What would YOU want to hear at church?

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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My cash outflow is the same for both.
So?
How come the 'debunking' always leave an issue or more as being 'unresolved'?
Always? Even if neither the debunkers or the conspiracy "theorists" can prove anything conclusively, usually if one can disprove all or most of the claims of the other, they've done a pretty good job of debunking. Also if the evidence one produces leaves little room for rational doubt, then it's pretty clear. And if there are variables that neither can qualify or qauntify, the issue is unresolved but has a probability one way or other.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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So? Always? Even if neither the debunkers or the conspiracy "theorists" can prove anything conclusively, usually if one can disprove all or most of the claims of the other, they've done a pretty good job of debunking. Also if the evidence one produces leaves little room for rational doubt, then it's pretty clear. And if there are variables that neither can qualify or qauntify, the issue is unresolved but has a probability one way or other.
If $50 M was put into the towers 1 and 2 and questions remain about tower 7 the throw $100M at it's investigation. It isn't like the money is coming out of their own pockets and it should be as important as sending billions overseas with no receipts coming back.

Plain as that, spend a little $$$ to 'calm the 'nay' sayers. A convert often become the most ardent followers. Better yet yet the US pay the Hague 51% of the costs of the investigation and trials that occur. It is the same as Lebannon is asked to contribute to the investigation of it's elected gov. in a criminal matter that does have leads and proofs.
 

MHz

Time Out
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Try not to be any sillier than you can avoid. Mixing multiple meanings of the same word is one of the lamest debating tricks around. You can do better than that.
At what, giving you things that test your 'bullbiscut' detectors ability to handle any/all truths that come 'a persons way'? An imperfect reader has a better chance at discovering 'hidden things' than a reader who already has 'perfect knowledge'. Perfect knowledge is also known as a wall or a blind alley.

Having the Scriptures determine how the verses are to be taken should be the preferred method over taking the reasoning of a man or even a group of 'learned men' as being the definitive solution to a riddle/mystery surround a passage or doctrine. If the 'accepted use' for cut-off is applied to a verse from the 70 weeks prophecy then there is a change 'implied' if it was not for several other references that correct that 'possible error in thinking'. If the correct use is almost exclusive to a one use type of thing then it would seem like that sort of knowledge would only be available to a through examination of the use of that word compared to a 'most likely meaning' judgment.

Nobody would think/support an examination of all the OT mentions of Babylon is needed even though the NT mentions a Babylon that is obviously a different place. If such an undertaking was done and just one or two or three references applied would that make the 99.97% of the trails that were true dead ends, would that justify the time needed for such an extensive undertaking. If that isn't worth it then if all references to Babylon that involved punishment were about Satan's Babylon then would the search be worth the effort even though many were still in context and being a reference to Neb and his Babylon.

Link please....
Heb:12:2:
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,
despising the shame,
and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Nothing you or the beave's ever posted here has presented any challenge to my BS detector.
Well that post set mine off, lol. I seem to recall you declining to reply to a theory that pertained to why the stars lose their ability to create light compared to a drastic change in their velocity as the hold together under the current forces predicted. You said you weren't going to write the 10,000 page answer to a theory we were talking about. I wouldn't take on 10,000 pages either, however I might be able to scrape up ore than a few words that offer nothing in terms of being 'an answer'. 'I don't know' is still in my list, I try not to overuse it though.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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So why put the blame on the Bible for you not being a believer? Thomas was saved even though he demanded proof, there are no verses that say you won't be given the same opportunity. Why do you find that to be objectionable?
Where do you get that I'm blaming the bible for anything? I have made the case, that in its present state, as manipulated by men, it bares little resemblance to the original writings. But that is not my point. You, Alley and adapted all suck on the finger and are afraid to take the journey. You sit around and expound on what you found but fail to put it to practical use. Time to either step out of you diapers and get on with it or suffer diaper rash. Like I said, you have no idea what the truth is because all you have done is dissect scripture and you have no faith because you are afraid to walk away from it and get on with life.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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Why do you need a pastor to tell you what god is all about? Are you too dumb or too lazy to find out for yourself?

It's your prerogative if you don't want to listen to a pastor, but then I challenge you to read the Gospel according to John. One chapter a day if you wish, and afterwards you tell me who Jesus was or at the very least who John thought Jesus was.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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It's your prerogative if you don't want to listen to a pastor, but then I challenge you to read the Gospel according to John. One chapter a day if you wish, and afterwards you tell me who Jesus was or at the very least who John thought Jesus was.
Why would I bother to reread it. I know what it says. It is just his opinion. What I want to know is, are you willing to take the journey that Jesus took to reach the truth instead of sucking on the finger?
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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the Bible's sufficiently large, complex, and inconsistent, that you can find support in it for any position you'd care to take.

Any position? Can you show me where in the bible it says Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh? Can you show me where it says it is better to trust yourself than it is to trust God? Can you show me where it says a wise person says in his heart there is no God? Can you show me where it says everyone will go to heaven regardless of their beliefs, or where it says there is more than one way to heaven?

You cannot, because the bible says the exact opposite of these things and the bible doesn't contradict itself.
 

In Between Man

The Biblical Position
Sep 11, 2008
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Judgement is MINE sayeth the Lord.

The ULTIMATE judgment belongs to the Lord. He's going to decide what happens on Judgment day, but on this earth it's actually imperative that we do judge otherwise we'll fall into depravity! God gave us the ability to discern between right and wrong for a reason. What happened the first time you heard about the crimes of Robert Pickton or Clifford Olsen? You judged them just like the rest of us!

Therefore it's not the place for some twerpy little mouthpiece using his particular version of Christianity as billy club.

This is judgment!
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Really? Considering the stuff you generally post, I'd have thought yours doesn't work at all.
You'd be surprised at the number of questions I've asked. When the answers start coming in you have to be ready to accept a version that will be new to you. Yours has rejected everything since it was ever first turned on. I'm at a loss to see how that has benefited you in the long-run when the history nor the predictions about the future are never fully accurate.

You may not see a difference in having a verse/passage as a reference point over the acceptance coming from a 'general attitude of believers' being the reason to think a certain way. I think the freezing rain fits in so I will use it as part of the flood story.

I couldn't even say for sure if time is on my side as far as the path to proof goes. I know a watered down version of God is more dangerous to society than an exulted one is. At least mankind wouldn't be tempted to build 'Babylon' and then burn it down and then proclaim all prophecies fulfilled, just for get those 666 verses that speak of a massive deception by the powers that be.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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The ULTIMATE judgment belongs to the Lord. He's going to decide what happens on Judgment day, but on this earth it's actually imperative that we do judge otherwise we'll fall into depravity! God gave us the ability to discern between right and wrong for a reason. What happened the first time you heard about the crimes of Robert Pickton or Clifford Olsen? You judged them just like the rest of us!



This is judgment!
I'm not claiming to be the word of God either ... or his go-between

ETA: Besides - if you were as learned about your book as you portray, you'd know the correct word for the quote is Vengeance....
 
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Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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As I suspected, both Alley and Mhz are afraid to face the challenge. Not surprising. They continue to spout on about fingers.