Idle No More -Where is the Leadership?

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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Why do you think the indians are so adamant about having the GG be part of any meetings and dealings?

That demand is misguided

They know their deals are with the British Crown and the Dominion of Canada.

Canada assumed those obligations upon separation. Idle No More is attempting to bring in the GG with some apparent idea that this will change things...

It won't

Since one of those no longer exists they have to try to bring in the other to uphold those deals.

The Queen can't force Canada to do anything... She has no power

Well let the Crown pay

Doubtful that will ever happen
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Not at all, but it would have made the world of difference. I advocate equality as Canadians. That means you are a Canadian with all the same rights and obligations as any other or go form your own country somewhere and stop demanding Canada owes you a living.

You made it clear that eradication, genocide, was your proffered way of handling things.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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You made it clear that eradication, genocide, was your proffered way of handling things.

Are you trying to spell preferred? ;-)

Read the link to Treaty 7 that is posted.... It's a surprisingly short and simple document.

Quite telling as well...

Made and concluded this twenty-second day of September, in the year of Our Lord, one thousand eight hundred and seventy-seven, between Her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen of Great Britain and Ireland, by Her Commissioners, the Honorable David Laird, Lieutenant-Governor and Indian Superintendent of the North-West Territories, and James Farquharson MacLeod, C.M.G., Commissioner of the North-West Mounted Police, of the one part, and the Blackfeet, Blood, Piegan, Sarcee, Stony and other Indians, inhabitants of the Territory north of the United States Boundary Line, east of the central range of the Rocky Mountains, and south and west of Treaties numbers six and four, by their Head Chiefs and Minor Chiefs or Councillors, chosen as hereinafter mentioned, of the other part.

So let the indians go after the crown. That is who their deal was with. Not Canada and not me.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Your people are British Parliamentarians?
Nope, Six Nations. Learn to read.

And what do you mean by your people? Are you a slave owner or an alien?
Please stop embarrassing yourself.

My people are humans and there is about 6 1/2 billion of us.
Excluding Injins of course.

So your people are from Mesopatamia and Babylon? Or are you Atlantean?
Nope, please learn to read. I'm getting tired of embarrassing you.

So were about forty-five others so which part is yours
Please, stop embarrassing yourself.

None are. Show me one with its' own borders, its' own currency, its' own economy and a standing army. Other than that the natives are merely a collection defeated people and bad negotiators.
What an utterly stupid statement, based on complete ignorance.

We've been through this before.
Yes, and I embarrassed you with the facts then too.

But do you pay the same as everyone else.
I'd hazard a guess, I've paid far more than you in the past 15 years.

Do you pay for medical?
Yes, I purchase my own BlueCross package.

Do you pay for Dental?
Yes, through my BlueCross.

Do you pay for your education?
Yes.

Do you pay for your kid's education?
That depends. I've paid for my oldest. But my youngest is up for a grant.

Face it, you are not like every Canadian.
You're right. I'm me.

You have a special set of laws and special rights that advantage you more than any other taxpayer.
No I don't. Stop posting idiocy.

That is not equality, that is a self-centered, little baby trying to act like a grown-up.
That's exactly what I think you are, lol.

You should just apologize for being an idiot.
I would if I was. But the only idiocy around here is in your posts.

Neither did Canada.
So? Canada is still a Commonwealth. It's a constitutional monarchy.

You really should go back to school or at the very least pick up a book. My kids have a better grasp of what Canada was, is than you do.

Then you should look to the royals that were around in 1763. We don't have Royal rule in this country anymore so you really should be SOL.
Seriously, the idiocy contained in your posts is almost overwhelming. Canada is a constitutional monarchy.

The Haudenosaunee were British parliamentarians?
Geezus, can you ask any more idiotic questions?

If you call Greece Eastern.
Nope. Again, please stop embarrassing yourself.

It's been recorded in the Library of Congress. I've posted links numerous times, embarrassing you time and time again.

Indians seem to not be able to 'build' anything without govt help and money.
You seem unable to educate yourself about what Canada is.

Yes, I laugh at you too.

Well you're definitely a fruit!
LOL, I know you wish I was. I've seen you profile pic. Navy material all the way, lol.

I don't know but Bear is red on the outside and white in the middle....
LOL, zoooooom.
Why would the GG need to attend. He is a representative of the crown and the crown has NO legal authority or standing in Canada.

Screw the FN. If they want to deal with the crown they had better move to England where it has some authority.
How many times do you have to be embarrassed when we prove that nonsense wrong?


That is the Dominion of Canada, a British colony ruled by the Crown, not the country of non-monarchial Canada we have today formed by adoption of an un-ratified constitution in 1982.
...

Actually Ron there is a huge difference legally. The Dominion of Canada was ruled by the British monarchy, Canada is not. It is like Ukraine or Georgia that were once part of the USSR but are now independent, sovereign nations. As they are not bound by treaties and trade agreements made by the USSR we are not bound by treaties made by the British Crown.
LMAO!!!

Well the stupid old f*ckers are wrong.
I'd like to see your legal argument to support that.

I've read theirs.

I bet your's is based on the idiocy contained in all you silly posts on First Nations.

You might want to read the actual agreement(s)... If taken by the strict words of the contracts made in good faith, the FNs may find that they have a steep road ahead of them.
They were made living documents by the Crown, when both the British and later Canada acted to modify them to better exploit resources.

Legally binding on who?
Canada, as has been proven to you more than once.
I cannot, under the law, be forced to be accountable for a contract I was not a party to.
You are party to it. You're benefiting from them, lol.

Since I, nor Canada as it exists today, were a party to the treaties we are not accountable.
Wrong.

Now if you want to change that law then I am making a contract where you have to pay all my taxes and my mortgages and give me a stipend for living expenses in perpetuity and there won't be a damn thing you can do about it.
The idiocy in your posts abounds.

The real crux of the matter here Gh is that we (taxpaying Canadians) are being forced to foot the bill for deals we never agreed to, and couldn't have agreed to, because we were not alive when they were made.
But you're benefiting from the contract, lol.

I for one think that is ludicrous.
That's because you have no idea what you're talking about, lol.

If the indians want to preserve their culture well more power to them but not on my dime. Other than that they should get the EXACT SAME benefits and advantages and responsibilities that EVERY Canadian has, no more, no less.
They actually get less.

That's been proven too, lol.

They were signed by the Crown, not the present Canadian Federal Govt.
Which is the Crown, lol.

When we booted the british monarchy as our rulers in 1982 all those 'contracts' became void.
LMAO!!! What a completely moronic statement.

We never booted the British. Canada is a Commonwealth, constitutional monarchy.

You are also aware I hope of the 99 year rule regarding contracts.
Treaties are not subject to all principles of contract law, lol.

I love it when you prove you don't know what you're talking about.

Of course if we had just followed the US a few hundred years ago and eradicated the indians we would have saved trillions and not be having this discussion. Bad decisions made all round it would seem.
Yep, Gh was right, you support genocide.

I'm not surprised.

You've always come across like a 1960's good ole white sheet wearing southern goon.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Yep, Gh was right, you support genocide.

I'm not surprised.

You've always come across like a 1960's good ole white sheet wearing southern goon.


if I could have given you a couple more thumbs up for this I would have. It's never surprising when the bigots finally out themselves.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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if I could have given you a couple more thumbs up for this I would have. It's never surprising when the bigots finally out themselves.
They just aren't very bright. PN outed himself long ago.

Any thread on First nations that he's participated in are filled with examples. To go from illegally breaking the treaties to advocating murder, wholesale slaughter and genocide, comes as no big surprise.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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They were made living documents by the Crown, when both the British and later Canada acted to modify them to better exploit resources.

Take a read of the doc I posted (specific to Treaty 7)... Understand that I'm not taking any position in this, but if this is a debate on contracts, this specific example might give pause for thought. Below is the excerpt that would raise serious questions:

"And Her Majesty the Queen hereby agrees with her said Indians, that they shall have right to pursue their vocations of hunting throughout the Tractsurrendered as heretofore described, subject to such regulations as may, from time to time, be made by the Government of the country, acting under the authority of Her Majesty and saving and excepting such Tracts as may be required or taken up from time to time for settlement, mining, trading or other purposes by Her Government of Canada; or by any of Her Majesty's subjects duly authorized therefor by the said Government."
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Take a read of the doc I posted (specific to Treaty 7)... Understand that I'm not taking any position in this, but if this is a debate on contracts, this specific example might give pause for thought. Below is the excerpt that would raise serious questions:

"And Her Majesty the Queen hereby agrees with her said Indians, that they shall have right to pursue their vocations of hunting throughout the Tractsurrendered as heretofore described, subject to such regulations as may, from time to time, be made by the Government of the country, acting under the authority of Her Majesty and saving and excepting such Tracts as may be required or taken up from time to time for settlement, mining, trading or other purposes by Her Government of Canada; or by any of Her Majesty's subjects duly authorized therefor by the said Government."
The fact that you just shot a huge hole in PN's nonsense, aside.

Do you see the contradiction in the text?

How can you pursue hunting in an open pit?

This is where the living document comes into play.

You can't hunt a deforested area. So other areas were set aside in lieu of. Not always hunt-able either, but hey, who cares.

At least that's my take on it, based on historical actions.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Excluding Injins of course.

Yep, we're across the 7 billion threshold now on the planet. It's hard to come up with a definition of indigenous people that everyone can agree to, but by UN counts it was over 370 million in 2010. That's fairly close to making up the difference...
Yep, Gh was right, you support genocide.
Yeah, not even support alone but lament that it wasn't done...that is one of the more bizarre truths that I've seen someone state explicitly on these pages.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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The fact that you just shot a huge hole in PN's nonsense, aside.

Do you see the contradiction in the text?

How can you pursue hunting in an open pit?

This is where the living document comes into play.

You can't hunt a deforested area. So other areas were set aside in lieu of. Not always hunt-able either, but hey, who cares.

At least that's my take on it, based on historical actions.

I am not taking any position on this, I am only noting that the document was careful to incorporate an 'out' for the Crown in terms of a number of situations.

As per the living document, I do understand the impact that it can have, but it's a 2-way street in that it also offers a degree of flexibility for gvt/Crown.

Anyways, I'm only looking at this as a debate on a contract and/or contract law, my commentary is in no way a pro or con stance on the issues that are at the heart of the matter
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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if I could have given you a couple more thumbs up for this I would have. It's never surprising when the bigots finally out themselves.

I'm not a bigot Gerry. I have a very diverse and multi-cultural circle of friends and acquaintances. The one thing they all have in common is that they don't live in the past or try and rectify things from the past but look toward a better future free from any special interests, where everyone is treated equally and on equal footing without any hand-outs from any govt. Where everyone is held personally accountable for their own lives and NO excuse is acceptable for not succeeding.

My issue with the indians is the way these blockheads think they can bring up things from a century or 2 ago and ask people today to pay them for things that happened to their ancestors. I feel bad for the way some natives were treated (just like I feel bad for the way Africans were captured and sold into slavery) but that doesn't mean I should pony-up my paycheck to make their great-grandchildren feel better. Granting them anything, even hunting & fishing rights, sets them aside from other members of our society instead of forcing them to be a part of it like every other person which, in my opinion, is a far better course of action. It is our classification of the natives as different and our attempts to molly-coddle them into remaining in the past that is the biggest problem and it needs to stop.

If these attitudes make you think I am a bigot then that is your issue because in reality I am as colour-blind as they come treating each individual on their own merits and actions. I don't discriminate, i have the same feelings toward any white man or Asian or African that believes they are down-trodden when they won't just get on with life and move forward. A welfare bum is a welfare bum regardless of race, creed or colour.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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Of course if we had just followed the US a few hundred years ago and eradicated the indians we would have saved trillions and not be having this discussion. Bad decisions made all round it would seem.

What an ignorant and absolutely disgusting statement that is.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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What an ignorant and absolutely disgusting statement that is.
Which proves the post above yours, to be a giant load of BS.

My issue with the indians is the way these blockheads think they can bring up things from a century or 2 ago and ask people today to pay them for things that happened to their ancestors. I feel bad for the way some natives were treated (just like I feel bad for the way Africans were captured and sold into slavery) but that doesn't mean I should pony-up my paycheck to make their great-grandchildren feel better. Granting them anything, even hunting & fishing rights, sets them aside from other members of our society instead of forcing them to be a part of it like every other person which, in my opinion, is a far better course of action. It is our classification of the natives as different and our attempts to molly-coddle them into remaining in the past that is the biggest problem and it needs to stop.
Geezus, can you post anything that is filled with idiocy?

We bought those rights.

We traded land and resources for them.

The rest of your post is pure BS. You're a bigot that laments about not murdering men, women and children.

You are the epitome of ignorant.

Although you do deserve some kudos for not trying to defend your previous idiotic claims.

I hope that's a sign that you now understand that you don't know contractual/treaty law, you don't know what Canada is, and you certainly don't know anything about the First nations.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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I AM THE NEW LEADER OF IDLE NO MORE. I HAVE BEEN AGAINST IDLE (actually against slack and idle) SINCE THE MID 80's WHEN MY DRILL SERGEANT PROCLAIMED: QUIT BEING SO SLACK AND IDLE OR ILL RIP OUT YOUR EYE AND SKULL **** YOU. BEEN A SUPPORTER EVER SINCE!
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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What an ignorant and absolutely disgusting statement that is.

It is a simple truth, nothing more. You don't see many tribes from Central/South America or Africa doing what the natives are doing here. Why? Because they were wiped out completely.

That doesn't mean I suggest genocide is an option to us, it simply means had it happened there wouldn't be the strife and discord we see in this country today. Had the explorers and settlers foreseen the issues their prodginy would encounter they may have made different decisions than making treaties.

You don't have to like the truth or how I speak it but ti is the truth. As usual peoples emotions get in the way and you see members like Gerry saying I promote genocide and your comment quoted. If you get over your emotional reaction and look at the facts clinically you will see I am right in my statement. It being twisted to me advocating extermination of a people based on race is on you guys. You all forget my heritage, which is Jewish. My family suffered losses in the holocaust and believe me, I can see there would be a lot less problems with the middle-East today had Hitler been successful in his plan. Just the simple fact.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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It is a simple truth, nothing more. You don't see many tribes from Central/South America or Africa doing what the natives are doing here. Why? Because they were wiped out completely.

Are you really that ****ing stupid?