Woman dies after brutal beating

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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As does mine and as does the docs I had in BC and the specialists both my wife and I have dealt with.

The comments made concerning kick backs borders on slander.

I think most doctors have concern for their patients and do their best to look after their health. If a person eats poorly, is a couch potato and 100 lbs. overweight and smokes 2 packs of smokes a day there isn't a pill in the country that's going to miraculously make him healthy!
 

no more drugs

Electoral Member
Jan 21, 2013
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I'm of two minds about this. First I hate the "drugstore mentality" that a lot of people maintain without question. Second, I wouldn't go to a doctor whose advice I wouldn't follow. No use getting professional advice just to ignore it. My doctor is good and he agrees with my logic about following a healthy lifestyle first and then do final tweaking with a prescription.

Dear JLM,

This is my point exactly..

Most of us have been raised to believe our doctor knows best so we follow their advice (and prescriptions) without question. (Like what you said)

You wont find many doctors who dont prescribe antidepressants ( to normal everyday people.)

Some for chronic pain, menopause, quitting smoking, anxiety.. and the list goes on.

Like it or not, pharmaceuticals are a cash cow... Psychotropics are the most widely prescribed drug there isin Canada and the US .. biggest money makers and the pharmaceutical companies finacially support the gov and the media .

These drugs are for the young and old, male and female, for any reason from fidgety children, a sports injury, overwhelmed mothers, to anxiety, to high blood pressure, to fibromyalgia, to depression.

Although I believe doctors have good intentions, that doesnt mean that they are all well informed about these drugs and the studies that say they dont work.... Many dont know the side affects or that they are even addictive.

Society needs to read up on these drugs so that if and when the doc suggests them, they will say no... Sadly, many people trust what their doctor tells them without batting an eye...



Here is a link to a recent study in Time 2012.. showing placebo was more effective and the drug didnt work.


New Research on the Antidepressant-vs.-Placebo Debate

By Maia SzalavitzJan. 18, 2012


Read more: New Research on the Antidepressant-vs.-Placebo Debate | TIME.com
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
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Dear JLM,

This is my point exactly..

Most of us have been raised to believe our doctor knows best so we follow their advice (and prescriptions) without question. (Like what you said)

Same goes for any service we pay for.... if we feel the need to walk into someone's office for say, an evaluation on our broken down car, we're likely going to have to defer to the advice given us, or else we'd have fixed the problem ourselves already.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
Same goes for any service we pay for.... if we feel the need to walk into someone's office for say, an evaluation on our broken down car, we're likely going to have to defer to the advice given us, or else we'd have fixed the problem ourselves already.

I'll sure as hell take my chances with a professional (whose credentials are usually easily checked) than the word of someone with enough facts to be dangerous but not enough to know the whole situation.-:)
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
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I'll sure as hell take my chances with a professional (whose credentials are usually easily checked) than the word of someone with enough facts to be dangerous but not enough to know the whole situation.-:)

Especially when they use conspiracy theory to fill in any information that is missing to confirm their opinion. For example, 'no more drugs' holds the opinion that if Anti-d's weren't brought up in a violent killing, then it's because the toxicology was suppressed and the family was socially bullied into not saying anything.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Especially when they use conspiracy theory to fill in any information that is missing to confirm their opinion. For example, 'no more drugs' holds the opinion that if Anti-d's weren't brought up in a violent killing, then it's because the toxicology was suppressed and the family was socially bullied into not saying anything.

It's like the hue and cry about these new "smart meters" (B.C. Hydro) - that "cause cancer" by people who are within arms length of electronic equipment all day while yapping on their cell phones-:)
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Dear Political Nick,

It sounds to me like you are not afraid to excercise your rights and I commend you for that. I do know that many people arent as informed about medication.

Also many of us were brought up believing that "Doctor knows best" and what ever the doc says to do or take,... we do it.

I also believe in accountability but how can we incorporate individual accountibility if someone is given a legal mind altering drug (from their doctor) who tells them it is the solution, to whatever ails them, only to find (after the fact) that these side affects are upon them (which include loss of reality) ... how can a person in that situation be held accountable?

Society has taught us (thankfully) that alcohol impairs your judgment and do so at your own risk. We teach our children that too from a very small age.

How can we put psychotropic meds into that same thought process when the general public hasnt been taught about the side affects of these drugs (which seem to me are swept under the carpet.)

Its been a good 2 generations that have been taught there is a pill out there that works for nearly any problem you are having.. (menopause to chronic pain) ... many people (who are prescribed these drugs) innocently do not know these black box warnings exist and if they do know, many are told that these side effects are so rare that you need not worry.. )

Hello no more drugs, and welcome to the forum.

Each post I am reading from you is anti-drug. I am neither anti nor pro since I would say that each situation is different and must be weighed carefully. My question to you is what do you propose for people who are in need of mood altering drugs?
 

no more drugs

Electoral Member
Jan 21, 2013
169
0
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Hello no more drugs, and welcome to the forum.

Each post I am reading from you is anti-drug. I am neither anti nor pro since I would say that each situation is different and must be weighed carefully. My question to you is what do you propose for people who are in need of mood altering drugs?

Hi Sal,

Thanks for your warm welcome..

First and foremost, I am 100 percent anti PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG ....

(however I do believe that there are some good pharmaceutical drugs out there where people benefit..).

I have been doing much research on the known side affects of psychotropic drugs and sadly they are linked in most violent murder suicides and mass murders (shootings, bombings, vehicle etc...)

In my research I found out that the admitted known side effects are agression, violence loss of reality, delusion and suicidal homidal ideation. This is no joke and it is listed on the drugs in "black box warnings".

I will agree that apparently these horrific side effects dont happen to everyone (which is just like many street drugs.. they cause some people to be violent but not all)

I stumbled upon the subject after the columbine shootings (they were on antidepressants and society and so many people suffered the consequences of homicidal and suicidal ideation.

It took much research on my part to believe that these pills were the driving force behind all of the school shootings, Vtech included..

Since then I started looking for the reports to come out in murder suicides and mass murders where a few years ago the media was always diligent in hunting down information re: antidepressants and toxicolgy and medical reports.


In the past couple of years I continued my research however I found it harder to find out if antidepressants were being taken or withdrawn from (by the perp)

In todays so many violent crimes it almost seems like the media have forgotten to ask the question to eye witnesses. In the Newtown Ct shootings 2 different people told a journalist (on video) that Adam Lanza was taking meds yet the media changed the subject and has helped the governemt distract the public with gun laws. Lets face it.. There is no known side effect that guns cause suicidal and homicidal ideation. I dont disagree that guns should be banned however it seems more logical to stop what causes these known urges, which has to be the head drugs.. It is the common thread in al these killings.

I have found out that if the killer also dies, no charges get laid which means that the tox and medical reports never become public (even to the famillies) so we dont get to0 learn what antidepressant he was on or withdrawing from.

If we look at the Aurora killer ..he lived and his tox reports and medical reports were surprisingly released and not sealed like so many others.

It is alleged in court docs that the shooter told his then psychiatrist Dr. Lynn Fenton that he was fantisizing about killing people ...lots of them which was 6 weeks before he went to the movie theatre in Colarado and killed several. It is unclear as to whether his dosage was upped, or if he had another psychotropic added, or came off one but apparently he was having the known side affect f the drug like so many others that go unsaid.

Society is being robbed by not having these tox and medical reports made public as not many everyday people are aware of the side affects let alone the number of these crimes that are being committed hand over fist.

In reading many forums it is clear that everyday people dont know about these drugs and seemiingly dont want to.

It is said that 1 in 10 North Americans are taking them, and it will only get worse this year as the new DSM (Diagnosing mental health manual) is coming out next month which is said to have increased all the symptoms of what "mental illness" is so pretty soon most people will fall under the medical criteria that they need to be medicated.

I write for the good of the people as if one person decides to look into it and to believe that these drugs need to be stopped, it gives me hope.

I believe Alsion Easton and Peter Lefabvre are victims of the side affects of psychotropic drugs whether taking, changing the dose or withdrawing from....

I believe that diet, (vitamin B's, excercise, sleep and cognitive behaviorial therapy are the answers to help. In cases where brain trauma or mood swings are excessive, sedatives under striick observation and control are the only solution.

For everyday people these pills seem to cause mental illness in many where people who had never had mental issues, start taking these things for different reasons like chronic pain, then they cant get off them, and then they are told by thier doctor that they have mental illness.. because many docs arent aware that withdrawl gives all the symtpms of mental illness (psychosis mania suicide homicide etc... )

Mental illness has been around forever but these violent crimes ...stabbings beatings shooting bombing etc are new since antidepressants started in the late 70's early 80's ..If you go into google and type in antidepressants and school shooting you will see for yourself they were on or withdrawing from psychotropic drugs.. sadly these facts seem to be concealed from the public now... people are not getting the real picture of all the circumstances in these killings..
 

no more drugs

Electoral Member
Jan 21, 2013
169
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16
Hi Karrie,

Just to clarify on my quote above re: Mental illness has been around forever but these violent crimes ...stabbings beatings shooting bombing etc are new....

I realize that violence and crimes have been around forever however the type of violent crimes we have been seeing in the past few decades has become epidemic. Murder suicides are almost daily news.. with a common trend of antidepressant use or withdraw by the perps.

Many of these killers described by people that knew them well, (family and close friends) as kind gentle good non violent people who were being treated with psychotropic drugs..

Just wondering if you think it is in the publics best interest to be advised what (if any) psychotropic drug history is involved in violent mass murders and murder suicide"s?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Hi Karrie,

Just to clarify on my quote above re: Mental illness has been around forever but these violent crimes ...stabbings beatings shooting bombing etc are new....

I realize that violence and crimes have been around forever however the type of violent crimes we have been seeing in the past few decades has become epidemic. Murder suicides are almost daily news.. with a common trend of antidepressant use or withdraw by the perps.

Many of these killers described by people that knew them well, (family and close friends) as kind gentle good non violent people who were being treated with psychotropic drugs..

Just wondering if you think it is in the publics best interest to be advised what (if any) psychotropic drug history is involved in violent mass murders and murder suicide"s?

I don't doubt that heinous crimes committed by whacked out people happen or are at least exacerbated by prescribed drugs, I think it's probably quite rare but we all react differently to drugs, some of us are allergic to penicillin so I don't see why someone couldn't be "allergic" to drugs for mental illness. However that is NOT to say that these drugs aren't beneficial in the majority of cases.
 

no more drugs

Electoral Member
Jan 21, 2013
169
0
16
Especially when they use conspiracy theory to fill in any information that is missing to confirm their opinion. For example, 'no more drugs' holds the opinion that if Anti-d's weren't brought up in a violent killing, then it's because the toxicology was suppressed and the family was socially bullied into not saying anything.

I believe the reason antidepressant use is being concealed is because of several reasons..

1.) The pharmaceutical pays for our media

2.) Psychotropic drugs is the biggest cash cow for pharmaceutical companies

3.) The fear of legal actions exists, which is a deterrant for many news agencies.

CNN stopped running psychotropic ads the day of the Newtown shooting. They started them again 2 weeks later. Why do you think that was?

Do you find it strange that not one reporter asked any questions to witnesses re: Adam Lanza's medication allegations by several close people to him?

Our society is more political than ever .. FOIP HIPPA etc..... Doctors who have treated these perps have the privacy to protect their identity therefore the medical history is off limits.

In the meantime society is robbed from information on psychotropic involvement in so many violent crimes which keeps these drugs out of the news and in peoples homes.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
I believe the reason antidepressant use is being concealed is because of several reasons..

1.) The pharmaceutical pays for our media

2.) Psychotropic drugs is the biggest cash cow for pharmaceutical companies

3.) The fear of legal actions exists, which is a deterrant for many news agencies.

CNN stopped running psychotropic ads the day of the Newtown shooting. They started them again 2 weeks later. Why do you think that was?

Do you find it strange that not one reporter asked any questions to witnesses re: Adam Lanza's medication allegations by several close people to him?

Our society is more political than ever .. FOIP HIPPA etc..... Doctors who have treated these perps have the privacy to protect their identity therefore the medical history is off limits.

In the meantime society is robbed from information on psychotropic involvement in so many violent crimes which keeps these drugs out of the news and in peoples homes.


:roll::roll:


Just curious, how long has it been since you changed the tinfoil?
 

no more drugs

Electoral Member
Jan 21, 2013
169
0
16
I'll sure as hell take my chances with a professional (whose credentials are usually easily checked) than the word of someone with enough facts to be dangerous but not enough to know the whole situation.-:)

Checking credentials...lol on Ratemydoctor????

Same goes for any service we pay for.... if we feel the need to walk into someone's office for say, an evaluation on our broken down car, we're likely going to have to defer to the advice given us, or else we'd have fixed the problem ourselves already.

Exactly!
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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In the bush near Sudbury
Have you ever considered that lobbying to keep marijuana illegal, hiding things like graviola and soursop, and income from antidepressants helps to fund research and subsidize production of orphan drugs? No drug is the perfect fit for everyone.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
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36
Edson, AB
I'm of two minds about this. First I hate the "drugstore mentality" that a lot of people maintain without question. Second, I wouldn't go to a doctor whose advice I wouldn't follow. No use getting professional advice just to ignore it. My doctor is good and he agrees with my logic about following a healthy lifestyle first and then do final tweaking with a prescription.

I go to the doctor and tell them what is wrong with me. Since I am the one who knows what is wrong I am also the one that tells them what I want to fix it. Let's be real here. If you go to a doctor and just say I am not well and don't give them any other information they will do a million bucks worth of tests and still not be able to definitively tell you what your problem is. The sooner people realize that doctors are not miracle workers and do not know everything and cannot diagnose anything without your help and information the better off we will all be. The old saying always sticks in my mind..."first heal thyself" and that is what I do.

Not to mention the drain on our medical systems because everyone rushes to the doctor for every cold, sniffle & flu. Things like menopause have been around since human life began but it is only in the last 25 years it has apparently needed close medical care at great expense.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,399
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Alberta
Too bad he wasn't American then he could have saved a lot of labour, you know all that swinging and hitting, he could have just pumped a dozen rounds into her as fast as he could pull the trigger.
Whoo hoo! Bushmaster ACR

It would have been far less painful I'm sure. Perhaps we can implement a fist registry.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I go to the doctor and tell them what is wrong with me. Since I am the one who knows what is wrong I am also the one that tells them what I want to fix it. Let's be real here. If you go to a doctor and just say I am not well and don't give them any other information they will do a million bucks worth of tests and still not be able to definitively tell you what your problem is. The sooner people realize that doctors are not miracle workers and do not know everything and cannot diagnose anything without your help and information the better off we will all be. The old saying always sticks in my mind..."first heal thyself" and that is what I do.

Not to mention the drain on our medical systems because everyone rushes to the doctor for every cold, sniffle & flu. Things like menopause have been around since human life began but it is only in the last 25 years it has apparently needed close medical care at great expense.

The patient provides the symptoms, the doctor provides the diagnosis! -:)
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
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Edson, AB
While No More Drugs may be a bit 'in your face' and seem over the top in his/her stance on psychotropics I cannot disagree that they are absolutely overused and in many cases make things worse. It seems to me that any kind of positive therapy in the psychiatric community has been replaced by a bottle of pills. Someone asked about those that NEED mood-altering drugs, well those that actually NEED them are few and far between. The rest are just being medicated for profit. As an example, my girlfriend was prescribed a mood altering substance for her 'depression' after her husband walked out 3 years ago. There was no therapy, no group session with positive attitude change, no doctor telling her that her feelings and reactions were normal and she will work through them, just a bottle of pills every month. This went on for almost 2 full years until I found out and got involved. I tore the doctor a new one and showed her the research on the 'medication' (if I dare call it that) and we developed a program to wean her off the garbage. It took 4 months and many mood swings and hissy-fits but she got off the drugs and is now stronger and happier than ever. You would not believe how much more vibrant and alive she is WITHOUT the pills. I am told by her constantly how grateful she is to be clear of the fog & haze she had lived in for 2 years. The big issues here are the doctor's first reaction was to prescribe the damn things and then his continuation of the medication without any sign or mention of ever stopping. I don't think this kind of thing is uncommon and my point is humans survived for thousands of years without this crap and did just fine so why the f*ck does such a high percentage of the populace need them now. IMHO they don't!

The patient provides the symptoms, the doctor provides the diagnosis! -:)

Maybe for you but I provide both as well as what is required by me to treat the issue. My doctor, whether he likes it or not, is required (by me) to thoroughly educate me on any tests and their results he may do. If he says my cholesterol is high I make sure he can tell me what indicators he is using and why he makes that diagnosis from them, then I look into it myself along with possible treatments and we discuss options before I decide what I want to do for treatment. It may sound like I'm a pain in the a$$ but Jason says I am his favorite patient because I am informed and active in my health management and I make the decisions.

The funny thing here is other than a couple of NSAIDs after a hockey game the only pills I have taken in 5 years are my Periot to control GERD. One little yellow magic smartie every morning and I eat and drink what I please without any trouble.