What would YOU want to hear at church?

L Gilbert

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Just the opposite, read to get the 'outline' and wait till it actually exists, ie all your dead relatives standing in front of you.
I think you are presuming to know my reaction. Initially, I'd have thought I went bonkers or was hallucinating for some reason. After getting over that initial impression, I'd likely investigate to find out the natural reasons for the event.
If that condition doesn't ever exist then God never existed, if at some point that id seen by you then you know who is at work.
Nope. Initially, I'd have thought I went bonkers or was hallucinating for some reason. After getting over that initial impression, I'd likely investigate to find out the natural reasons for the event.
The Bible is a brief description of what power is, it is not power by itself

1Co:4:20:
For the kingdom of God is not in word,
but in power.


You can even make your donations from online banking lol
Yet the Bible all by itself seems to have a lot of power over some people. Silly, I know, but that's life and sometimes life is silly.

No donations of any value from me. :)
 

MHz

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I think you are presuming to know my reaction. Initially, I'd have thought I went bonkers or was hallucinating for some reason. After getting over that initial impression, I'd likely investigate to find out the natural reasons for the event. Nope. Initially, I'd have thought I went bonkers or was hallucinating for some reason. After getting over that initial impression, I'd likely investigate to find out the natural reasons for the event. Yet the Bible all by itself seems to have a lot of power over some people. Silly, I know, but that's life and sometimes life is silly.

No donations of any value from me. :)
Time contemplating Scripture and time helping others less fortunate than yourself is the only two human activities He cares about.

I started reading the Bible after this (not wildly the NY and then put it down for about 10 yrs, this 'report' was typed up about 12 years after the event. It was a not a problem to recall even the smallest detail. The validity of the Bible today is via the comple\xity and the meshing that is has and does that points to it being divine in nature.

I started of with the Lord's Prayer and just as I was about to start my plea I got a vision that I was outside my body and saw myself, from the back and above, in a kneeling position with a mist a very short distance in front of me that obscured any further view.
I heard myself say "Master, I don't feel so good." A large hand came out of the mist and completely enclosed my body. This happened in a 'twinkling of an eye', I found myself enclosed in this hand and it scared me to no end because I struggled to be free of it's grasp but found I could move not even one little bit. This feeling of being scared lasted only for the briefest of moments.
What replaced it was the most peaceful feeling I have ever experienced, bar none, and to be quite truthful have not experienced that 'level' of peace since.
As soon as this wave of peace (meaning I was in the company of someone who cared for me much more than my words will ever be able to describe) overcame me the hand loosed it 'grip' on me and it opened and I found myself sitting on this palm facing the ends of the fingers and seeing further forward than that.
In front was a hallway, very tall and the walls were black. The walls were not smooth, but rather, had many indentations and sharp corners at these indentations. There was a faint light at each of these 'corners' and that was the only way I could tell the walls were not smooth, the rest was pitch black, I could see neither floor nor ceiling, only these faint corners.
We were moving down this hallway at a leisurely rate and as I was feeling very 'relaxed' I was going to change my sitting position so I had my hands behind my back and then I could lean back and rest on them. As I was leaning back one hand seemed to miss the expected surface that would support it and I ended up rolling to one side. I looked back to see what had 'gone wrong' and I observed a great hole in the palm of this hand. I immediately burst into tears and said with alarm "You've been hurt!"
I heard not a word but my tears left me and I spent the next few moments crawling around the hand, much like I did on the school-ground equipment when I was a small child.
This hallway had corners in addition to the indentations in that it was not straight as we have halls. We came around one corner and off to the right I could see a faint glow of light some distance down this other smaller hallway.
I asked "What's down there?" A voice (rather deep but very 'soothing') answered "You're not ready for this, but I will show you."
Off we went down this other hallway going around gently curving corners and the light got brighter with each corner we passed. In very short order we came out on a dusty,earthen path and I could see a sky. This path was rather narrow and had grass growing on either edge.
On the grass to the left there were several rabbits hopping around, a few bounds then they would stop and nibble the grass, a few more bounds, another nibble. Our presence did not disturb them in the least.
Just behind the rabbits, only a few yards from the path, was what I would best describe would be a three-wire barbed fence, not in the best of repair as the wire sagged a bit between the posts and none of the posts stood up properly but were tilted a bit at various angles.
A bit of distance from this was another fence made of planking, much like you would find around any farm that kept horses or cows, and behind were some farm buildings, house and small barn made of the same wood as the plank fence.
All the wood was very weathered but the condition of the buildings and fence would not warrant paint as this would be a waste because of their condition.
As I looked over at this scene I noticed several dogs in the yard. There was much running and yelping and much dust from all this activity. I could not determine if this activity was caused by our presence or not and if, in fact, the dogs were playing or it was a somewhat more serious matter they were involved in. The circles they made were small and done in quick fashion so in the short time I observed them they completed many circles.
The path we were on also had the gentle twists and turns like the hallways we had just came from did. We continued down this dusty path and came around another corner and came to a stop. The path ended here and was replaced by a large open space covered in lush grass, a short distance from us I could see gently rolling hill. I could see far enough to see three or four 'rows' of these hills, one behind the other. Very beautiful and serene but what was most astounding about these hills was that they were completely covered by people, standing so closely together that not one more person could have stood with them. There was a small open space between where the path ended and this large crowd stood, which is how I knew the grass was so lush.
On this grass, about midway between the end of the path and where the crowd started stood two people, one man, one woman. As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere.
The two in front spoke no words but it was quite plain they were pleased to see 'Him'. No words were spoken to any from 'Him' either.
We turned and went back from where we had come from. Back into the little hallway till we turned left at the larger one.
We continued down this for some distance until we came to a doorway that was on our left.
I heard a voice say "This is a safe place for you."
The door opened and I went inside to a circular room about 50 steps in width. The room was decorated in many shades of brown and the 'outer wall' had shelves that went way round all filled with books. The middle had furnishings that matched the colors of the bookcases.
The door closed and I was alone.
I stood for a moment and went to the door and opened it just a crack. What I felt was sheer terror, and quickly re-closed the door and felt the terror was gone, as long as the door remained closed.
What was outside was not only terror but evil in that it had nothing good planned for me should I be foolish enough to open my door and go into the passage on my own.
I sat up at point and jumped off the bed..
 

L Gilbert

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Time contemplating Scripture and time helping others less fortunate than yourself is the only two human activities He cares about.
Not according to the 10 commandments.

I started reading the Bible after this (not wildly the NY and then put it down for about 10 yrs, this 'report' was typed up about 12 years after the event. It was a not a problem to recall even the smallest detail. The validity of the Bible today is via the comple\xity and the meshing that is has and does that points to it being divine in nature.
Perhaps it does "mesh" and it is complex but a lot of things are. That's no reason to assume it is divine, though. A human body meshes a lot of things together and is quite complex, but to assume it is divine is a bit presumputous and arrogant.

I started of with the Lord's Prayer and just as I was about to start my plea I got a vision that I was outside my body and saw myself, from the back and above, in a kneeling position with a mist a very short distance in front of me that obscured any further view.
I heard myself say "Master, I don't feel so good." A large hand came out of the mist and completely enclosed my body. This happened in a 'twinkling of an eye', I found myself enclosed in this hand and it scared me to no end because I struggled to be free of it's grasp but found I could move not even one little bit. This feeling of being scared lasted only for the briefest of moments.
What replaced it was the most peaceful feeling I have ever experienced, bar none, and to be quite truthful have not experienced that 'level' of peace since.
As soon as this wave of peace (meaning I was in the company of someone who cared for me much more than my words will ever be able to describe) overcame me the hand loosed it 'grip' on me and it opened and I found myself sitting on this palm facing the ends of the fingers and seeing further forward than that.
In front was a hallway, very tall and the walls were black. The walls were not smooth, but rather, had many indentations and sharp corners at these indentations. There was a faint light at each of these 'corners' and that was the only way I could tell the walls were not smooth, the rest was pitch black, I could see neither floor nor ceiling, only these faint corners.
We were moving down this hallway at a leisurely rate and as I was feeling very 'relaxed' I was going to change my sitting position so I had my hands behind my back and then I could lean back and rest on them. As I was leaning back one hand seemed to miss the expected surface that would support it and I ended up rolling to one side. I looked back to see what had 'gone wrong' and I observed a great hole in the palm of this hand. I immediately burst into tears and said with alarm "You've been hurt!"
I heard not a word but my tears left me and I spent the next few moments crawling around the hand, much like I did on the school-ground equipment when I was a small child.
This hallway had corners in addition to the indentations in that it was not straight as we have halls. We came around one corner and off to the right I could see a faint glow of light some distance down this other smaller hallway.
I asked "What's down there?" A voice (rather deep but very 'soothing') answered "You're not ready for this, but I will show you."
Off we went down this other hallway going around gently curving corners and the light got brighter with each corner we passed. In very short order we came out on a dusty,earthen path and I could see a sky. This path was rather narrow and had grass growing on either edge.
On the grass to the left there were several rabbits hopping around, a few bounds then they would stop and nibble the grass, a few more bounds, another nibble. Our presence did not disturb them in the least.
Just behind the rabbits, only a few yards from the path, was what I would best describe would be a three-wire barbed fence, not in the best of repair as the wire sagged a bit between the posts and none of the posts stood up properly but were tilted a bit at various angles.
A bit of distance from this was another fence made of planking, much like you would find around any farm that kept horses or cows, and behind were some farm buildings, house and small barn made of the same wood as the plank fence.
All the wood was very weathered but the condition of the buildings and fence would not warrant paint as this would be a waste because of their condition.
As I looked over at this scene I noticed several dogs in the yard. There was much running and yelping and much dust from all this activity. I could not determine if this activity was caused by our presence or not and if, in fact, the dogs were playing or it was a somewhat more serious matter they were involved in. The circles they made were small and done in quick fashion so in the short time I observed them they completed many circles.
The path we were on also had the gentle twists and turns like the hallways we had just came from did. We continued down this dusty path and came around another corner and came to a stop. The path ended here and was replaced by a large open space covered in lush grass, a short distance from us I could see gently rolling hill. I could see far enough to see three or four 'rows' of these hills, one behind the other. Very beautiful and serene but what was most astounding about these hills was that they were completely covered by people, standing so closely together that not one more person could have stood with them. There was a small open space between where the path ended and this large crowd stood, which is how I knew the grass was so lush.
On this grass, about midway between the end of the path and where the crowd started stood two people, one man, one woman. As remarkable as this whole scene was I was still even more astounded to see not one strand of hair on any of their heads, not one anywhere.
The two in front spoke no words but it was quite plain they were pleased to see 'Him'. No words were spoken to any from 'Him' either.
We turned and went back from where we had come from. Back into the little hallway till we turned left at the larger one.
We continued down this for some distance until we came to a doorway that was on our left.
I heard a voice say "This is a safe place for you."
The door opened and I went inside to a circular room about 50 steps in width. The room was decorated in many shades of brown and the 'outer wall' had shelves that went way round all filled with books. The middle had furnishings that matched the colors of the bookcases.
The door closed and I was alone.
I stood for a moment and went to the door and opened it just a crack. What I felt was sheer terror, and quickly re-closed the door and felt the terror was gone, as long as the door remained closed.
What was outside was not only terror but evil in that it had nothing good planned for me should I be foolish enough to open my door and go into the passage on my own.
I sat up at point and jumped off the bed..
Yeah, I sit up in bed after having odd dreams, too.
 

Cliffy

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1Co:4:20:
For the kingdom of God is not in word,
but in power.
And Jesus said, "the kingdom of god is within."

If I saw all my dead relatives standing in front of me, I would freak out... some goddamn apocalyptic freakin' zombie movie that would be!
 

MHz

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Jas:2:8:
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
Jas:2:9:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas:2:10:
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
Jas:2:11:
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
Do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.

I was laying down to say a prayer, try to follow the story.

And Jesus said, "the kingdom of god is within."

If I saw all my dead relatives standing in front of me, I would freak out... some goddamn apocalyptic freakin' zombie movie that would be!
How about if God fixes their hearts first?
 

Cliffy

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Jas:2:8:
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
Jas:2:9:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas:2:10:
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
Jas:2:11:
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
Do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.

I was laying down to say a prayer, try to follow the story.


How about if God fixes their hearts first?
1. Who is Jas?

2. You are entitled to you fantasies.
 

L Gilbert

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Jas:2:8:
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself,
ye do well:
Jas:2:9:
But if ye have respect to persons,
ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas:2:10:
For whosoever shall keep the whole law,
and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
Jas:2:11:
For he that said,
Do not commit adultery,
said also,
Do not kill.
Now if thou commit no adultery,
yet if thou kill,
thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Uhuh. What about the first few commandments. They are outside your parameters of doing good for others.

I was laying down to say a prayer, try to follow the story.
I apologize for thinking that you borrowed the story from someone else. Either way, I have had weird dreams, have smoked opium, popped a couple tabs of LSD, had visions while sitting watching campfires, had visions after being short of oxygen, etc. too.


How about if God fixes their hearts first?
How about if this creature fixed anything it screwed up to begin with (if it exists, that is)?
 

MHz

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The first law is followed by doing what the 2nd law suggests. If we love God we will follow His advice and take direction from Jesus until we meet GOD at the Great White Throne.
 

L Gilbert

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The first law is followed by doing what the 2nd law suggests. If we love God we will follow His advice and take direction from Jesus until we meet GOD at the Great White Throne.
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me."
"“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them."
"“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain."
"“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. "

Those have little to do with anything but sating the vanity of an egotistical god.
 

MHz

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A person is following the first law when they say the Lord's prayer, surely you can see those words being a submission that puts you on bended knee already. It also means the words get to the 'right person'. (the words don't even have to be 'bang-on'

M't:6:4-13:
That thine alms may be in secret:
and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest,
thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets,
that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you,
They have their reward.
But thou,
when thou prayest,
enter into thy closet,
and when thou hast shut thy door,
pray to thy Father which is in secret;
and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray,
use not vain repetitions,
as the heathen do:
for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them:
for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of,
before ye ask him.
After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory, for ever.
Amen.

If saying this is part of the clear directions and it is not followed what are the odds the prayer will 'not be heard and acted on'. greater or smaller?

Lu:18:9-14:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous,
and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray;
the one a Pharisee,
and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,
God,
I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are,
extortioners,
unjust,
adulterers,
or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week,
I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican,
standing afar off,
would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast,
saying,
God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you,
this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased;
and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 
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Spade

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Hey, that's the same address to which I sent a $1000 donation last year. I hope I receive my tax receipt soon, as I wish to start my 2011 taxes!
 

Cliffy

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Back in '69 a friend was walking in downtown London, UK and heard music coming from a cathedral. He was surprised to see Deep Purple playing in there. I would like to see Pink Floyd playing The Wall in St Peter's.
 

bluebyrd35

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A person is following the first law when they say the Lord's prayer, surely you can see those words being a submission that puts you on bended knee already. It also means the words get to the 'right person'. (the words don't even have to be 'bang-on'

M't:6:4-13:
That thine alms may be in secret:
and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
And when thou prayest,
thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets,
that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you,
They have their reward.
But thou,
when thou prayest,
enter into thy closet,
and when thou hast shut thy door,
pray to thy Father which is in secret;
and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
But when ye pray,
use not vain repetitions,
as the heathen do:
for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not ye therefore like unto them:
for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of,
before ye ask him.
After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory, for ever.
Amen.

If saying this is part of the clear directions and it is not followed what are the odds the prayer will 'not be heard and acted on'. greater or smaller?

Lu:18:9-14:
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous,
and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray;
the one a Pharisee,
and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,
God,
I thank thee,
that I am not as other men are,
extortioners,
unjust,
adulterers,
or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week,
I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican,
standing afar off,
would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast,
saying,
God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you,
this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased;
and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Here you go........from another fairy tale:-

Scarecrow: Come along, Dorothy. You don't want any of *those* apples.
Apple Tree: Are you hinting my apples aren't what they ought to be?
Scarecrow: Oh, no. It's just that she doesn't like little green worms!

You've got to agree........ The Wizard of Oz is a much better story than the biblical one you keep quoting and it is about as true!!
 

L Gilbert

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A person is following the first law when they say the Lord's prayer, surely you can see those words being a submission that puts you on bended knee already. It also means the words get to the 'right person'. (the words don't even have to be 'bang-on'
So? What does that have to do with my point?

My point, again, is that you said, "Time contemplating Scripture and time helping others less fortunate than yourself is the only two human activities He cares about." I said that that idea doesn't include the first 4 commandments, which are strictly about satisfying the vanity of an egotistical god.
 

MHz

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To which I said this first law is followed by saying the Lords prayer as the opening part of any prayer (not that there have to be a huge amount)

M'r:12:30:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind,
and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.

Please explain how the verse below doesn't qualify as doing just that? It recognizes that the name 'God' is a holy name, Jews and Muslims would have to agree with that little statement. (not that they would want to). I don't think it is enough to put you into eternal bondage etc. It's like addressing a letter Dear God, blah blah etc.

M't:6:9:
After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.

Is this the new merry-go-round topic?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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What I like to hear is a good resounding fart off a pew right in a solemn part of mass, then a quick snap of the neck as you turn to the guy next to you and give him a dirty look. Never fails.
 

MHz

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Least you could do was light it so it don't stink the place up. Wash your nuts in the bowl of water when you come in too if ya like.
 

MHz

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Not all bush people take regular showers, Easter and Christmas for sure though. lol

How about bringing your own incense tea ball or whatever, light Enigma chanting etc.