A very Hitler Christmas
- Thread starter Locutus
- Start date
Hitler's national socialism was the extreme of the right wing after they hijacked the
socialist workers party. This is noted when it came to free enterprise which did well
under Hitler, Krupp, Seaman's, the big automakers and so on. They had to follow the
dictates of the State but they kept their wealth.
Hitler was into the ocult, he did allow the worship Nose Gods and they were looking
for reasons to change the focus of the Middle East to prove Christ was a non Jewish
Saviour more in keeping with the Nordic peoples. Thus we had the interest as
depicted in the Indiana Jones series fantasy yes but designed to capitalize on the
thinking of the Nazis at the time.
Was Hitler a Christian? No, by birth a Catholic as was Goebbels and a number of others
but they had stepped away from the true sense of the church Interesting the the
Vatican, was afraid of Hitler in one sense and pro Hitler in another. In Berlin, the Germans
were always afraid of a backlash from the Pope and solicited his cooperation in other areas.
Many within the Vatican were sympathisers as well as witnessed at the end of the war
with the facilitation of Odessa
socialist workers party. This is noted when it came to free enterprise which did well
under Hitler, Krupp, Seaman's, the big automakers and so on. They had to follow the
dictates of the State but they kept their wealth.
Hitler was into the ocult, he did allow the worship Nose Gods and they were looking
for reasons to change the focus of the Middle East to prove Christ was a non Jewish
Saviour more in keeping with the Nordic peoples. Thus we had the interest as
depicted in the Indiana Jones series fantasy yes but designed to capitalize on the
thinking of the Nazis at the time.
Was Hitler a Christian? No, by birth a Catholic as was Goebbels and a number of others
but they had stepped away from the true sense of the church Interesting the the
Vatican, was afraid of Hitler in one sense and pro Hitler in another. In Berlin, the Germans
were always afraid of a backlash from the Pope and solicited his cooperation in other areas.
Many within the Vatican were sympathisers as well as witnessed at the end of the war
with the facilitation of Odessa
I see that you have once again floated to the top. You sure are a real floatie.
So once again I shall sink you.
The Straight Dope: Was Hitler a Christian?
The short answer is a definite "maybe" or, more precisely, "probably neither." The looooong answer is somewhat more complicated.
You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools. You really want confusion? Randy Alley, one of my best WWII history sources, noted that the SS were supposedly forbidden to believe in God--yet the military's belt buckles said "Gott mit uns" ("God is with us")! See photo, below.
First, let's look at what he said that seems to put him on the anti-Christian side:
According to a press release from Catholic League President, William A. Donohue (2/4/99): "Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said, 'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'" The Catholic League also quoted Hitler, in a 4/23/99 Op-Ed ad in the New York Times, as saying, "Antiquity was better than modern times, because it didn't know Christianity and syphilis." Ouch!
That said, we can move on to some other relevant info. Jehuda Bauer, Professor of Holocaust Studies at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, describes the real "god" of Hitler and the Nazis in his article, "The Trauma of the Holocaust: Some Historical Perspectives," by saying: ""They wanted to go back to a pagan world, beautiful, naturalistic, where natural hierarchies based on the supremacy of the strong would be established, because strong equaled good, powerful equaled civilized. The world did have a kind of God, the merciless God of nature, the brutal God of races, the oppressive God of hierarchies." In other words, definitely non-Christian.
Historian Paul Johnson wrote that Hitler hated Christianity with a passion, adding that shortly after assuming power in 1933, Hitler told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended "to stamp out Christianity root and branch."
Goober, the Catholic League is an right-wing apologist group patterned after other defence leagues. Sorry...
Catholic League - News and defending the Catholic Church. : Catholic League
We all can narrowly define organizations so we never have to accept responsibility. Harrumph!
Catholic League - News and defending the Catholic Church. : Catholic League
We all can narrowly define organizations so we never have to accept responsibility. Harrumph!
That's great.
But even a clock is right twice a day.
Can you find any fault in the article posted?
Yay.
I can post all sorts of criticisms about Hitchens.
But that doesn't answer my question.
Uuuu, III Publishing.
That's just awesome, never heard of them, and that still doesn't answer the question.
Hitler did not rise to power in a vacuum. Austria and Germany were (are) Christian in attitude, culture, and history, Antisemitism was part and parcel of the Christian ethos. To deny that is to deny the obvious.
Arguing the holocaust did not occur within an Existentialist context is revisionist as well... Hell, why limit this to philosophical revisionist theory; let's consider this from the perspective of Aesop and the many fables that he wrote and chastise the ancients for being Nazi's as well.
Other than the nutters, how many mainstream 'organizations' can you list that are willing to accept responsibility for this?
You sure seem hell bent on vilifying just Catholics and turning a blind eye to any and everyone else.
Didn't Colpy provide a link on the notion that Hitler and Catholicism was a proven fallacy?
That's not in denial.
What is patently false is, that Adolph was a Christian in anything but a facade.
What he preached at the podium, is not what he believed in his mind, nor what he conveyed to his peers out of the spot light.
Anyone can stand before the mic and say anything the audience wants to here, politicians today have mastered it.
To deny that politicians tell people what they want to hear, and not what he/she really believes, is to deny the obvious.
With Adolph's own words no less.
Was Antisemitism rampant in Europe- Yes- Look at Europe as the Poles, Ukrainians, Hungarians, French and other countries assisted gladly at that in hunting down and identifying Jews. Babi Yar- Other massacres where the local population- Non German went to watch the mass killings.
He used the Jews as his anvil. And the Slavs as well as other ethnic groups.
To deny that he used whatever tool was available to him is also to deny the reality. Recall how he maintained power after gaining it- by fear- He studied the Soviets quite well.
You pick his quotes on Christianity and take them as Gospel (could not resist the pun) yet he lied on a continuous basis.
He was as you are aware into the occult- the super race- How does that equate with Christianity.
It is understandable that Christians and particularly Catholics might want to distance themselves from Hitler, but history says otherwise. The church blamed the Jews for killing Christ and persecuted Jews for almost 2000 years. Hitler was brought up in this attitude and religion and reflected his childhood prejudices in his writing and actions. I don't see Hitler as being anything other than a 30s and 40s version of the the crazed baptists screaming god hates fags. Yes they are all nuts, but claim to be Christians. Judging by their actions, they do not seem to be acting like the idealic christian image held by most Christians today, but, who is judging them?
Perhaps Hitler began to move away from his Christian beliefs but he did stay true to his Christian beliefs that the Jews were inferior. And since Christianity is based on Pagan beliefs and holidays, he did not seem too wonder to far from his original Christian doctrine.
And it is rather unfair to blame the holocaust entirely on the Nazis. The rest of the world knew what Hitler was up to and did nothing to stop him when they could prior to the war. Turning away the ship of fools places the blame squarely on everyone's shoulders. Pointing fingers at Hitler is a deflection of guilt and an act of denial. The whole world took part in the holocaust and now blindly supports Israel out of a sense of collective guilt.
Perhaps Hitler began to move away from his Christian beliefs but he did stay true to his Christian beliefs that the Jews were inferior. And since Christianity is based on Pagan beliefs and holidays, he did not seem too wonder to far from his original Christian doctrine.
And it is rather unfair to blame the holocaust entirely on the Nazis. The rest of the world knew what Hitler was up to and did nothing to stop him when they could prior to the war. Turning away the ship of fools places the blame squarely on everyone's shoulders. Pointing fingers at Hitler is a deflection of guilt and an act of denial. The whole world took part in the holocaust and now blindly supports Israel out of a sense of collective guilt.
I'm not a Christian.
I'm going by what the man himself stated candidly to his peers, his actions and the facts.
I find it odd that today you guys have no problem believing every word out of a politicians mouth is a lie.
But when Hitler uttered Christian views in speeches, he was being forthright and honest.
Sounds more like you guys have beliefs you are willing to set aside to further an agenda, than be objective and consistent.
No, I am not vilifying Catholics. It is just that Hitler was born into a Catholic family. He was baptized a Catholic.
Let's talk Luther then- the other face of Christian Germany/Austria.
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
Quote:
"Luther himself, towards the end of his life, was their (the Jewsish people's) greatest opponent. He poisoned the Protestant world for a long time to come, with his Jew-hating testament. Protestants became even more bitter against Jews that Catholics had been. The leaders of Catholicism demanded absolute submission to canonical law; but on that condition granted them permission to remain in Catholic countries; Luther on the other hand, required their absolute expulsion. . . . It was reserved for him to place Jews on a level with Gypsies. . . . He was the cause of their being expelled by Protestant princes. (Grätz)"