Toronto shootings underscore why tough gun sentences are ‘essential’

[Locutus]

: Stephen Harper after meeting with mayor

OSHAWA — Hours after meeting Toronto Mayor Rob Ford at a police station in Scarborough Tuesday to discuss how to tackle gun crimes — in the wake of a deadly multiple shooting last week at an east Toronto barbecue that killed two people and injured 24 — Stephen Harper said the men agreed on the need for tough sentences for those caught with illegal firearms.


“I think these events in Toronto underscore why these penalties are essential,” the prime minister said at a GM Canada announcement.
“This is not a theoretical problem.”


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Stephen Harper: Toronto shootings underscore why tough gun sentences are 'essential' | Posted Toronto | National Post

 

[Kreskin]

The threat of a death sentence didn't help in Colorado.

 

[taxslave]

When Canadian governments talk about being tough on gun crime they mean fining the life blood law abiding gun owners for tripping over the mountain of bureaucratic rules. Or stealing your personal property because you were foolish enough to follow the law and register your posessions so when they change the law they know exactly where to go. Or stealing your hunting rifles because you had a couple of pot plants in the green house.
Criminals with guns they are not so interested in because that would be work and probably impossible to eliminate.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

And Harper will win again because appeals to stupidity have a very wide audience.

It is a criminological fact that more severe deterrents have been proved to lead to more crime, not less. There are many reasons that explain that, sociological and psychological, but that does not matter. Like science in general, it has no significance to Harper when weithes against his ideology and voodoo religous passions.

Not a penny to prevent crime but billions for punishment. He is like some Victorian era preacher.

 

[karrie]

*sigh* all too often the drive behind these sorts of crimes is either mental illness, or the fact that the person doing it is alredy a hardened criminal. Increasing 'gun' sentences will do little to address the actual issue and likely simply punish the wrong people. How about instead of increasing sentences on 'gun' crimes, we crack down on mass murderers? The fact of the matter is, both of these incidents stand out from crime in general, and deserve to be sentenced in a way that stands out from other crime.

They're stepping into the fuzzy area of anticipatory sentencing. "We're going to sentence you harsher because, by possessing an illegal gun we anticipate you're going to be a mass murderer." That's a scary way for a government to go.

 

[lone wolf]

And Harper will win again because appeals to stupidity have a very wide audience.

It is a criminological fact that more severe deterrents have been proved to lead to more crime, not less. There are many reasons that explain that, sociological and psychological, but that does not matter. Like science in general, it has no significance to Harper when weithes against his ideology and voodoo religous passions.

Not a penny to prevent crime but billions for punishment. He is like some Victorian era preacher.

Do you have a link to this "criminological fact"?

I'd suggest if they're doing harsh time, whatever crime they may do is going to earn tougher repercussions from the community.

 

[CDNBear]

Hmmm, stiff sentencing and the death penalty is doing well in Japan.

 

[WLDB]

Hmmm, stiff sentencing and the death penalty is doing well in Japan.

Not so well in the US.

 

[CDNBear]

Not so well in the US.

Different world. Which was sort of my point.

 

[Cabbagesandking]

I don't have a limk, lone wolf, because I have not looked for one. This has been an continuing debate for a century or more and has been the subjest of hundreds of studies for at least the last half century. I have seen it scores of times and I have never seen anything other tha ideological dispute that claims otherwise.

As one little aside, I recall reading, probably, forty or more years ago, that when a rape is publicized and severely punished, the likelihood of other rapes is increased since the act is one that comes of mental stress and tensions. The anxiety level of a potential rapist increases with the occasion.

Make of that what you will.

 

[lone wolf]

The fact remains, a death sentence or a lifetime spent locked away from civilization ensures the guilty party will not repeat the offence in the community at large

 

[mentalfloss]

The fact remains, a death sentence or a lifetime spent locked away from civilization ensures the guilty party will not repeat the offence in the community at large

I agree with this, but I thought the discussion was revolving around deterrence.

 

[lone wolf]

I agree with this, but I thought the discussion was revolving around deterrence.

It deters repeat offences.

How does society teach respect for society? In the end, the greatest of deterrents is a conscience.

 

[wulfie68]

If we're honest, how do we deter mass murderers? As Karrie pointed out, thats the real issue, and one that we can't do much about because we still don't know so much about what sets them off. We can dissect the acts, after the fact but usually there are multiple factors involved, that taken individually, are pretty harmless. Blaming these crimes on "illegal guns" is being disingenuous: they could and probably would happen with other weapons if guns weren't available, similar to how the Canadian murder rate in general still carries on, although firearms deaths have fallen due to the regulations dealing with owning/purchasing/possessing one.