Death knell for AGW

captain morgan

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No doubt... Kinda like basing 'reality' on skewed statistical models.

On a more fun note though, factoring-in just one continental ice-age would end the debate pretty fast. (I wonder why that never happens?)
 

petros

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No doubt... Kinda like basing 'reality' on skewed statistical models.

On a more fun note though, factoring-in just one continental ice-age would end the debate pretty fast. (I wonder why that never happens?)
In all those graphs posted hasn't anyone ever noticed inter-glacial periods end very very fast and dramatically or am I the only one who sees that?
 

EagleSmack

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More graphs and pie charts!

I was down at the ocean the other day... looks the same as it did when I was a kid. Oh well.

Artist rendering of Prehistoric Alaska...



...yes the climate will change.
 

EagleSmack

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No... they will just discredit the scientists. There is too much pride and money at stake to let science get in the way.
 

Tonington

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I wonder what the graph would look like if it spanned more than 40 years?

Good question. Longer time series are better for seeing the trend. A longer time series would not however give any more credibility to the assertion that global warming has stopped, or that we're entering a cooling phase. That's the whole point of that graphic I posted. The point is that there isn't any evidence that the global warming trend has stopped. Drawing a line between two cherry picked points to show that the temp is a few hundredths of a degree lower is not good science...

It's about as robust as a artist rendering of Prehistoric Alaska, which first of all wasn't even located in the Arctic...
 

EagleSmack

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Whereas somebody just draws a red line upwards even though the graph is leveling off and even going down at the end.

Yes the climate will change.
 

Tonington

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Whereas somebody just draws a red line upwards even though the graph is leveling off and even going down at the end.

Yes the climate will change.

Yeah... Notice how the spikes in all of those points and valleys don't appear to be getting any farther or lower above the red line. Those are called residuals. There isn't any evidence that the trend has changed ES.

Of course the line is gong to go up and down...that's expected behaviour.

Read some actual analysis, very simple to understand:
Temperature “analysis” by David Rose doesn’t smell so sweet | Open Mind
 

Tonington

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Notice the change in minuscule when compared to the lifespan of the earth.

Seen any of those Alaskan dinosaurs lately? The comparison is meaningless for biological responses today to today's changing conditions. :roll:
 

EagleSmack

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Seen any of those Alaskan dinosaurs lately? The comparison is meaningless for biological responses today to today's changing conditions. :roll:


You're right! By golly you're right! There are no dinosaurs. The climate was much warmer then...then became much colder... then warmed... etc etc etc.
 

captain morgan

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Good question. Longer time series are better for seeing the trend. A longer time series would not however give any more credibility to the assertion that global warming has stopped, or that we're entering a cooling phase. That's the whole point of that graphic I posted. The point is that there isn't any evidence that the global warming trend has stopped.

Extending the logic, particularly to the highlighted portion of your post, necessitates that a cooling cycle was interrupted/stopped in which a warming cycle had begun.

At what point do we recognize that the dual cycles exist? Considering that we do not really understand the mechanisms that drive the cycles, don't you feel that it would be scientifically irresponsible to assess causation to AGW as being a strong/primary driver?


Drawing a line between two cherry picked points to show that the temp is a few hundredths of a degree lower is not good science...

Speaking in general - your comment applies equally to arguments that support (or do not support) GW theory... That is the biggest problem that I have in this entire issue, the notion that the cycles repeat themselves when observed over a geologic time frame
 

EagleSmack

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Speaking in general - your comment applies equally to arguments that support (or do not support) GW theory... That is the biggest problem that I have in this entire issue, the notion that the cycles repeat themselves when observed over a geologic time frame

Exactly.

But they can't get money from that theory alone and to them it is a dangerous theory. Global Warming is big business... BIG BUSINESS.
 

captain morgan

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Tonington

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Extending the logic, particularly to the highlighted portion of your post, necessitates that a cooling cycle was interrupted/stopped in which a warming cycle had begun.

At what point do we recognize that the dual cycles exist?

We recognize that cycles exist when the proper analysis shows that they exist. There are plenty of climatologists out there who have studied cycles and pseudo-cyclic behaviour in the climate system. They use tools like Fourier Analysis.

What they don't do is eyeball a chart. There's no evidence that something has happened since 1998 to change the system CM. That's the point.

Evidence. Real evidence produced by analytical tools.

So everyone is probably familiar with standard deviation here? At least I hope...so there's a trend, and the points above and below an extrapolated trend-line will have a standard deviation. So that means there are predicted values in the future, but they are subject to the variation or noise that exists with the trend. The standard error of the estimate in this case is what that is called. I don't have Minitab or STATA on my home computer, but I could show it very clearly with my work computer, the temperature that has followed since 1998 fits within the standard error of the estimate when the trend pre-1999 is extended out until now. Even with all the statistical noise from year to year with ENSO/Solar cycles/aerosol loading, etc...there is no evidence that the trend has changed.

And most of all...all of this type of analysis should be done on all of the global surface temperature products, not on an average of them all. HadCRUT and GISS don't sample the polar regions in the same manner. The satellites aren't even measuring surface temperature.
 

EagleSmack

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Yep... Gore's net worth went from less than $1-2 million prior to his advocacy in that area to well over $100 MM at it's height.

He still flies around in a private lear jet; that is when he decides to leave his new $9 MM mansion in Montecito, California.

You can read about all the selfless work that he is doing here:
Stunning Pictures of Al Gore's New $9 Million Mansion Media Totally Ignored | NewsBusters.org

Absolutely. He is the messiah of the GW crowd and he's milking them for millions.

All these climate conferences at the end come up with one decision... PAY US!

And most of all...all of this type of analysis should be done on all of the global surface temperature products, not on an average of them all. .

All global surface temps is not the Arctic.

NEXT!



Ahhhhh... saving the planet from catastrophe one mansion at a time.