Zimmerman charged with Trayvon murder

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim



It would seem that perhaps this young fellow might have put a beating on Zimmerman before he was
shot.

Or fighting back? It's not at all clear who started the fight. Witnesses called by Zimmerman's lawyers at the bond hearing couldn't tell the court who started it.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim

Or fighting back? It's not at all clear who started the fight. Witnesses called by Zimmerman's lawyers at the bond hearing couldn't tell the court who started it.
That works both ways.

Beyond reasonable doubt, will require more than the absence of witnesses to who may have initiated the altercation.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim

Or fighting back? It's not at all clear who started the fight. Witnesses called by Zimmerman's lawyers at the bond hearing couldn't tell the court who started it.

A witness at the scene saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating his head off a curb. Another witness who called 911 said he heard Zimmerman calling for help. Whether he confronted Martin is irrelevant to the fact that Martin was beating his head off a curb and the rush to judgment on the part of many, including NBC deliberately doctoring the 911 tape to make it look racially motivated is quite telling.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Patrolling your community is stalking?

Participants in COPP Take back the night, are stalkers?

That doesn't mean it's a necessity.
pa·trol (p
-tr
l
)
n.1. The act of moving about an area especially by an authorized and trained person or group, for purposes of observation, inspection, or security.



stalk 2 (stôk)
v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks

v.intr.1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.


v.tr.1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

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If it can be shown that killing the person was necessary as an act of self defense.

I knew a guy that was a real thug and he was pulled over one night by a female police officer. When she attempted to arrest him he overpowered her and began beating her head on the road way. She unholstered her weapon and shot him dead.

I'd say she was justified.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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pa·trol (p
-tr
l
)
n.1. The act of moving about an area especially by an authorized and trained person or group, for purposes of observation, inspection, or security.



stalk 2 (stôk)
v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks

v.intr.1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.


v.tr.1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.
Nice dodge.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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pa·trol (p
-tr
l
)
n.1. The act of moving about an area especially by an authorized and trained person or group, for purposes of observation, inspection, or security.



stalk 2 (stôk)
v. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks

v.intr.1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.


v.tr.1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.

Petro's argument (Pet rosses argument)

1. To Ignore the rest of the facts.
2. To Focus on words like Stalking and Hoody
3. When that fails continue to ignore the facts

See also:

She was dressed like a **** and flirting so she deserved be raped argument.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

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Mar 19, 2006
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We haven't heard that wearing a hoodie and deserved to be stalked and shot?

Is that all you got? Did you go to spin doctoring school? Say it enough and people will believe?

Hoody+Stalking=Ignore all other evidence

Your debating skills are limited.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim

A witness at the scene saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating his head off a curb. Another witness who called 911 said he heard Zimmerman calling for help.

Witnesses can be wrong. Other witnesses have reported conflicting stories of what they saw and heard. And audio experts have listened to the tapes and said it is very unlikely that it was Zimmerman who called for help.

But that's why there are trials. To sort out the truth from the fiction.

Whether he confronted Martin is irrelevant to the fact that Martin was beating his head off a curb

No it isn't. As Bear said above, this line applies both ways. If Trayvon feels his life is in imminent danger, then bashing the guys head is completely justified, just as if Zimmerman felt his life is in imminent danger, he is justified in using deadly force. I posted the link to the Florida law in the other thread. It will very much matter who started the altercation, because the stand your ground defense does not apply to someone who provokes the use of force against them, and has not exhausted all means to escape the danger they feel threatened with. We already know that Zimmerman chased Trayvon down, so if he started the fight with Trayvon, then it doesn't look at all like use of deadly force was justified according to Florida State laws.

If you want to look it up for yourself, it's Florida Statute 776.041 (2).
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim

Witnesses can be wrong. Other witnesses have reported conflicting stories of what they saw and heard. And audio experts have listened to the tapes and said it is very unlikely that it was Zimmerman who called for help.

But that's why there are trials. To sort out the truth from the fiction.

I agree completely. However, NBC, Jesse Jackson, The Black Panthers, Al Sharpton or even Petros were not witnesses at the scene.


No it isn't. As Bear said above, this line applies both ways. If Trayvon feels his life is in imminent danger, then bashing the guys head is completely justified, just as if Zimmerman felt his life is in imminent danger, he is justified in using deadly force. I posted the link to the Florida law in the other thread. It will very much matter who started the altercation, because the stand your ground defense does not apply to someone who provokes the use of force against them, and has not exhausted all means to escape the danger they feel threatened with. We already know that Zimmerman chased Trayvon down, so if he started the fight with Trayvon, then it doesn't look at all like use of deadly force was justified according to Florida State laws.

If you want to look it up for yourself, it's Florida Statute 776.041 (2).
If evidence comes forth that Zimmerman assaulted Martin before the fight ensued I will concede that he was legally responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin. but if he was simply following him or even asked him why he was there, then that hardly warrants the reaction the evidence so far suggests.

Who was stalking who?

When completely without argument the Petros will go into a state of lethargy and keep repeating the same words.

Hinterland who's who
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim

I agree completely. However, NBC, Jesse Jackson, The Black Panthers, Al Sharpton or even Petros were not witnesses at the scene.

Nope.

If evidence comes forth that Zimmerman assaulted Martin before the fight ensued I will concede that he was legally responsible for the death of Trayvon Martin. but if he was simply following him or even asked him why he was there, then that hardly warrants the reaction the evidence so far suggests.

Some of the evidence. The evidence is telling more than one story, not surprising since it's been in the media for so long, and bounced around by bloggers and partisans of all stripes. It should have gone to court far earlier. Both Zimmerman and Trayvon's family deserve that much.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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Re: Zimmerman photo bolsters self-defense claim

Nope.



Some of the evidence. The evidence is telling more than one story, not surprising since it's been in the media for so long, and bounced around by bloggers and partisans of all stripes. It should have gone to court far earlier. Both Zimmerman and Trayvon's family deserve that much.

I completely agree. Sometimes a publication gag is a good thing.