My Confession

L Gilbert

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Well the subject of God and sin is not "silly", that's just a straw man argument to make it sound as if the subject were fairytales.
And the subject isn't about fairy tales? There's no shred of evidence to suggest any gods, demons, fairies, etc. are any more than fantasies in the first place, yet people have been believing in such things since cognitive thought first popped into craniums.
We're talking about the biggest question(s) in life here, of course the Christian perspective should be counted!
Whose biggest question? IMO, all perspectives are helpful, but there are degrees of helpfulness.

I don't think that's very accurate, and my viewpoint is that teaching people that we're nothing but animals is harmful,
It's only harmful to those who think we are anything other than animals, albeit animals with a capacity for deep thought.
or that there's nothing wrong with sinful (therefore harmful) desires.
Those desires are subjective and sin is relative.
Or how about teaching people that if you believe in God you're "just stupid"?
I prefer "misled" or "delusional".
This doesn't cause harm to how people think?
I suppose it can if it rocks the basis of their beliefs. But people once believed that tomatoes were poisonous. So here we are today eating tomatoes. The harm seems to have been done to the belief in something silly. Have we all not benefited from that harm to the belief?

So there isn't a shred of positive evidence that atheism is true and accurate?
No more than there is for beliefs in deities and the like. But the probabilities are a larger part than actual evidence so far.
See, the Bible suggests that some magician poofed everything into existence and poofed humans onto the planet. There's absolutely no evidence supporting that.
Science has found evidence that the origins of life on this planet probably came from substances that landed here on meteorites and some of it evolved into living organisms.
Like I said, probabilities favor evidence, not belief.

where does that line between victim and victimizer get drawn?
In some circumstances people can be both victim and victimizer. For instance, who are the victims and victimizers of phobias?
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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Who defines what's guy or gal clothing? I'm sure Jesus's robes weren't Levi Strauss & Company or didn't button from the left

....& styles change, like Praxius mentioned above. I can't argue with Peaches about
how certain clothings make him feel, as that is such an individual thing & would be
different for every person.

In the early '90's, if a man wore a silk dress shirt, or now if a man wore a silk tie
with his suit, would that be wrong? David Wilcox sings about his silk underwear
(when he has gone uptown), so is he going to go to Hell?

In the 1700's, any man of means in most of Europe and many in the Americas
blurred the lines of dressing by gender by todays standards (think of paintings
of most of America's Founding Fathers). Should they be thought of in a poor
light due to this?

On baby blankets (& other blankets too), at the tops and bottoms, there
is usually a strip of silky material attached. Why would that be? What
comfort would a baby (or adult) derive from that being there, and
does that make it wrong for it to be there? Why is it there in the first
place...& should it only be there for female babies?

We all have clothing that we enjoy wearing more than the other things in
our drawers and closets. Is that wrong? I have some heavy Field Shirts
that have been washed enough times that they feel like chamois, & I enjoy
wearing them very much. Is that wrong? Does that mean my genetic make
up is twisted somehow and that I should punish myself? Does that mean
that I (or someone close to me) is going to be punished by a God if I don't?

Sorry Peaches, but though I understand that you are agonizing over the
situation that you have found yourself in for close to five decades, I just
don't understand the connection to God punishing you through punishing
your wife for being yourself as God made you. I am not religious (though
I consider myself spiritual, but that's a different Thread), and don't have that
filter/baggage (sorry, but I can't think of a better term at this point) to view your
situation through so I'm admittedly having a difficult time fathoming why you
are punishing yourself for you just being who you are.
 

Peaches

Nominee Member
Oct 19, 2012
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Getting the hang of this now...OK, the limits of science to prove or to disprove God does not mean God does not exist. How can one state as a fact there is no God? Therefore a belief/faith in a theory that can not be proven absolutely is just that. True there is no doctrine, no united church of atheism - Ha! but there you have it. Agnosticism a shrug of the shoulders is reasonable. At least Christians state that they believe in God, and have placed their Faith in Jesus. Einstein was not really a christian but acknowledged something that to him he called God enveloped in the mystery of the unknown - you can google that quote.

....& styles change, like Praxius mentioned above. I can't argue with Peaches about
how certain clothings make him feel, as that is such an individual thing & would be
different for every person.

In the early '90's, if a man wore a silk dress shirt, or now if a man wore a silk tie
with his suit, would that be wrong? David Wilcox sings about his silk underwear
(when he has gone uptown), so is he going to go to Hell?

In the 1700's, any man of means in most of Europe and many in the Americas
blurred the lines of dressing by gender by todays standards (think of paintings
of most of America's Founding Fathers). Should they be thought of in a poor
light due to this?

On baby blankets (& other blankets too), at the tops and bottoms, there
is usually a strip of silky material attached. Why would that be? What
comfort would a baby (or adult) derive from that being there, and
does that make it wrong for it to be there? Why is it there in the first
place...& should it only be there for female babies?

We all have clothing that we enjoy wearing more than the other things in
our drawers and closets. Is that wrong? I have some heavy Field Shirts
that have been washed enough times that they feel like chamois, & I enjoy
wearing them very much. Is that wrong? Does that mean my genetic make
up is twisted somehow and that I should punish myself? Does that mean
that I (or someone close to me) is going to be punished by a God if I don't?

Sorry Peaches, but though I understand that you are agonizing over the
situation that you have found yourself in for close to five decades, I just
don't understand the connection to God punishing you through punishing
your wife for being yourself as God made you. I am not religious (though
I consider myself spiritual, but that's a different Thread), and don't have that
filter/baggage (sorry, but I can't think of a better term at this point) to view your
situation through so I'm admittedly having a difficult time fathoming why you
are punishing yourself for you just being who you are.

That's fine, In truth I do not know why my wife has Alzheimer's and is going to die but all things work to the good to those who know Christ and are called according to his purpose. Read Job It is very long and the gist of that book are I am God - who are you to question why I do things. As a Christian I am in this position as a caregiver, I am an RN with 20 years experience and an MSN and a CDE, God certainly made provision for me to stay at home to care for my wife. Marriage is a blessing. Remember that if your wife is still vibrant and healthy I wish mine were. For me it is a point of Honor, Marriage is not to be entered into lightly, it is indeed a sacred bond and I will remain true to that vow - in sickness and in health till death do you part. This is sacraficial love, and a witness to others what marriage is. Perhaps this brings glory to God? But I have all that is needed to carry out what God has given to me. Here we were having achieved all of our goals, looking forward to enjoying what God had provided for us and the fruit of our labor only to have it lopped off! In my late 50's I will be alone no other partner will have been at my side for over 21 years through thick and thin - but that is life, our home is not here but in heaven.
Some say if it feels good do it, God certainly allows us to enjoy plenty of things, but if it is sick, twisted and perverted - a sin my friend as a Christian we are to do battle with the temptation of our sinful desires. For me the gist of it is women's clothing for me is not mere clothing and convicts me that it is wrong at least for me, utility kilts aside which I have no desire for.
 

Peaches

Nominee Member
Oct 19, 2012
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Hum...true. But the creation story can also be interpreted as an allegory for it has the rhythm and meter of poetry. God can use any means to bring about life out of the primordial mud to make man.

My first thought was that a public Internet message board may not be the best place to make a confession, and not merely because nobody here can absolve you. My second thought was that gerryh has it right, I can't see what you're doing as being sinful, at worst it's merely a little eccentric, and it's actually not that uncommon. I think you're beating yourself up over nothing.

Thanks for the kind thought it is the feelings which convict me - they are NOT just clothing to a Crossdresser far from it. Hence while I am past shame, and do accept who I am, to a great extent I am not embarassed but yes there is guilt in it because for me it is against God's will. I must be exceedingly careful not to delude myself or to rationalize it.

There ya go! Keep your chin up!



It's brutal out there. One tactic used by men trying to ignore sinful desires is to "bounce your eyes". As soon as you see one of your "triggers", immediately bounce your eyes somewhere else. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. (Phill. 4:8 )

I know it's tough, but you can do it! Remember what Jesus went through, your problems will always pale in comparison. Remember that you won't always have to go through this. You'll be free of it one day. Focus on that kind of glory and freedom!



I don't think your son would be a good choice unfortunately. Isn't there anyone else in your church? Not a priest, another believer who is a trusted friend?



Hang in there brother, it will all be worth it.



Your welcome. :)



Sir, please tell me why God allowed his words of Truth to coincide with lies put there by malicious men? Why would God do that Gerry? Why would He muddle it, hide it, bury it? I beg you. Why?

You claim that you have "opened your eyes and heart" and if I recall you stated "that you prayed about it and got the answer" (paraphrase). Well how come God hasn't done that for a billion Christians or more who believe that the bible is the Word of God in its entirety? I beg you. Why?



Well the subject of God and sin is not "silly", that's just a straw man argument to make it sound as if the subject were fairytales. We're talking about the biggest question(s) in life here, of course the Christian perspective should be counted! Every else but us?



Think about holding your newborn child, and the doctor comes along and sticks them with a vaccine. Temporary physical pain, or temporary harm. You can't explain to your child why they have to go through this, but it's for their own good obviously. Peaches guilt is necessary to warn him that what he's doing will harm him farther, it's for his own good. Ultimately, it is temporary for someone like Peaches because he won't have sinful desires in heaven obviously.

But, if one would rather enjoy sin and just see it as "a minor eccentricity of no particular importance", then by all means. God hands you over to the debased mind and desire you want. (Romans 1:24-28 ). He's perfectly fair. For people like Peaches, he may suffer a bit now, but it'll be worth it in the end. For others, God let's them have their fun, suffer later.



I don't think that's very accurate, and my viewpoint is that teaching people that we're nothing but animals is harmful, or that there's nothing wrong with sinful (therefore harmful) desires. Or how about teaching people that if you believe in God you're "just stupid"? This doesn't cause harm to how people think?



So there isn't a shred of positive evidence that atheism is true and accurate?

I will seek out someone, thanks.

That's the beauty of the Bible. You get to cherry pick the bits you like.

Unfortunately we are not free to skip over parts we do not like, now in understanding this long history, the New Testament did bring with it some huge changes, think I wrote some about that somewhere but I am not a minister or biblical scholar.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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I don't think your son would be a good choice unfortunately.

Of course you don't. Because in your twisted mind you consider his son a twisted and perverted sinner.
I'm surprised that you haven't counciled him to divorce himself from his son.

Sir, please tell me why God allowed his words of Truth to coincide with lies put there by malicious men? Why would God do that Gerry? Why would He muddle it, hide it, bury it? I beg you. Why?

Ill answer your question with another question for you to think on. Earlier Deuteronomy had been quoted to support the prohibition of cross dressing. In that chapter it talks of stoning a young girl to death if she is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night. This would be one of "God's laws"? You support the stoning to death of young women? Did Christ?


You claim that you have "opened your eyes and heart" and if I recall you stated "that you prayed about it and got the answer" (paraphrase). Well how come God hasn't done that for a billion Christians or more who believe that the bible is the Word of God in its entirety? I beg you. Why?

I'm afraid I have no idea why. Maybe he looks for those that think for themselves? Maybe you and others haven't asked the right questions. I have no idea of the inner workings of our Lords plan.


Well the subject of God and sin is not "silly", that's just a straw man argument to make it sound as if the subject were fairytales. We're talking about the biggest question(s) in life here, of course the Christian perspective should be counted! Every else but us?
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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OK, the limits of science to prove or to disprove God does not mean God does not exist.
Doesn't mean that he does either.
How can one state as a fact there is no God? .
I don't think anyone's stated that here, though I may have missed it if someone did, but it's perfectly simple: it can be stated the same way one can state as a fact that there is. The evidence is not conclusive either way, but based on my understanding of how things are, to me the claim that there is seems overwhelmingly unlikely to be true.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Unfortunately we are not free to skip over parts we do not like...
But everybody does. There are something over 600 biblical prescriptions for correct behaviour, mostly in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, many of which would land you in prison if you followed them now.
 

Peaches

Nominee Member
Oct 19, 2012
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Doesn't mean that he does either. I don't think anyone's stated that here, though I may have missed it if someone did, but it's perfectly simple: it can be stated the same way one can state as a fact that there is. The evidence is not conclusive either way, but based on my understanding of how things are, to me the claim that there is seems overwhelmingly unlikely to be true.

yeah, like your candle profile picture then again it is red - SATAN!!!!! We all are entitled to our opinions fortunately at least for the forseeable future...PAX

But everybody does. There are something over 600 biblical prescriptions for correct behaviour, mostly in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, many of which would land you in prison if you followed them now.

I am a lay person, I am sure a biblical scholar could sort out why shreded pork barbecue is so good, as well as why except for Islam we do not bury someone up to their waist and then stone them - I have the picture of that woman in my mind - how horrible, it makes me shudder. My father told me he saw arms chopped off by an ax and dunked into hot tar for steeling then the poor man running through the streets screaming at the top of his lungs. We do not crop ears, or brand people but I am not a biblical scholar.

Of course you don't. Because in your twisted mind you consider his son a twisted and perverted sinner.
I'm surprised that you haven't counciled him to divorce himself from his son.



Ill answer your question with another question for you to think on. Earlier Deuteronomy had been quoted to support the prohibition of cross dressing. In that chapter it talks of stoning a young girl to death if she is found not to be a virgin on her wedding night. This would be one of "God's laws"? You support the stoning to death of young women? Did Christ?




I'm afraid I have no idea why. Maybe he looks for those that think for themselves? Maybe you and others haven't asked the right questions. I have no idea of the inner workings of our Lords plan.


Well the subject of God and sin is not "silly", that's just a straw man argument to make it sound as if the subject were fairytales. We're talking about the biggest question(s) in life here, of course the Christian perspective should be counted! Every else but us?

Indeed - to the last lines. We search for answers to the big questions, Christians have faith that they have found them.
 

PoliticalNick

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The 10 commandments were handed down to mankind directly by God.
Prove it!! Really they were handed down by Moses (a man) who desperately needed to maintain control over his followers as they were losing faith in him. Now I am not saying the values expressed are bad or incorrect but the only proof they are 'the word of god' is the word of a man trying to control men.
 

Peaches

Nominee Member
Oct 19, 2012
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Prove it!! Really they were handed down by Moses (a man) who desperately needed to maintain control over his followers as they were losing faith in him. Now I am not saying the values expressed are bad or incorrect but the only proof they are 'the word of god' is the word of a man trying to control men.

I remember hearing about some mountain in Jordan or Saudi Arabia there was supposidly a place cut out . you are seeking proof, when we are to live by faith. Even if it could be proved we must still have faith. The shroud of Tourin is interesting, and studies have supported it, some have debunked it - Faith. Josephus wrote the testimonium about Jesus, and there are many other mentions of Christ by people contemporary or within the lifetime of first hand witnesses - Faith.....
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
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I find it very hard to believe that God, if there is one, gives a rats azz what you wear. I mean, seriously, think about it.

Don't you honestly think that God, if there is one, is more concerned about how you treat people, and the things you do, than what you wear?

Lots of people go to church, wear nice clothes, and lie, cheat, steal, and treat their fellow church members poorly. Don't you think that stuff is more important than wanting to wear clothing that we have decided belongs to the opposite sex? After all, the 'gender' of clothing styles is PURELY a creation of our culture, nothing more.

I think the OP is allowing other people to cause him issues with his behaviour, and there are other posters on here who call themselves 'christians' who are not helping. 'Women's clothing' is only called that because our current culture has designated it that way. To think that this has anything to do with 'God', or bears any connection to anything said in the OT, is ludicrous.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Indeed - to the last lines. We search for answers to the big questions, Christians have faith that they have found them.


The last lines were not mine, and if you had actually been reading this entire thread you would have realized that.

I also see you skipped right over the rest of that post. Why? The hard questions to inconvenient? You, and IBM, have been takin in by Satan. Just like Adam and Eve.

Prove it!! Really they were handed down by Moses (a man) who desperately needed to maintain control over his followers as they were losing faith in him. Now I am not saying the values expressed are bad or incorrect but the only proof they are 'the word of god' is the word of a man trying to control men.


and the word of Jesus Christ.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I remember hearing about some mountain in Jordan or Saudi Arabia there was supposidly a place cut out . you are seeking proof, when we are to live by faith. Even if it could be proved we must still have faith. The shroud of Tourin is interesting, and studies have supported it, some have debunked it - Faith. Josephus wrote the testimonium about Jesus, and there are many other mentions of Christ by people contemporary or within the lifetime of first hand witnesses - Faith.....
You have been misled. There's no known place where Moses' tablets could have been cut from, the Shroud of Turin is a proven mediaeval fraud, and there are no mentions of Jesus in any writings contemporary with him, the nearest to him are a few mentions by later Roman historians about some of his troublesome followers. Biblical scholarship has established that not even the Gospels are contemporary with him, and were not written by anyone who knew him.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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I remember hearing about some mountain in Jordan or Saudi Arabia there was supposidly a place cut out . you are seeking proof, when we are to live by faith. Even if it could be proved we must still have faith. The shroud of Tourin is interesting, and studies have supported it, some have debunked it - Faith. Josephus wrote the testimonium about Jesus, and there are many other mentions of Christ by people contemporary or within the lifetime of first hand witnesses - Faith.....

I remember hearing about some place in Nevada where a UFO crashed too but without proof you don't believe it do you? Why would people require scientific proof & evidence of UFOs and other mysteries but then declare we must rely on faith for religious purposes. It is hypocritical at best.

As for writings, well there are people alive today writing things about events that are pure bunk. Books on controlled demo of WTC, books on Iranian Nuclear arsenals etc etc. Just because someone writes something does not make it true. You also must consider the reasons for such books. People want their views recognized as truth for many reasons and controlling the population is not the least of them. What we do know is that Christianity was not anything until 300 years or more after Jesus supposedly lived. We know that the Roman Emperor at that time wanted to make Christianity the prevalent religion. We know that the gospels included in the bible are all from 100s of years after the lives of those who supposedly wrote them and that they are only a selection of writings chosen by a few for whatever their reasons were at the time. I trust the bible as the truth as much as I trust a wild dog not to eat a plate of roast beef in front of him and I have NO faith in the motivation and intent of those who created the bible. Once you grasp the nefarious nature of man and that the bible was created by man to control men you might find yourself questioning your faith in some mysterious being who controls the universe.

and the word of Jesus Christ.

Like I said...the word of a man trying to control men!
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
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Hum...true. But the creation story can also be interpreted as an allegory for it has the rhythm and meter of poetry. God can use any means to bring about life out of the primordial mud to make man.
Also, true, but it's far more probable that the universe just creates and destroys and has no purpose and is without emotion in doing so. :) What people call "gods" is most likely universes doing what universes do and anthropomorphising the issue is simply the only way some people can handle the concepts. Well, that and needing some humanlike figure to attribute the universes' activities to. :)
 
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Peaches

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Oct 19, 2012
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I find it very hard to believe that God, if there is one, gives a rats azz what you wear. I mean, seriously, think about it.

Don't you honestly think that God, if there is one, is more concerned about how you treat people, and the things you do, than what you wear?

Lots of people go to church, wear nice clothes, and lie, cheat, steal, and treat their fellow church members poorly. Don't you think that stuff is more important than wanting to wear clothing that we have decided belongs to the opposite sex? After all, the 'gender' of clothing styles is PURELY a creation of our culture, nothing more.

I think the OP is allowing other people to cause him issues with his behaviour, and there are other posters on here who call themselves 'christians' who are not helping. 'Women's clothing' is only called that because our current culture has designated it that way. To think that this has anything to do with 'God', or bears any connection to anything said in the OT, is ludicrous.

Oh! sin to one may not be sin to another. In truth you are absolutely correct I have focused on this for years 46 to be exact and there are indeed much more important issues that confront us than that. The heart is most important - loving our neighbors as our selves, extending a hand to help, giving time, money, possessions when needed, spreading God's message, aiding the sick - bringing food, filling in for caregivers, being there. Still God would have us strive for an incorruptable eternal crown. But works do not purchase forgiveness - they are mere signs usually of a heart filled with love after it has been changed. It is by GRACE that you have been saved THROUGH FAITH and not as a result of works that no one can boast. All believers are saints but there is no such thing as supererogation whereby we as sinners surpass the need for Christ to die for our sins. Mother Teresa I have heard was rather surly and not perfect she was a sinner as we all are same for "Saint Francis", etc.....
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Nice try, but we both know you know better than that, you're deliberately misusing different meanings of words and incorrectly describing atheism as a belief in nothing when it's just the absence of a belief in a certain something.
It depends on what you are looking for as proof. Maybe it's not the complexities of a God that stands out and screams here I am but is littered amongt the subtle. I've gone full circle after realizing I too was looking for the dramatic.

Oh! sin to one may not be sin to another. In truth you are absolutely correct I have focused on this for years 46 to be exact and there are indeed much more important issues that confront us than that. The heart is most important - loving our neighbors as our selves, extending a hand to help, giving time, money, possessions when needed, spreading God's message, aiding the sick - bringing food, filling in for caregivers, being there. Still God would have us strive for an incorruptable eternal crown. But works do not purchase forgiveness - they are mere signs usually of a heart filled with love after it has been changed. It is by GRACE that you have been saved THROUGH FAITH and not as a result of works that no one can boast. All believers are saints but there is no such thing as supererogation whereby we as sinners surpass the need for Christ to die for our sins. Mother Teresa I have heard was rather surly and not perfect she was a sinner as we all are same for "Saint Francis", etc.....
Ephesians 2:8-9.
 

Peaches

Nominee Member
Oct 19, 2012
84
0
6
Biloxi, MS
Oh! sin to one may not be sin to another. In truth you are absolutely correct I have focused on this for years 46 to be exact and there are indeed much more important issues that confront us than that. The heart is most important - loving our neighbors as our selves, extending a hand to help, giving time, money, possessions when needed, spreading God's message, aiding the sick - bringing food, filling in for caregivers, being there. Still God would have us strive for an incorruptable eternal crown. But works do not purchase forgiveness - they are mere signs usually of a heart filled with love after it has been changed. It is by GRACE that you have been saved THROUGH FAITH and not as a result of works that no one can boast. All believers are saints but there is no such thing as supererogation whereby we as sinners surpass the need for Christ to die for our sins. Mother Teresa I have heard was rather surly and not perfect she was a sinner as we all are same for "Saint Francis", etc.....

At times I have believed I have worried so much about Crossdressing that I have been blind to much greater sins that I have committed. But I confess.

I can tell you society is changing but it does not make society correct, It may very well be the people in the church fail to understand with their man made doctrines (their best efforts to make sense of God's message) but all doctrine is flawed to some extent because man has trumped it up. As I have stated though the addiction to those feelings lead to nothing good, If I am more in touch with what I see as a few feminine traits I may have so that I feel closer to women - well in general as a man would imagin and delude himself. See how easily we rationalize our way into sin.