Government kills independent science body

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Canada pledges oil and gas pollution rules by 2013 at climate conference
The ambassador also noted that the government still has "interest" in measures to put a price on carbon dioxide pollution through market mechanisms since some provinces are implementing or exploring this option within their own climate change plans.
Alberta, BC, and Quebec already have prices on this pollution.


If they can hit those targets (and if they're still in power by then), that will be a huge coup for the CPC.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Travis Davies, a spokesman for the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, said the 2013 timeline was "in line" with the industry's expectations, noting that it already faces some reporting and regulatory requirements in Alberta and British Columbia.

Read more: Canada pledges oil and gas pollution rules by 2013 at climate conference

Hey, look who is getting off his ass and actually seeing for his own eyes......

Mulcair agrees to oilsands visit | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

Premier wants a chat with Mulcair | Home | Edmonton Sun
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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[OK, here's some public scrutiny for you. Let me know if you think I'm onto something here...

Mulcair is elected and pulls off his sustainable resource management shtick.

Controlling oil flow, cause oil prices to rise.

Rising oil prices cause transport costs to rise.

Rising transport costs, cause rise in price of goods and services.

Yes or no?

Needs more analysis to determine exactly what level of production or variables cause dutch disease. The IRR report confirms 25 out of 80 manufacturing sites have been negatively impacted due primarily on the basis of an inflated dollar.

So it needs to be determined what causes that inflated dollar.

As far as I understand, one factor is avoiding environmental costs related to oil production. This artificially inflates the profit from that sector and impacts the dollar in the same way.

This is as far as I understand for now and the only way we know how to reduce that artificial inflation would be to actually enforce appropriate legislation (like the fisheries act for instance) which makes polluters pay for the environmental costs.

As far as controlling the lever on oil production, I do not know what would be an appropriate rate but I would guess that pumping it out full throttle would have a negative impact on manufacturing. That's why there needs to be more scientific assessment to determine what level will allow us to maximize prosperity in the resource sector, without causing substantial harm to the other parts of the product life cycle.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Are we overproducing gold too? Gold impacts markets and dollar far more than oil does. Should we cease from being the world's leader in gold?
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Are we overproducing gold too? Gold impacts markets and dollar far more than oil does. Should we cease from being the world's leader in gold?

This depends if the process of extracting gold impacts the dollar artificially.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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You need to learn the futures market.

How does the process of extacting oil (drilling, refining, distribution) do that?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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You need to learn the futures market.

I don't mind learning, but I'm kind of tired of googling. Can you give me a non-patronizing sum up?

How does the process of extacting oil (drilling, refining, distribution) do that?

One way (as I mentioned above) is that corporations don't pay for environmental costs when the legislation isn't enforced. That causes profits to appear higher than they actually are. This artificially impacts the dollar.

Another reason is that people who would normally work in manufacturing decide to go to resource extraction instead because of the "boom" in that sector.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Nope. I can't. You need to find it within yourself to take the initiative to learn without somebody holding your hand.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Needs more analysis to determine exactly what level of production or variables cause dutch disease. The IRR report confirms 25 out of 80 manufacturing sites have been negatively impacted due primarily on the basis of an inflated dollar.

You're assuming that the 25 sites were hit by (specifically) a resource inflated dollar. In reality, that is only one of many factors in a very complex (global) equation.

Fact is, the dollar is more heavily impacted by the relativistic position it holds against other global currencies. The greenback is a major benchmark and as their economy is hurt, their dollar deflates causing the CDN dollar to inflate relative to the benchmark.

That is (obviously) not the only important factor, but it is one of the more dominant ones... Case in point, watch what happens to thr price of an ounce of gold when the USD moves.

So it needs to be determined what causes that inflated dollar.


Like is suggested above, you will not find one (or just a few) smoking guns that create that circumstance.

As far as I understand, one factor is avoiding environmental costs related to oil production. This artificially inflates the profit from that sector and impacts the dollar in the same way.

The enviro costs are an expense that cuts into the profitability of an oil company and the sector is heavily regulated by both provincial and federal standards.

Look into it at the ERCB in AB (Sask, BC, Mb will have their bodies as well). The feds will have their regulatory requirements also, but in the end, the oil/gas sector is more heavily regulated than any other in the nation.

This is as far as I understand for now and the only way we know how to reduce that artificial inflation would be to actually enforce appropriate legislation (like the fisheries act for instance) which makes polluters pay for the environmental costs.

See above, but as it is a cost center AND aggressively regulated, there is no real 'artificial' inflation... Consider for one moment that the oil imports to Eastern Canada from foreign sources (yes, you read it right) do not have that same high level as Canada (and perhaps the USA), what are the cumulative impacts of sourcing oil from those jurisdictions?


I do not know what would be an appropriate rate but I would guess that pumping it out full throttle would have a negative impact on manufacturing. That's why there needs to be more scientific assessment to determine what level will allow us to maximize prosperity in the resource sector, without causing substantial harm to the other parts of the product life cycle.

Despite claims to the contrary, there is lots of oil/gas all throughout North America, it won't be running out any time soon.

That said, understanding that there is a push to develop renewables and clean alternatives, it makes sense to profit from the resource while it is in high demand. Suggesting that the feds play around wit the commodity price or supply may have a deleterious effect very similar to what Bear suggested.
 

Cabbagesandking

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Apr 24, 2012
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The principal reason for the high Canadian dollar is the deliberate, unofficial devaluation of the US dollar. The US embarked on that a decade ago for the purpose of improving its manufavturing competitiveness and the other usual reasons. The Canadian dollar should have, on its merits, declined in tandem.

But, it did not. It did not because of its growing resource sector. Oil was by far the biggest factor in that. The consequence was that our manufactures were priced out of the US Market along with those of certain other countries that also saw their exports to the US lessened.

Since 2002, the level of the Canadian dollar has exactly tracked the price of oil and the job ;osses in the manufacturing sector have correlated with both.

It is easy to say that Canada should have adjusted; that it was an opportunity to improve productivity. That does not necessarily happen. For one, the dollar shot from 62.5 vs the US to the .90s in just four years. There is no adaptation possible in that time frame. Only bankruptcy for many Canadian corporations.

Then, R & D did not improve significantly and a major reason for that is that the great many US owned companies in Canada rely on their American parents for that. They also relied on the same for the purchase of equipment to upgrade. That has not been forthcoming. Some corporations chose, rather, to move their operations back to the USA. Some chose, as the auto industry did, to reduce their Canadian committments and move them to lower cost areas - often back in the USA.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Travis Davies, a spokesman for the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, said the 2013 timeline was "in line" with the industry's expectations, noting that it already faces some reporting and regulatory requirements in Alberta and British Columbia.

Read more: Canada pledges oil and gas pollution rules by 2013 at climate conference

Hey, look who is getting off his ass and actually seeing for his own eyes......

Mulcair agrees to oilsands visit | Canada | News | Toronto Sun

Premier wants a chat with Mulcair | Home | Edmonton Sun

So is this going to be the dutch disease thread then?

Okay..

Under heavy fire, Mulcair defends ‘polluter pay’ stand on oil sands

Despite a sustained Conservative attack that accuses him of pitting east against west, Thomas Mulcair refuses to back down from his assertion the unchecked development of the oil sands is responsible for the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs in other sectors.

Heritage Minister James Moore demanded that the NDP Leader apologize to Western Canadians. He also pointed out that Mr. Mulcair has admitted to never visiting the Alberta oil sands.

“He should be ashamed of himself for attacking the West, dividing our country, and not even having visited the places he is attacking,” Mr. Moore, who was standing in for the Prime Minister, said during Question Period Thursday. “It is unconscionable for someone who wants to be the prime minister of the country to be so utterly irresponsible.”

Mr. Mulcair, who if often accused of having a short fuse, has been keeping his emotions in check since winning leadership of the Official Opposition in March. But he met Mr. Moore’s barbs with an angry response.

“Five hundred thousand good paying manufacturing jobs have been lost because we are not enforcing legislation,” Mr. Mulcair shouted across the House of Commons. “We are allowing these [resource] companies to use the air, the soil and the water as an unlimited free dumping ground. Their model for development is Nigeria instead of Norway. We know what we want: It is sustainable development to protect future generations.”

The verbal assault by Mr. Moore came the day after Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall took to Twitter to condemn Mr. Mulcair’s latest statements, including his accusations that Western premiers who lead conservative governments are merely “messengers” for Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

Alberta Premier Alison Redford has called Mr. Mulcair’s comments “divisive and ill-informed.” And British Columbia’s Christy Clark has labelled his economic analysis “goofy.”

The controversy has provided federal Conservatives with some needed fodder on the New Democrats, who have been rising in the polls since Mr. Mulcair was elected to succeed the late Jack Layton.

It started when Mr. Mulcair told a CBC radio program this month that the oil sands are artificially inflating the Canadian dollar and hollowing out the country’s manufacturing sector – a phenomenon known as Dutch disease.

But that was not the first time Mr. Mulcair voiced his belief the economic ailment, created by oil companies that are not being forced to pay for the damages they are causing to the environment, is hurting Canada. He wrote an essay in March in Policy Options magazine explaining what he believes to be the correlation between the high Canadian dollar and the decline in Canada’s forestry, fisheries and manufacturing sectors.

A report by the Institute for Research on Public Policy published this week said, at best, Canada has a “mild case” of the disease.

But, after Question Period when he had taken some time to calm down, Mr. Mulcair said there is no denying the fact Canada is undergoing economic textbooks label Dutch disease.

“It’s how we’re allowing the resource to be developed, without applying basic rules of sustainable development, without applying the one rule of sustainable development, which is polluter pay. If you don’t include those costs, we’re doing the same thing as if we had a factory where we were pushing the garbage into a river in the back. It’s not the real profit, it’s not the real price. That’s driving the Canadian dollar up.”

Mr. Mulcair said his fight is not with Western Canada or any premier. “My debate is right now in the House of Commons is with the government that’s responsible for the legislation that’s not being enforced.”

Under heavy fire, Mulcair defends polluter pay stand on oil sands - The Globe and Mail
 
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