Death knell for AGW

Cabbagesandking

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And, of course, nothing untoward transpired at East Anglia. All, the noise of McIntyre et al has been exposed in several; investigations for what it was. Criminal theft of information and total misrepresentation by that Steve and his fellow fraudsters.

As for dramatic swings in climate over millions of years, there has never been a change like the present. Every change of the magnitude that has already taken place has, in past history, require3d thousands, and in a couple of instances, millions of years. This time it has taken just forty.

Tim Ball, btw, has never "studied" climate. That is not his area. If I recall correctly, he taught the geography of climate. He is a phony; a huckster who did very well out of providing denial for the tobacco industry before climate presented him with a similar opportunity.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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So, Tim Ball, PH.D, MA, BA; that has studied climatology for years is not qualified by virtue that he disagrees with the IPCC.

Are ya picking up what I'm putting down here? You starting to piece the puzzle together?
There are only a handful of climatologists participating in the scam. As for "Climarte Scientists" there is no specified field of study, a climate scientist could a be dentist who writes a paper and has other dentists review it and can then be submitted to the IPCC.
 

captain morgan

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And, of course, nothing untoward transpired at East Anglia. All, the noise of McIntyre et al has been exposed in several; investigations for what it was. Criminal theft of information and total misrepresentation by that Steve and his fellow fraudsters.

I see, because the folks at East Anglia that communicated those unsavory messages didn't voluntarily turn themselves in, well the entire event doesn't count?

Gotcha

As for dramatic swings in climate over millions of years, there has never been a change like the present. Every change of the magnitude that has already taken place has, in past history, require3d thousands, and in a couple of instances, millions of years. This time it has taken just forty.

You were there millions of years ago, were ya?

There are only a handful of climatologists participating in the scam. As for "Climarte Scientists" there is no specified field of study, a climate scientist could a be dentist who writes a paper and has other dentists review it and can then be submitted to the IPCC.

That's the funny thing, there is no formal area of study that has had years to iron-out the wrinkles.

As we saw on the IPCC's initial consensus of 2500 'scientists', some were family docs or others that had the moniker 'Dr.' on their business card.

Looks like the IPCC has pretty open attitude towards their panel of experts and the entire peer review process.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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As for dramatic swings in climate over millions of years, there has never been a change like the present. Every change of the magnitude that has already taken place has, in past history, require3d thousands, and in a couple of instances, millions of years. This time it has taken just forty.
OMFG. Where the hell did you come up with that crap?

That's the funny thing, there is no formal area of study that has had years to iron-out the wrinkles.

As we saw on the IPCC's initial consensus of 2500 'scientists', some were family docs or others that had the moniker 'Dr.' on their business card.

Looks like the IPCC has pretty open attitude towards their panel of experts and the entire peer review process.
As I mentioned before, if these jackasses had the same level "peer review" of the rest of science, I'd accept their findings but until then it's all bull**** of epic proportion.
 

taxslave

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What "one group" would that be? All those papers from hundreds of scientists in dozens of countries and journals that compete for superior material. All thosw ho have managed to convince their peers that their arguments are cogent and worth further consideration EVEN IF the conclusions are not necessarily proved right or accepted as such by the reviewers are members of one group?

The world is full of conspiracy theories but don't you think that you stretch that one a little?

From scientists telling something about the peer review process and pointing to its flaws. Scientists tend to be honest and want truth to prevail.


"[Peer Review] is an undisputed cornerstone of modern science. Central to the competitive clash of ideas that moves knowledge forward, peer review enjoys so much renown in the scientific community that studies lacking its imprimatur meet with automatic skepticism. Academic reputations hinge on an ability to get work through peer review and into leading journals; university presses employ peer review to decide which books they’re willing to publish; and federal agencies like the National Institutes of Health use peer review to weigh the merits of applications for federal research grants.
Put simply, peer review is supposed to weed out poor science. However, it is not foolproof — a deeply flawed paper can end up being published under a number of different potential circumstances: (i) the work is submitted to a journal outside the relevant field (e.g. a paper on paleoclimate submitted to a social science journal) where the reviewers are likely to be chosen from a pool of individuals lacking the expertise to properly review the paper, (ii) too few or too unqualified a set of reviewers are chosen by the editor, (iii) the reviewers or editor (or both) have agendas, and overlook flaws that invalidate the paper’s conclusions, and (iv) the journal may process and publish so many papers that individual manuscripts occasionally do not get the editorial attention they deserve.
Thus, while un-peer-reviewed claims should not be given much credence, just because a particular paper has passed through peer review does not absolutely insure that the conclusions are correct or scientifically valid. The “leaks” in the system outlined above unfortunately allow some less-than-ideal work to be published in peer-reviewed journals. This should therefore be a concern when the results of any one particular study are promoted over the conclusions of a larger body of past published work (especially if it is a new study that has not been fully absorbed or assessed by the community). Indeed, this is why scientific assessments such as the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA), or the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports, and the independent reports by the National Academy of Sciences, are so important in giving a balanced overview of the state of knowledge in the scientific research community.

Problem is that far too many scientists tend to produce results that those paying the fare desire. So if there are a bunch of environmental groups paying for the research the only parts that will see the light of day are ones that support the theory. They also tend to get reviewed by like minded people. Then selective parts are hyped by those with an agenda.Big Pharma is a prime example of this. I think it would be very difficult to get completely unbiased research.
 

skookumchuck

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Why did the academic community not sound the alarm when Owl Gore the opportunist made totally screwy predictions? You cannot expect the mainstream of people to swallow anything when when it has been shown to contain toxins.
 

Cabbagesandking

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What a load of codswallop! Which to deal with. If you few would like to get together and provide a synopsis I will happily respond.

But, the IPCC is an office with a staff of ten. It does not do science. It prepares a report from the information provided by science panels. Peer review is not in question.

Then. the consensus was not of 2500 doctors etc. It is a consensus of researching climate scientists. Doctors, Vets, housewives and dead grandparents are the stuff of the Oregon Petition.

Nothing "unsavoury" was uncovered at East Anglia. The whole affair was PROVED to be a witch hunt started by McIntyre and the slimy American counterpoint of that apology for a human being.
 

skookumchuck

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What a load of codswallop! Which to deal with. If you few would like to get together and provide a synopsis I will happily respond.

But, the IPCC is an office with a staff of ten. It does not do science. It prepares a report from the information provided by science panels. Peer review is not in question.

Then. the consensus was not of 2500 doctors etc. It is a consensus of researching climate scientists. Doctors, Vets, housewives and dead grandparents are the stuff of the Oregon Petition.

Nothing "unsavoury" was uncovered at East Anglia. The whole affair was PROVED to be a witch hunt started by McIntyre and the slimy American counterpoint of that apology for a human being.

What petros said, and define, debunk, or explain Gore's role please.
 

Cabbagesandking

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Climate research, taxslave, is done almost exclusively at government institutions and at universities; not by environmental groups. Further, peer review is never done at reputable and credible publications by "like minded" people. It is done by scientists in the same or related fields who are often rivals of the author. Most scientists are not too keen on having their work reviewed because it will be reviewed mainly by others who will be looking for error.

Only in the case of a few scientists who are in denial, like Spencer, Douglass, Michaels and a couple of others does your charge apply. They are published in fringe journals that solicit their work with the promise of publication and review by choice.

De Freitas had appalling work published by his brother, editor of one of those journals. I think that was the one where half of the editors resigned in protest at the publication.

You define climate science, if you want. There is no precise definition since so much of it is new. However, it is about the study of climate systems and their physical properties. It is not about weather events. In that, there are only, at most, a few hundred actual climatologists. There are thousands in related disciplines whose work encroaches on climatology.

It is not too difficult to explain Gore's role. Gore was a documentary maker who presented a film of the current state of the climate using only credible sources and scientific references.

He was a messenger who brought some of the facts and threats of climate change to the public at large.

And did a very impressive job.

"OMFG. Where the hell did you come up with that crap?"

From unbiased reading of the literature. For example! The PETM ended with a five million year climb down to more normal conditions. It was tens of thousand of years climbing to a temperature regime that we could reach by the end of this century about 150 years.
 

captain morgan

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"OMFG. Where the hell did you come up with that crap?"

From unbiased reading of the literature. For example! The PETM ended with a five million year climb down to more normal conditions. It was tens of thousand of years climbing to a temperature regime that we could reach by the end of this century about 150 years.


'Normal conditions'?.. And exactly who is the one to dictate what 'normal conditions' are, especially in light of the fact that weather/climate has displayed massive swings?

I think that you put too much faith in the notion that 'science' has all the answers.

BTW - Gore did a great job of producing a marketable piece of fiction, that's about all.
 

Cabbagesandking

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I do not dictate "normal conditions." Nature and the laws of physics do that. And where did I say that science has all the answers? Science looks for answers, If it had them there would be no need for further research.

Gore did, indeed, do an impressive job. He brought an incredible amount of the current state of the science of climate into a short documentary and did it in a fashion that even you few naysayers could understand.

The interpretation was not to your liking perhaps. That is normal for those who are afraid to face uncomfortable truths.
 

captain morgan

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Gore did, indeed, do an impressive job. He brought an incredible amount of the current state of the science of climate into a short documentary and did it in a fashion that even you few naysayers could understand.

The movie Blade Runner was highly effective in delivering a tremendous amount of information on the risks and threats associated with using Replicans in society.... But the producers never sought to perpetuate any kind of fraud in marketing it as current fact, did they?
 

Cabbagesandking

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The movie Blade Runner was highly effective in delivering a tremendous amount of information on the risks and threats associated with using Replicans in society.... But the producers never sought to perpetuate any kind of fraud in marketing it as current fact, did they?
I don't know the answer. I never saw Blade Runner. I try to live in the real world; one that is imperilled just now by a changing climate that is not conducive to human happiness.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Climate research, taxslave, is done almost exclusively at government institutions and at universities; not by environmental groups.

I've got some rain clouds for you sunshine!

Another piece of muck for the gangue pile.

I'm going to have to start billing you for this educaton.


Here’s an extensive list of documents created or co-authored by the WWF and cited by this Nobel-winning IPCC AR4 report:
  • Allianz and World Wildlife Fund, 2006: Climate change and the financial sector: an agenda for action, 59 pp. [Accessed 03.05.07: http://www.wwf.org.uk/ filelibrary/pdf/allianz_rep_0605.pdf]
  • Austin, G., A. Williams, G. Morris, R. Spalding-Feche, and R. Worthington, 2003: Employment potential of renewable energy in South Africa. Earthlife Africa, Johannesburg and World Wildlife Fund (WWF), Denmark, November, 104 pp.
  • Baker, T., 2005: Vulnerability Assessment of the North-East Atlantic Shelf Marine Ecoregion to Climate Change, Workshop Project Report, WWF, Godalming, Surrey, 79 pp.
  • Coleman, T., O. Hoegh-Guldberg, D. Karoly, I. Lowe, T. McMichael, C.D. Mitchell, G.I. Pearman, P. Scaife and J. Reynolds, 2004: Climate Change: Solutions for Australia. Australian Climate Group, 35 pp. http://www.wwf.org.au/ publications/acg_solutions.pdf
  • Dlugolecki, A. and S. Lafeld, 2005: Climate change – agenda for action: the financial sector’s perspective. Allianz Group and WWF, Munich [may be the same document as "Allianz" above, except that one is dated 2006 and the other 2005]
  • Fritsche, U.R., K. Hünecke, A. Hermann, F. Schulze, and K. Wiegmann, 2006: Sustainability standards for bioenergy. Öko-Institut e.V., Darmstadt, WWF Germany, Frankfurt am Main, November
  • Giannakopoulos, C., M. Bindi, M. Moriondo, P. LeSager and T. Tin, 2005: Climate Change Impacts in the Mediterranean Resulting from a 2oC Global Temperature Rise. WWF report, Gland Switzerland. Accessed 01.10.2006 at http://assets.panda.org/downloads/medreportfinal8july05.pdf.
  • WWF, 2004: Deforestation threatens the cradle of reef diversity. World Wide Fund for Nature, 2 December 2004. http://www.wwf.org/
  • WWF, 2004: Living Planet Report 2004. WWF- World Wide Fund for Nature (formerly World Wildlife Fund), Gland, Switzerland, 44 pp.
  • WWF (World Wildlife Fund), 2005: An overview of glaciers, glacier retreat, and subsequent impacts in Nepal, India and China. World Wildlife Fund, Nepal Programme, 79 pp.
  • Zarsky, L. and K. Gallagher, 2003: Searching for the Holy Grail? Making FDI Work for Sustainable Development. Analytical Paper, World Wildlife Fund (WWF), Switzerland
Finally, there are these authoritative sources cited by the IPCC – publications with names such as Leisure and Event Management:
  • Jones, B. and D. Scott, 2007: Implications of climate change to Ontario’s provincial parks. Leisure, (in press)
  • Jones, B., D. Scott and H. Abi Khaled, 2006: Implications of climate change for outdoor event planning: a case study of three special events in Canada’s National Capital region. Event Management, 10, 63-76
 

captain morgan

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I don't know the answer. I never saw Blade Runner. I try to live in the real world; one that is imperilled just now by a changing climate that is not conducive to human happiness.


Psssst.... I want to share a little secret with you, but you gotta promise not to tell anyone else, OK?

The 'climate' is in a constant state of change; kinda like the tides are always active. The idea that humanity can set the global thermostat to a comfy and constant 24C is a myth.

Remember... Don't tell no one, especially Gore!
 

Cabbagesandking

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Apr 24, 2012
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I've got some rain clouds for you sunshine!

Another piece of muck for the gangue pile.

I'm going to have to start billing you for this educaton.


Here’s an extensive list of documents created or co-authored by the WWF and cited by this Nobel-winning IPCC AR4 report:

Did you count them? Are you unable to see that you support what I said? The great majority of studies of climate are done in universities and government bodies.