Attawapiskat chief goes on hunger strike

[Sal]

Who is asking for something for nothing.
This is not about some hand out and free ride.

It's about sharing the countries resources and revenue equally.
Bremusa

But we don't know that yet do we.

Sharing how? I'm just asking, sharing how? This system isn't working, that's what I'm saying.

Do you think the average native living on a reserve is living an awesome lifestyle on free money?

I don't know. When my girlfriend did outback nursing there was a lot of squalor, and the money seemed to be in the hands of a few. My other girlfriend who is native does not live on a reserve. She goes to work every day just like I do. She doesn't even claim the tax when she makes purchases. She has pretty much the same lifestyle level that I do and she has made it all by herself, just like I have. So I'm just asking so I can learn, what is owed, to whom and why.

 

[Bremusa]

But we don't know that yet do we.

Sharing how? I'm just asking, sharing how? This system isn't working, that's what I'm saying.

I don't know. When my girlfriend did outback nursing there was a lot of squalor, and the money seemed to be in the hands of a few. My other girlfriend who is native does not live on a reserve. She goes to work every day just like I do. She doesn't even claim the tax when she makes purchases. She has pretty much the same lifestyle level that I do and she has made it all by herself, just like I have. So I'm just asking so I can learn, what is owed, to whom and why.

Thank you for the civility.
I am starting to think it's all a hazing ritual and anything that can be said will be said to me.
lol.

I think the Idle No More movement is about corruption.
Simply put the Chiefs and Band Councils always live better than the rest.
The interaction between the Canadian Government and the Chiefs has done little to solve the social issues, health issues, education issues, living condition issues.
Moneys granted the Band Councils just doesn't seem to be put to the use the Idle No More people feel it should.

I feel that the Canadian Government could do so much more. And sharing the wealth to get it done should not be an issue.

Never I have even alluded to free welfare, or more welfare nor has the movement.

Thats the stereo typical propaganda thats been the underbelly of our relationship with the founding people's of this Land.

It's time to readjust what a Native Canadian is born into. They should have all the expectations afforded them just like some Catholic born on Spadina.
The Schools , the housing, the education, the health care facilities.
I strongly feel most of all ,the ability to dream big.


Bremusa

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Do you think the average native living on a reserve is living an awesome lifestyle on free money?

Nope, but I think the average citizen living on a reserve is getting screwed by their leadership.

 

[Cliffy]

She's up her ***. Face it.

You couldn't follow along? It's why I added pictures even though the story is really easy to understand already.

Affordable housing isn't a huge problem with an easy solution right outside her tipi?

It's better to have expensive kit mining camp style housing shipped from New Brunswick than permanent homes and jobs from available, abundant, Rez supplied natural materials on site by only setting up an aseembly line in the community center?

Eco housing buit on site with available materials is a no brainer. Even the shavings can be used for wood gas heat and electricty leaving a highvalue biomass afterward.

All nice and "use the whole buffalo" , "give back to the Creator" and "It's our way" type stuff to boot.

Now this makes sense. Your previous post, complete with pictures, was not so clear.

 

[Sal]

Thank you for the civility.

Welcome, I'm not here to win, I'm here to learn and have fun.

I am starting to think it's all a hazing ritual and anything that can be said will be said to me.
lol.

Nah, just different styles of presentation... ya fight in one thread, agree in another, and agree to disagree in yet a third.

I think the Idle No More movement is about corruption.
Simply put the Chiefs and Band Councils always live better than the rest.

But if that is true, that is not our problem. That is an internal problem best solved internally, no?

The interaction between the Canadian Government and the Chiefs has done little to solve the social issues, health issues, education issues, living condition issues.
Moneys granted the Band Councils just doesn't seem to be put to the use the Idle No More people feel it should.

Well then the Idle No More need to distribute the wealth better. Also we all know children do as they see. They need to see better sharing and leadership to get out out the cesspool, not more money from us.

I feel that the Canadian Government could do so much more. And sharing the wealth to get it done should not be an issue.

Never I have even alluded to free welfare, or more welfare nor has the movement.

So then we don't have to give more, right? Because it isn't working. What more can the government do?

Thats the stereo typical propaganda thats been the underbelly of our relationship with the founding people's of this Land.

I don't know if that's all propaganda, my girlfriend does just fine...why don't they?

It's time to readjust what a Native Canadian is born into.

Agreed

They should have all the expectations afforded them just like some Catholic born on Spadina.

Okay, that means nothing more than can be provided for by their parents and our health care system now right?

The Schools , the housing, the education, the health care facilities.

And if it is not taken care of properly, then what?

I strongly feel most of all ,the ability to dream big.

Every Canadian can dream big, but you have to stay in school, stay sober and move on with your life. You can't just dream, you have to do it. One can give another the tools, but what if they don't use them? What are you going to do?

 

[Cliffy]

Nope, but I think the average citizen living on a reserve is getting screwed by their leadership.

Probably on most reserves. It is much more complicated. Democracy is not that natural to many native cultures and is always fraught with corruption. In fact, I don't see all that much difference between reserve management corruption and that of Ottawa or Victoria.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Probably on most reserves. It is much more complicated. Democracy is not that natural to many native cultures and is always fraught with corruption. In fact, I don't see all that much difference between reserve management corruption and that of Ottawa or Victoria.

Well then you need to educate yourself a little more and drop the bias. There is a distinct difference and this Chief, if she were a sitting MP, would already be out on her ***.

 

[Goober]

Probably on most reserves. It is much more complicated. Democracy is not that natural to many native cultures and is always fraught with corruption. In fact, I don't see all that much difference between reserve management corruption and that of Ottawa or Victoria.

Cliffy that is so demeaning to First Nations people-democracy not natural to FN Peoples. I would disagree.

They want honesty - Both from the ruling chiefs and the Govt - Some bands are utterly corrupt and others are not.

Explain why the national chiefs were against the Charter being to cover FN Women. If I recall correctly it was supposed to be enacted 9 months after the Charter was passed. took nearly 30 years.

 

[Cliffy]

Cliffy that is so demeaning to First Nations people-democracy not natural to FN Peoples. I would disagree.

The only group that had democracy, that I know of, were the Iroquois confederacy. Most traditional societies were run by a council of elders and consensus.

They want honesty - Both from the ruling chiefs and the Govt - Some bands are utterly corrupt and others are not.

Explain why the national chiefs were against the Charter being to cover FN Women. If I recall correctly it was supposed to be enacted 9 months after the Charter was passed. took nearly 30 years.

I have no idea but perhaps it was blocked because most chiefs were men? Traditionally, at least in my area and most bands that I am familiar with, the council was made up of women.

Well then you need to educate yourself a little more and drop the bias. There is a distinct difference and this Chief, if she were a sitting MP, would already be out on her ***.

Maybe, but where would one find unbiased information about this particular woman. All I have seen is mud flying in her direction, which usually makes me think there are ulterior motives. But I was talking in generalities.

 

[Goober]

The only group that had democracy, that I know of, were the Iroquois confederacy. Most traditional societies were run by a council of elders and consensus.

Is that not a form of democracy?

I have no idea but perhaps it was blocked because most chiefs were men? Traditionally, at least in my area and most bands that I am familiar with, the council was made up of women.

Protecting their power and discrimination. They were consulted heavily on the Charter and railed against this provision for nearly 30 years. They did not win any hearts and minds by opposing human rights. They lost respect because of their position.

Maybe, but where would one find unbiased information about this particular woman. All I have seen is mud flying in her direction, which usually makes me think there are ulterior motives. But I was talking in generalities.

It is out there yet she has had opportunity prior to this to clear the matter up. But she has failed to do so. The last thing needed is proof of corruption. But she must also be accountable to all. FN peoples and the rest of Canada.
Otherwise it will be used against the FN peoples. You know that as well as I.

 

[captain morgan]

It is out there yet she has had opportunity prior to this to clear the matter up. But she has failed to do so. The last thing needed is proof of corruption. But she must also be accountable to all. FN peoples and the rest of Canada.
Otherwise it will be used against the FN peoples. You know that as well as I.

Chief Spence had many opportunities to clear the air on this, she chose to (attempt) redirect the focal point by pursuing a PR stunt instead.

Based on the egregious conditions observable on this reserve in comparison to the lifestyles of the 'favored few' and the reality that a large amount of money has been directed to Attawapiskat, I think that it's pretty clear that she has a lot to lose when the truth comes to light.

Her PR stunt is nothing more than a sad attempt at a diversionary tactic. What I don't think that she understands is that her efforts will do more to demand accountability from the gvt as well as the average FN population.

 

[Bremusa]

Welcome, I'm not here to win, I'm here to learn and have fun.
Nah, just different styles of presentation... ya fight in one thread, agree in another, and agree to disagree in yet a third.

But if that is true, that is not our problem. That is an internal problem best solved internally, no?

Well then the Idle No More need to distribute the wealth better. Also we all know children do as they see. They need to see better sharing and leadership to get out out the cesspool, not more money from us.

So then we don't have to give more, right? Because it isn't working. What more can the government do?
I don't know if that's all propaganda, my girlfriend does just fine...why don't they?

Agreed

Okay, that means nothing more than can be provided for by their parents and our health care system now right?
And if it is not taken care of properly, then what?
Every Canadian can dream big, but you have to stay in school, stay sober and move on with your life. You can't just dream, you have to do it. One can give another the tools, but what if they don't use them? What are you going to do?

It's a complicated issue Sal.

Everything that happens on Canadian soil is our problem.
Thats what being a country is all about.
Now there is this other reality.
The first Nations.


You say things like;
"not money from us"
"So then we don't have to give more, right?"

This seems to insinuate not only an us and them but an ours and theirs mentality.

It's all okay to build opera houses in Toronto and better facilities in Mississauga, but let them find the means and build their own.

Okay, that means nothing more than can be provided for by their parents and our health care system now right?
And if it is not taken care of properly, then what?
Every Canadian can dream big, but you have to stay in school, stay sober and move on with your life. You can't just dream, you have to do it. One can give another the tools, but what if they don't use them? What are you going to do

This in any other thread would have it's own meaning, but here.

What are you driving at when you talk of "And if it is not taken care of properly, then what?"?
Why is this of relevance in this topic "stay sober and move on with your life."

Then"You can't just dream, you have to do it".

I think we all know what your driving at here" One can give another the tools, but what if they don't use them?"


It is these stereo typical attitudes that need to be engineered with education out of the,for lack of a better euphemism ,the white man's paradigm.

 

[Cliffy]

Is that not a form of democracy?

I'm not sure that there was an election process. Don't forget that the life expectancy in the old days was about 40. If you managed to live beyond that, you were considered an elder. Very few did.

Protecting their power and discrimination. They were consulted heavily on the Charter and railed against this provision for nearly 30 years. They did not win any hearts and minds by opposing human rights. They lost respect because of their position.

I wonder where they learned to play that game? Residential schools perhaps?

It is out there yet she has had opportunity prior to this to clear the matter up. But she has failed to do so. The last thing needed is proof of corruption. But she must also be accountable to all. FN peoples and the rest of Canada.
Otherwise it will be used against the FN peoples. You know that as well as I.

If she is standing in the way of knowing the truth, she should be removed. If she is using the Idle no More movement to cover up her tracks, then it is up to aboriginal people to discredit her. (You might have noticed that I never use the term First Nations. It has no legal standing in international law while aboriginal does. The term also creates a bond with other aboriginal cultures world wide. Many of my friends prefer to be call Indians.)

 

[Goober]

My opinion- TRhere is enough ciooruption- Both within the Govt and First nation- Their is enough of us and against them on both sides.
The living conditions on many reserves is atrocious and has to be addressed.
Until both sides understand that not everything they want will be achieved.There will always be some differences
Change is required by both the Govt and First Nations.
Accountability is needed by both the Govt and First Nations.

Otherwise Oka is nothing compared to what will happen. And that train is running fast.

 

[Cliffy]

My opinion- TRhere is enough ciooruption- Both within the Govt and First nation- Their is enough of us and against them on both sides.
The living conditions on many reserves is atrocious and has to be addressed.
Until both sides understand that not everything they want will be achieved.There will always be some differences
Change is required by both the Govt and First Nations.
Accountability is needed by both the Govt and First Nations.

Otherwise Oka is nothing compared to what will happen. And that train is running fast.

You bet ya. Oka was a test of the metal of the Warrior Society. What was it... 36 warriors held off over 2000 armed enforcers of the dominant society? We ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

[Goober]

You bet ya. Oka was a test of the metal of the Warrior Society. What was it... 36 warriors held off over 2000 armed enforcers of the dominant society? We ain't seen nothin' yet.

And it is that view that some have that will cause problems. No mention of the Police Officer murdered? Why is that.
As to holding off- BS- It was all politics and agendas. Pure Politics and agendas by both sides.

 

[Cliffy]

And it is that view that some have that will cause problems. No mention of the Police Officer murdered? Why is that.
As to holding off- BS- It was all politics and agendas. Pure Politics and agendas by both sides.

I understand that the officer in question was killed by "friendly fire".

 

[Sal]

It's a complicated issue Sal.

Everything that happens on Canadian soil is our problem.

See this is the problem with reservations...there's separation they govern themselves.

Thats what being a country is all about.
Now there is this other reality.
The first Nations.


You say things like;
"not money from us"
"So then we don't have to give more, right?"

This seems to insinuate not only an us and them but an ours and theirs mentality.

Exactly right once again, reservation is separation. I am not entitled to the same tax privilege...and there are other privileges they can have too should they desire it which I can not avail myself of simply because my parents were from Britian. It DOES create an us and them mentality. One can not have it both ways.

It's all okay to build opera houses in Toronto and better facilities in Mississauga, but let them find the means and build their own.

Are you saying don't build opera houses in TO? It is a completely separate issue, one is about the arts the other is about human beings and their living conditions.

This in any other thread would have it's own meaning, but here.

Not sure what this refers to sorry.

What are you driving at when you talk of "And if it is not taken care of properly, then what?"?

What I am referring to is the amount of money already sunk into various reservations and yet it seems to quickly reduce itself to squalor, why is that?

Why is this of relevance in this topic "stay sober and move on with your life."

See the other thread on alcoholism, it is a problem on the reserves. There is a genetic predispositon that is higher in the native population.

Then"You can't just dream, you have to do it".

I think we all know what your driving at here"

What do you think I'm saying?

One can give another the tools, but what if they don't use them?"


It is these stereo typical attitudes that need to be engineered with education out of the,for lack of a better euphemism ,the white man's paradigm.

Wrong, changing my attitude will do nothing to help those on the reserve. Changing their attitude will. People need a hand up, not a hand out...we've already given the hand out and it didn't work.

There are just so many systemic issues here that need to be addressed and your average persons attitude has zero affect upon those issues. There is drug abuse, alcoholism, early pregnancy, abuse perpetrated upon the women, and children. It's a mess that I can't even begin to address there are just so many psychological components involved. Throwing more money at the problem is not the answer.

 

[L Gilbert]

The only group that had democracy, that I know of, were the Iroquois confederacy. Most traditional societies were run by a council of elders and consensus.

Anishinaabe had councils that discussed issues. Each clan had duties to perform, for instance an Otter clan might look after the people's defense, a fish clan might look after teaching, a bear clan might look after spirituality, etc. There were councils in each clan and if there was an issue that concerned the entire group, the councils discussed it. No-one was "chief" of anything; there were simply spokespersons for the councils, but anyone could have a say.
At any rate, this "chief" seems to be just an attention ***** using a cause for an excuse.

 

[taxslave]

My first group was Welsh/Irish a great many years back. Seems i need to sue Britain and Italy to get some "easier". Does anybody know how far back the sins of the fathers goes?

As far as the sob sisters can be convinced to fork over the cash for.
My wife comes from a Celtic enclave in the middle of Germany. Still has a Celtic name as do some of her friends there. How many times do you think they got over run down through the centuries.

Come to think of it my great grandparents survived the trail of Tears. Shouldn't I be compensated for the treatment they received?