look. Anyone who recalls the global warming scandals of three years ago will grant that this particular alarmist orientation is truly and even pathologically questionable. At the time, a post at skeptical ClimateDepot.com explained,
 

Trex

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Apr 4, 2007
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https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/03/25-7



Climate change can and does occur chaotically as we can see from this.

Most excellent.
Once all that pesky ice melts the Arctic regions should resume warming nicely.

Canada has evrything to gain from slightly warmer temperatures and virtually nothing to loose.
More and varied crops, longer summers, longer growing seasons.
A boost in tourism no doubt.
Desertification is certainly not an issue at home here in Canada as we are awash in fresh water.
Rising ocean levels don't mean much to a lightly populated yet the second largest country in the world.
The sooner that ice pack melts the sooner the Canadian Arctic will become a major shipping route with all the associated developmental and fiscal spin offs.
We should be planning a for few far northern ports ASAP.

We need to drill, baby drill.
And after that we need to mine, baby mine.
Then we can export our asses off and grow rich like Norway or Australia.

I like to buy a few chunks of dry ice, crack a brewski and then watch the stuff sublimate in the sunshine
 

Mowich

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Dec 25, 2005
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Your post gave me a good chuckle Trex. Thing is, the picture isn't all rosy. There are ecosystems in BC that will not react kindly to warming temps. Our forests for one. Until it started raining here last week, we had 41 active fires in the province - one came very close to Kamloops. The hazard level was high - no opening burning. We had a lot less snow this winter and it went fast. The hot spell we had early in May didn't help. If temps keep rising we can expect more of the same.
 

Cobalt_Kid

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Feb 3, 2007
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Most excellent.
Once all that pesky ice melts the Arctic regions should resume warming nicely.

Canada has evrything to gain from slightly warmer temperatures and virtually nothing to loose.
More and varied crops, longer summers, longer growing seasons.
A boost in tourism no doubt.
Desertification is certainly not an issue at home here in Canada as we are awash in fresh water.
Rising ocean levels don't mean much to a lightly populated yet the second largest country in the world.
The sooner that ice pack melts the sooner the Canadian Arctic will become a major shipping route with all the associated developmental and fiscal spin offs.
We should be planning a for few far northern ports ASAP.

We need to drill, baby drill.
And after that we need to mine, baby mine.
Then we can export our asses off and grow rich like Norway or Australia.

I like to buy a few chunks of dry ice, crack a brewski and then watch the stuff sublimate in the sunshine

You make it sound like this is a controlled process, it isn't.

Canada has everything to lose, just as does the rest of the world.

Changing climatic and temperature zones means that the habitat that most species have evolved to live in are moving rapidly polewards, in many cases faster than the biotas(all the life that lives there) can follow. As the process progresses more and more species will be lost as they no longer have the factors necessary for life.

A melting Arctic also means warming a region with massive amounts of methane in frozen deposits, methane is a greenhouse gas many times more powerful than CO2, we could see massive pulses of it released in the coming decades.

A warming Canada also means melting glaciers which many of us depend on for water in the summer months, there is already a serious decline in glaciers in the west.

A warming Arctic could also change the basic chemistry of the region meaning much higher levels of tropospheric ozone, which is a harmful pollutant at that level.

Across the west there has been a drying trend that is expected to worsen over the coming decades and could eventually result in a desert stretching from Mexico into the Canadian Prairies.

The oceans are already seeing a increase in average level and there is significant mass loss from the polar ice sheets as measured by satellite. Go ahead and tell all the people living on Canada's extensive coast line that their valuable property is doomed in the mid to long term.

We're already seeing extreme storm and weather activity that has resulted in huge costs, there are also significant costs associated with the spread of pests like pine beetles that are no longer controlled by cold winters. The range for disease vectors like mosquitoes carrying things like malaria, dengue fever and West Nile will also increase, a much warmer Canada can also mean a more dangerous one.

If you're suicidal or completely moronic then I guess you could find something to celebrate in all this.
 
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Trex

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Apr 4, 2007
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You make it sound like this is a controlled process, it isn't.

Canada has everything to lose, just as does the rest of the world.

Changing climatic and temperature zones means that the habitat that most species have evolved to live in are moving rapidly polewards, in many cases faster than the biotas(all the life that lives there) can follow. As the process progresses more and more species will be lost as they no longer have the factors necessary for life.

A melting Arctic also means warming a region with massive amounts of methane in frozen deposits, methane is a greenhouse gas many times more powerful than CO2, we could see massive pulses of it released in the coming decades.

A warming Canada also means melting glaciers which many of us depend on for water in the summer months, there is already a serious decline in glaciers in the west.

A warming Arctic could also change the basic chemistry of the region meaning much higher levels of tropospheric ozone, which is a harmful pollutant at that level.

Across the west there has been a drying trend that is expected to worsen over the coming decades and could eventually result in a desert stretching from Mexico into the Canadian Prairies.

The oceans are already seeing a increase in average level and there is significant mass loss from the polar ice sheets as measured by satellite. Go ahead and tell all the people living on Canada's extensive coast line that their valuable property is doomed in the mid to long term.

We're already seeing extreme storm and weather activity that has resulted in huge costs, there are also significant costs associated with the spread of pests like pine beetles that are no longer controlled by cold winters. The range for disease vectors like mosquitoes carrying things like malaria, dengue fever and West Nile will also increase, a much warmer Canada can also mean a more dangerous one.

If you're suicidal or completely moronic then I guess you could find something to celebrate in all this.

Blah blah blah.
Unicorns, moonbeams and foil hats.

Canada is slightly larger than the USA geographically.
Canada has a population of around 35 million the US of A has a population of around 320 million.
The reason?
The much warmer weather in the States.
It's more liveable there.
Better growing climate with multiple harvests.
A much more diversified crop availability.
I am supposed to fear that happening here in Canada?
Read my above post.
When it comes to global warming Canada has pretty much everything to gain.
Rising water levels, by an inch or three?
Pffft.
Maybe if I lived on a small atoll within a foot of sea level clearance.
But then nobody in Canada does.

As to me be suicidal or moronic, I think not .
I am doing just fine, worked all over the world, seen how everyone else gets along comparatively speaking.
All is more or less well here in Canada.

As to you.
Perhaps your are one of those hermaphroditic basement dwellers still suckling furtively on moma's coatails?
Or desperately wishing that you still could.
Dreaming of the glory days when others took care of your soiled nappie problems?
All those nasty big boy problems magically taken care of just for you.

As to the above paragraph.
Can the personal insults Cobalt Child.
We can all do it, it adds nothing to the debate.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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Blah blah blah.
Unicorns, moonbeams and foil hats.

Canada is slightly larger than the USA geographically.
Canada has a population of around 35 million the US of A has a population of around 320 million.
The reason?
The much warmer weather in the States.
It's more liveable there.
Better growing climate with multiple harvests.
A much more diversified crop availability.
I am supposed to fear that happening here in Canada?
Read my above post.
When it comes to global warming Canada has pretty much everything to gain.
Rising water levels, by an inch or three?
Pffft.
Maybe if I lived on a small atoll within a foot of sea level clearance.
But then nobody in Canada does.

As to me be suicidal or moronic, I think not .
I am doing just fine, worked all over the world, seen how everyone else gets along comparatively speaking.
All is more or less well here in Canada.

As to you.
Perhaps your are one of those hermaphroditic basement dwellers still suckling furtively on moma's coatails?
Or desperately wishing that you still could.
Dreaming of the glory days when others took care of your soiled nappie problems?
All those nasty big boy problems magically taken care of just for you.

As to the above paragraph.
Can the personal insults Cobalt Child.
We can all do it, it adds nothing to the debate.

You're talking out of your ***, climatic systems are chaotic they aren't linear, no one knows where the global and by extension regional climates are going, all we know is that significant change is already underway... and it's not controlled.

As for the rest, grow up, these are adult issues, inform yourself of the facts and we can try and have an adult conversation. Right now you seem to have regressed to the level of a two year old.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Your post gave me a good chuckle Trex. Thing is, the picture isn't all rosy. There are ecosystems in BC that will not react kindly to warming temps. Our forests for one. Until it started raining here last week, we had 41 active fires in the province - one came very close to Kamloops. The hazard level was high - no opening burning. We had a lot less snow this winter and it went fast. The hot spell we had early in May didn't help. If temps keep rising we can expect more of the same.


We had lots of snow... and it stuck around for awhile. It just started getting warm here a few days ago.

You're talking out of your ***, climatic systems are chaotic they aren't linear, no one knows where the global and by extension regional climates are going, all we know is that significant change is already underway... and it's not controlled.
.

BADDA-BING!

I think you're getting it! Nor can it BE controlled.
 

Trex

Electoral Member
Apr 4, 2007
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You're talking out of your ***, climatic systems are chaotic they aren't linear, no one knows where the global and by extension regional climates are going, all we know is that significant change is already underway... and it's not controlled.

As for the rest, grow up, these are adult issues, inform yourself of the facts and we can try and have an adult conversation. Right now you seem to have regressed to the level of a two year old.

I see you didn't get the pretty blunt hint.
You just can't help it can you?
Personal insult after insult.
Every post.
It's what you do.
No matter how many people call you on it.
You just keep doing it.
Your a troll.
And a disgrace to any debate.
Lame lame lame.
Grow the hell up.

*** to your post.
It's non linear you claim.
End point it for us?

It's chaotic you claim.
But you know the result of that and the rest of us do not?
Please let us know about your education in chaos theory?

It's not contolled you claim.
But you know the result?

Here is a point.
I spent a couple of months up on Ellesmere Island.
Courtesy of the Federal Government.
In a internationally staffed meteorological research base.
It was like The Big Bang Theory.
Drank huge amounts of beer and shots with the researchers.
Researchers are huge drinkers BTW.
Guess what I learned?
It's a complex issue.
Nobody knows much for sure.
It's very unpredictable.

moving right along.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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[/FONT]

We had lots of snow... and it stuck around for awhile. It just started getting warm here a few days ago.



BADDA-BING!

I think you're getting it! Nor can it BE controlled.

Not directly, that's not what the issue is.

What we can and should at least try and control is the forcing part of the equation that we're responsible for. That has to do with the energy balance between what's coming in from the sun, mostly in the form of short wavelength EM radiation, and what's going out in the form of longwave EM radiation from the Earth's surface.

It's been established long ago that CO2 is the most important persistent GHG in the atmosphere and it follows that by rapidly and significantly changing the amount in the atmosphere we're going to change the radiative balance that determines the overall global climate.

What it comes down to is the more carbon dioxide we pump into the environment the slower the rate of release of energy back into space. That extra energy has to go somewhere and is going to have an effect in how it travels through the global climatic system. Right now it's melting ice, heating the oceans, changing weather patterns and the jet streams.
 

EagleSmack

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Not directly, that's not what the issue is.

What we can and should at least try and control is the forcing part of the equation that we're responsible for. That has to do with the energy balance between what's coming in from the sun, mostly in the form of short wavelength EM radiation, and what's going out in the form of longwave EM radiation from the Earth's surface.

It's been established long ago that CO2 is the most important persistent GHG in the atmosphere and it follows that by rapidly and significantly changing the amount in the atmosphere we're going to change the radiative balance that determines the overall global climate.

How many bank transfers will it take again? How many bits and bytes from one countries server to the another's will keep the climate completely stable and unchanging for all eternity?
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
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How many bank transfers will it take again? How many bits and bytes from one countries server to the another's will keep the climate completely stable and unchanging for all eternity?

Sorry, my mind doesn't work like that.

What I do see are many new emerging technologies that offer much lower environmental impacts and virtually limitless supplies of energy. Investing in them would be investing in a future that is almost limitless.

All we need to do is get around a power block that only seems to see the limits they impose as being essential.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Sorry, my mind doesn't work like that.

What I do see are many new emerging technologies that offer much lower environmental impacts and virtually limitless supplies of energy. Investing in them would be investing in a future that is almost limitless.

All we need to do is get around a power block that only seems to see the limits they impose as being essential.

What I see is billions of taxpayer dollars being wasted and owners of these new emerging companies making a golden parachute when their company eventually fails.

And those are facts.

Even my state invested 600K in a solar company and it went out of business. Our Governor said it was a good investment and he'd do it again AFTER they closed shop. That's my liberal state! Losing $600K is a good investment!

BTW... have you made yourself carbon neutral this year? You know... have you bought some carbon credits to save the earth?
 

Cobalt_Kid

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Feb 3, 2007
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What I see is billions of taxpayer dollars being wasted and owners of these new emerging companies making a golden parachute when their company eventually fails.

And those are facts.

Even my state invested 600K in a solar company and it went out of business. Our Governor said it was a good investment and he'd do it again AFTER they closed shop. That's my liberal state! Losing $600K is a good investment!

BTW... have you made yourself carbon neutral this year? You know... have you bought some carbon credits to save the earth?

An ad hoc implementation isn't going to work, there needs to be a comprehensive plan, and that includes the phaseout of fossil fuels...which brings in a political element that makes it very hard to do anything.