Ottawa approves Conrad Black’s request to live in Canada

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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I've been a constant critic of Black for decades. But the last i saw of him he was a deflated baloon.. all the hot air let out leaving a limp rag. I've got no problem with this. If he applies for re-instatement of citizenship he'll have to give up his 'Lordship' .. which has become a piece of sarcasm when applied to his name in any case.. and would be a relief to Britain which would be happy to see the last of him. Apparently he can still afford the upkeep on his sumptuous Bridle Path estate, where he can retire to the life his father led at end of his life.. of constant tippling of 35 year old Scotch, and long tirades about the state of country and the world to an ever diminishing audience willing to listen.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Mulcair has a dual citizenship with France and that makes me a little uneasy to start with. Mulcair should go and sit down somewhere and STFU.

At one point all Canadians had British citizenship. and before that, French. Most of us are descendants of those originals. If you have an issue with that, go back to the mother-country.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Gun violence- He was hiding from the US authorities - Did he not change his ID? He would not cause any problems or do things to bring attention to himself now would he?

Black was convicted on one charge – total sum of 600 K. Every other charge was dismissed or overturned by the SCC and the other 2 counts by the presiding judge. Who convicted him on 1 charge.
Yet you see a similarity between both cases?

Obviously, I was talking about the probability of committing their respective offenses a second time.

I'm just going by Kenney's own assertion that to get a temporary permit you need to satisfy two conditions:

1.) The offense was not criminal in nature (Freeman does not satisfy, Black does satisfy)
2.) There is a low risk of committing their offense again (Freeman I believe satisfies, Black definitely does not)

The double standard is that Conservatives think a guy who has been peaceful for 35 years (and in jail for only 30 days) will commit the crime again, yet Conrad Black is perfectly innocent. I think the NDP could have picked a better example where someone did not commit a crime and was also low risk, but Mulcair pulled the race card (which I disagree with).

Either way, Black is a crook and he will steal again when he gets his chance.
 
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Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Conrad Black returning to Canada on temporary permit - Politics - CBC News

The guy was living peacefully in T.O. for 35 years and somehow we're supposed to believe he is a threat now? And yet, we're also supposed to believe that Conrad Black isn't going to continue working with his cronies the day he gets back in?

Please.

I can understand not allowing Freeman in on the merits that his case was of a "violent" nature, but if the immigration office honestly believes that Conrad is going to be an innocent angel when he gets back, I lolz to that.



Exactly.

The point is that there is a double standard and the cons got called pretty quick on it.

Another contentious issue is that of involvement. Kenney said that the government shouldn't even get involved or even comment on these situations and then went out of his way to say that Freeman was a "cop killer" - thereby committing another juicy hypocrisy in less than 2 mins.

Double standard#2.


The fellow had hidden from the Law for 35 years - Right
You imply that Black will commit some sort of offence with his so called cronies. Quite the implication.
Black was convicted on a monetary offence – 600 k total- in Canada he would have been innocent of the charges and in all probability would not even have reached the courts.
This other fellow after 35 years was sentenced for a violent offence. Does that lessen the offence. The only thing is he was tried 35 years later.
As I stated - He was hiding and was lucky - The evidence etc in the case was old - he got 30 days. Quite lucky. But what would have happened if he had been tried in court but 35 years earlier. Who knows.
As to how he lived I do not know. If he was a good man or not.
He was living in the country evading the law and here illegally - no other way to hide but break the immigration laws.
Black has ties to the country- former citizen- children who are Canadian. The only reason people are up in arms is because he is a pompous bastard to many. He represents all that is bad or perceived to be bad about rich business people. And I tend to agree with some of that.
But everything he did was legal in Canada. Remember we are not talking morals – But the law.
But you cannot compare the 2 as the NDP have – I fail to see logic of their point but I do see Politics at play.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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You're just talking hot air now.

Black will undoubtedly steal again - it's just a matter of time. Whereas it is extremely unlikely that you'll find Freeman firing at an officer again.
 
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Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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You're just talking hot air now.

Black will undoubtedly steal again - it's just a matter of time. Whereas it is extremely unlikely that you'll find Freeman firing at an officer again.

Nice to see a clear rebuttal. Did I or someone else piss in your cornflakes.

Also please note Mulcair over the top rhetoric- Appears as one columnist mentioned - using my terms - He and Harper are cut from the same cloth.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...estion-that-conrad-black-decision-was-racist/

NDP Leader Thomas Mulcair should apologize to public servants for suggesting that they were “biased, prejudiced, and even racist” in granting former media mogul Conrad Black a temporary residency permit, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Wednesday.

Ottawa has cleared the way for Black’s return by granting him a one-year temporary resident permit, setting off a political row in Ottawa after it was learned yesterday. Black applied for the permit in March.

Mulcair compared Black’s case to that of Gary Freeman, an American-born man who has been denied re-entry into Canada because of a criminal record. The 63-year-old was involved with the Black Panthers, and was extradited to the U.S. in 2008 and pleaded guilty to shooting a police officer in 1969. After serving a 30-day sentence, he was denied re-entry to Canada, where his wife and four children live.

“It is a clear case of a double standard, one for an American black man from Chicago, another for a British white man coming out of federal penitentiary,” Mulcair said.
 
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TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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At one point all Canadians had British citizenship. and before that, French. Most of us are descendants of those originals. If you have an issue with that, go back to the mother-country.


Indeed, wasnt it 1947 or something that Canadian citizenship came into being?
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
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For what it is worth, we allow all sorts of terrorist scum to stay here because they might be tortured back in the homeland, so in the scale of things, a guy who ripped off other rich people is no threat to me and I hope he continues his ways when he comes back.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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Just how special is Lord Black's residency permit?

Conrad Black is once again part of an elite club: a foreign national who has secured a permit to live in Canada even before finishing jail time abroad.

As The Globe and Mail first reported this week, a request from Lord Black, the former media baron, for a one-year temporary resident permit was approved by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration in March even while he was still jailed in Florida for fraud and obstruction of justice.

Canadian immigration lawyers on Wednesday said it’s extraordinarily rare for the federal government to grant the right to reside here to convicted felons while they’re still in prison.

The former Hollinger newspaper head, who renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2001 to obtain a British peerage, is expected to be granted early release from a U.S. jail this week.
Toronto immigration lawyer Guidy Mamann said Ottawa is supposed to take into account whether a temporary resident permit applicant has demonstrated the ability to live outside prison without reoffending.

“How on earth do you prove that a guy has rehabilitated when he hasn’t even finished his sentence?” he said.

Mr. Mamann said he’s not saying Lord Black doesn’t deserve to be allowed back into Canada, only that if he had a client facing the same challenge, “I wouldn’t even have taken money from him.”

He said he thinks it’s unlikely the Conservative government had no role in the decision.

“The idea that the minister didn’t wink or nod in favour of this thing is impossible to imagine.”

Immigration Minister Jason Kenney and Prime Minister Stephen Harper reject the notion they lifted a finger for Lord Black – saying the decision was left solely to bureaucrats.

“There has been no involvement of anyone on the political side of government in this,” Mr. Harper told the House of Commons. “It would be just as easy for us if Mr. Black were not allowed to come to Canada.”

Leaving aside the question of political influence, other lawyers say the case merited careful attention from bureaucratic decision-makers because of Lord Black’s circumstances alone.

It’s not a run-of-the-mill matter such as, say, a New York Rangers hockey player needing a permit to enter Canada despite a drunk-driving conviction.

“Yes, he received special treatment, but in my opinion, he received special treatment because it is a special case,” Montreal immigration lawyer David Cohen said.

In reviewing applications, Citizenship and Immigration is supposed to weigh the danger an applicant poses to Canada against his or her need to be here, he said.

“No one was thinking of the Conrad Black situation when they came up with the TRP [temporary resident permit].”

Lord Black has spent significant portions of his life in Canada, his wife is Canadian, as are his three children. He also writes for a Canadian newspaper.

Plus, as Winnipeg lawyer Kenneth Zaifman points out, Lord Black poses no threat.

“Unless he writes an inflammatory article in the National Post and people are driven into the streets, I don’t see any risk,” Mr. Zaifman said.

Citizenship and Immigration was unable to say how many temporary resident permits it has awarded to foreigners still living in a cell block.

The department granted 11,526 temporary resident permits in 2011, including 6,541 for applicants with criminal records. Of these, 907 were considered serious criminals convicted of wrongdoings that would be an indictable offence in Canada.

A source with knowledge of the matter, however, was able to recall one other case – about four months ago – where Ottawa granted such a permit to an applicant in a Caribbean prison.

Just how special is Lord Black's residency permit? - The Globe and Mail


G&M already has a poll out. Lots of votes in there.

Should Conrad Black have been granted a temporary-resident permit to allow him to live in Canada?

36% 2139 votes
Yes

64% 3815 votes
No
 
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Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
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Shxt i was lucky to be born in 57 or else I would not have a country to call my own.:smile:

You are lucky. However, at the beck and call of empires how independent is that citizenship?
Sure, let Black come back; but now let's be consistent
And all this grumping about Mulcair; he's doing his job!
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Just how special is Lord Black's residency permit?

Conrad Black is once again part of an elite club: a foreign national who has secured a permit to live in Canada even before finishing jail time abroad.

As The Globe and Mail first reported this week, a request from Lord Black, the former media baron, for a one-year temporary resident permit was approved by the Department of Citizenship and Immigration in March even while he was still jailed in Florida for fraud and obstruction of justice.

Canadian immigration lawyers on Wednesday said it’s extraordinarily rare for the federal government to grant the right to reside here to convicted felons while they’re still in prison.

The former Hollinger newspaper head, who renounced his Canadian citizenship in 2001 to obtain a British peerage, is expected to be granted early release from a U.S. jail this week.
Toronto immigration lawyer Guidy Mamann said Ottawa is supposed to take into account whether a temporary resident permit applicant has demonstrated the ability to live outside prison without reoffending.

“How on earth do you prove that a guy has rehabilitated when he hasn’t even finished his sentence?” he said.

Mr. Mamann said he’s not saying Lord Black doesn’t deserve to be allowed back into Canada, only that if he had a client facing the same challenge, “I wouldn’t even have taken money from him.”

He said he thinks it’s unlikely the Conservative government had no role in the decision.

“The idea that the minister didn’t wink or nod in favour of this thing is impossible to imagine.”

Immigration Minister Jason Kenney and Prime Minister Stephen Harper reject the notion they lifted a finger for Lord Black – saying the decision was left solely to bureaucrats.

“There has been no involvement of anyone on the political side of government in this,” Mr. Harper told the House of Commons. “It would be just as easy for us if Mr. Black were not allowed to come to Canada.”

Leaving aside the question of political influence, other lawyers say the case merited careful attention from bureaucratic decision-makers because of Lord Black’s circumstances alone.

It’s not a run-of-the-mill matter such as, say, a New York Rangers hockey player needing a permit to enter Canada despite a drunk-driving conviction.

“Yes, he received special treatment, but in my opinion, he received special treatment because it is a special case,” Montreal immigration lawyer David Cohen said.

In reviewing applications, Citizenship and Immigration is supposed to weigh the danger an applicant poses to Canada against his or her need to be here, he said.

“No one was thinking of the Conrad Black situation when they came up with the TRP [temporary resident permit].”

Lord Black has spent significant portions of his life in Canada, his wife is Canadian, as are his three children. He also writes for a Canadian newspaper.

Plus, as Winnipeg lawyer Kenneth Zaifman points out, Lord Black poses no threat.

“Unless he writes an inflammatory article in the National Post and people are driven into the streets, I don’t see any risk,” Mr. Zaifman said.

Citizenship and Immigration was unable to say how many temporary resident permits it has awarded to foreigners still living in a cell block.

The department granted 11,526 temporary resident permits in 2011, including 6,541 for applicants with criminal records. Of these, 907 were considered serious criminals convicted of wrongdoings that would be an indictable offence in Canada.

A source with knowledge of the matter, however, was able to recall one other case – about four months ago – where Ottawa granted such a permit to an applicant in a Caribbean prison.

Just how special is Lord Black's residency permit? - The Globe and Mail


G&M already has a poll out. Lots of votes in there.

This is ridiculous.

Black was born here.

Black's wife is Canadian, and lives here.

Blacked is a noted author, and historian.

Black is an Author of the Order of Canada, for God's sake.

The idea that Black will inevitably "steal again" is so ludicrous that it defies the imagination.

Black only renounced his Canadian citizenship because Chretien was being an vindictive arsehole, and forced him to choose.

BTW, if the opinions expressed in on-line polls were law, I'd be legally packing a .357 Magnum in the grocery store.

We'll make a deal: I get to carry handguns everywhere, and we throw Lord Black under the bus.

Mulcair is making a damned fool out of himself over this........especially when he compares Black to a US born cop shooter.......beyond sanity.

I suspect this will be the first time of many for Mulcair.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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You are lucky. However, at the beck and call of empires how independent is that citizenship?
Sure, let Black come back; but now let's be consistent
And all this grumping about Mulcair; he's doing his job!

Yes - But over the top- Using the same tactics as Harper.Throwing in the race card was BS. If it is going to cost Harper it is only reasonable to conclude it will cost Mulcair
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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The idea that Black will inevitably "steal again" is so ludicrous that it defies the imagination.

Your post defies imagination.

Yes - But over the top- Using the same tactics as Harper.Throwing in the race card was BS. If it is going to cost Harper it is only reasonable to conclude it will cost Mulcair

I don't agree with Mulcair's gaffe either, but it was overshadowed by Harper's stupidity last week.
 

grumpydigger

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Mar 4, 2009
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His pompous arrogant lordship, who believed Canada was not good enough for him.should now be applying for citizenship in some Third World country............

Only the tuff on crime and criminals harper government would allow a convicted felon a chance at Canadian citizenship , after denouncing a country............
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Your post defies imagination.



I don't agree with Mulcair's gaffe either, but it was overshadowed by Harper's stupidity last week.

You should really include a little substance.....

And if you are talking about Harper's criticism of J.S. Woodsworth's pacifism.........well, I agree.....at least partially.

The left were the first Canadians to take on fascism, in the Spanish Civil War. Woodsworth was a Methodist minister, from which sprang his pacifist beliefs. God knows I prefer a lefty pacifist Christian minister than a hard right warrior in the role.

But Harper was at least accurate, if obnoxious........the war against fascism was necessary, and Woodsworth would have stood in the way of that, had he been able.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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You should really include a little substance.....

And if you are talking about Harper's criticism of J.S. Woodsworth's pacifism.........well, I agree.....at least partially.

The left were the first Canadians to take on fascism, in the Spanish Civil War. Woodsworth was a Methodist minister, from which sprang his pacifist beliefs. God knows I prefer a lefty pacifist Christian minister than a hard right warrior in the role.

But Harper was at least accurate, if obnoxious........the war against fascism was necessary, and Woodsworth would have stood in the way of that, had he been able.

I'm not sure about all this fluff, but I do know that it's ridiculous to suggest Black is an angel and that him committing a second crime is an impossibility that shouldn't even be a figment of anyone's imagination.
 

Colpy

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I'm not sure about all this fluff, but I do know that it's ridiculous to suggest Black is an angel and that him committing a second crime is an impossibility that shouldn't even be a figment of anyone's imagination.

My, who peed in your Corn Flakes this morning??

Black is an old man, I sincerely doubt people will be lining up to engage him in business partnerships, especially as senior partner!

He was born Canadian, he was forced into the decision to drop his citizenship, he holds the Order of Canada.......he is a Canadian historian.........his crimes were non-violent......the choice is simply obvious to me...........