How about them Canucks!

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
You bet, especially for offensive forwards, ironically I was trying to tell Cannuck that very fact the other day but he knew more about it than I did, so figured best to just shut up in deference to the great connoiseur. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

plus/minus is only 5 on 5, I have lots of respect for that stat. The selke trophy
does too.
all forwards should be aware of their plus/minus, and strive to keep it in
the plus.
in this day and age of hockey, there isn't much emphasis put on offensive
forwards, especially on a team with a coach like vineault, and most other
coaches in this league 'now'.
The defensive game, played by all players is very important, and all
forwards should do it well.
The sedins are not offensive forwards, they play a 200 ft game, and
their defensive play is a part of their game they take very seriously.

There is no such thing on this team like Bertuzzi use to play, skate
hard one way, and cruise the other, he can't do that on the detroit team,
or he will be riding the pine, and no player can do it playing for vineault,
or they will be in chicago, or traded.
 
Last edited:

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Looks like Minnesota is going right into the dumpster! :lol:

yeah, i've got it on, as well as the san jose/washington game.

minnesota looks awful.

the only thing good about the game was iginla scoring his 500th goal, good for him.

san jose leading 4-2 in the third.

boston will be playing chicago and detroit soon, interesting to see how those
games turn out.
 
Last edited:

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Although any statistics are useful, no single one is the end all. Plus minus didn't tell much of a story about this game.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Although any statistics are useful, no single one is the end all. Plus minus didn't tell much of a story about this game.

There's no doubt they are an indication, but I look at number of goals primarily. :lol:

I see rookie Schneider beat Timmy on save percentage. I like that stat.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
Although any statistics are useful, no single one is the end all. Plus minus didn't tell much of a story about this game.

if one wants to know true reading of plus/minus stats they are all in NHL.com and Canucks.com, and one can
follow teams and players seasonal plus/minus as they progress along.

no, one game does not tell the story.

only certain players play on power plays and kill penalties, so stats would be out of wack
if the plus/minus was recorded from those plays.

it is fair for all players to have the stats from 5 on 5. makes sense to me.

players are very aware of keeping a respectable plus/minus, as coaches are very
aware of those stats, both by watching the player and following the stats.

a player wants to stay on a team, he better be very aware of that stat.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
It would make more sense to count PP's and to count +/- for those sitting in the penalty box. Then it would provide a better picture of who is contributing what. There lots of meaningless goals scored in this league. I'm sure they count empty-netters.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
It would make more sense to count PP's and to count +/- for those sitting in the penalty box. Then it would provide a better picture of who is contributing what. There lots of meaningless goals scored in this league. I'm sure they count empty-netters.

I can agree to that!
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
I can agree to that!
nope, I don't agree at all.

a player playing in a situation with one less player, or one more than the other side
shouldn't be given or have taken away plus/minus points.
sides are not even, those stats should show over the season just how a player plays
both defensively and offensively, and it tells the coaches, along with many others
factors just how responsible the player is, 5 on 5, not lopsided sometimes and
sometimes not.

there are other stats which explain power play goals, and other situations.
plus/minus is just one stat, but explains a lot, both about the team and about
individual players.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
nope, I don't agree at all.

a player playing in a situation with one less player, or one more than the other side
shouldn't be given or have taken away plus/minus points.
sides are not even, those stats should show over the season just how a player plays
both defensively and offensively, and it tells the coaches, along with many others
factors just how responsible the player is, 5 on 5, not lopsided sometimes and
sometimes not.

there are other stats which explain power play goals, and other situations.
plus/minus is just one stat, but explains a lot, both about the team and about
individual players.
If he was good enough he'd play on the powerplay too. If his contribution is limited then who cares what his plus/minus is.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
nope, I don't agree at all.

a player playing in a situation with one less player, or one more than the other side
shouldn't be given or have taken away plus/minus points.
sides are not even, those stats should show over the season just how a player plays
both defensively and offensively, and it tells the coaches, along with many others
factors just how responsible the player is, 5 on 5, not lopsided sometimes and
sometimes not.

there are other stats which explain power play goals, and other situations.
plus/minus is just one stat, but explains a lot, both about the team and about
individual players.

You don't feel if a player gets a penalty and costs his team a goal, that it shouldn't be reflected in the +/-.?
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
You don't feel if a player gets a penalty and costs his team a goal, that it shouldn't be reflected in the +/-.?

if they wanted to do 'spin off' plus/minus stats, then one could think up things like
that, but the main stat is 5 on 5, and keeps all players equal on the ice, not shorthanded,
or anything that would throw the balance 'off'.
the point is, all players were playing with the same amount of players for the
stat to be compiled, which gives them a 'pure' stat.

If he was good enough he'd play on the powerplay too. If his contribution is limited then who cares what his plus/minus is.

it still throws the stat out of whack, and its not about who cares, its about
accuracy of the stat.
there is all kinds of stats, and i'm sure the coaches/mgs have their own list
of stats, over and above the nhl.com stats, which allows them to break down
much more detail for all of their own players.

when one is going over the plus/minus stats, it is good to be aware of what team
he plays on, and how good or bad that team plus/minus is, eg. rick nash, has a
very poor plus/minus, but his team has also not played well at all thus far this
season, which will contribute to his individual play, so that must come into
play when 'judging' him, because if he is a very responsible two way player, but
is playing with players who are not, or just can't get it done, then he will look worse than he really is, another eg. he is always chosen to
play on the olympic team, and is one of the best players there.

one must know the players, so, when the coaching staff is going over the stat sheet
for the league, they know the players, and can think about that when reading stats.

if one doesn't know players, then ones view of any stat will be inaccurate
overall., and cause opinions about players from 'only' the stat.
 
Last edited:

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
if they wanted to do 'spin off' plus/minus stats, then one could think up things like
that, but the main stat is 5 on 5, and keeps all players equal on the ice, not shorthanded,
or anything that would throw the balance 'off'.
the point is, all players were playing with the same amount of players for the
stat to be compiled, which gives them a 'pure' stat.



it still throws the stat out of whack, and its not about who cares, its about
accuracy of the stat.

The problem I have is a player could be a plus, simply because he was on the ice...............didn't even touch the puck, but could still have cost his team 80 goals by being in the penalty box every game and costing his team a goal each time.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
The problem I have is a player could be a plus, simply because he was on the ice...............didn't even touch the puck, but could still have cost his team 80 goals by being in the penalty box every game and costing his team a goal each time.

that is why one should know the players, when checking the stat./

and it doesn't matter what any of us think of other stuff 'around' the stat, it ramains
fair and pure that the stat be compiled from situations where all players are being
figured into it evenly , not when, at times, it was 4 on 3, or 5 on 4, that would
make that stat unfair and inaccurate.

it is only a stat, gives an accurate summary of a particular part of the game, and
definitely shows strengths and weaknesses of a player, or a team.
if a coach keeps seeing one of his players in the minus column, he knows why, without
having to read it, but he can show his player the facts, and every other stat he
wants to as well.
players can't hide from that stat, and neither can teams as a whole.
or any other stat for that matter.

of course anything can come into it, a player could step off the ice after giving
the puck up, and the player who came on the ice for him
could be there when a goal is scored that came from that giveaway, and it would
affect 'his' plus/minus.

it is only a stat, not the total picture, but definitely has a story to tell,
an important story.

penalty minutes are a stat of their own, but part of the total picture. The coaches
know who hurt their team because of penalties, and they can show that stat as
well, it is totally different than plus/minus.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
What a load of useless Bee Ess statistics are!

I enjoy going thru the stats for teams as well as players, I like to follow
the route they take, and they do tell a story.

but I will repeat, if one doesn't know the teams and players, stats won't tell
them the whole story.

they are a value to coaches and managers for sure, and not b.s., they are facts,
that some players would rather not see, as they expose them, and show their
weaknesses.

good eg. the line of bobby ryan, ryan getzlaf, and cory perry, 3 very talented
players, who play together,who's stats are telling us that they are lazy this season, and don't
work very hard at all, and it is very visible in the game.
the team isn't doing well, and they are a big part of 'why'.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
What a load of useless Bee Ess statistics are!

That is a little extreme, # of goals and assists are an indication of the quality of play. Of course there are other factors that contribute to the success of a team that can't be measured in numbers (Iike being in the right place at the time ready to do the right thing) but it's all part of the picture. But you are right in that a guy scoring 50 goals isn't necessarily a better player than the one who scores 49! :smile:
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
About 30% of all goals are scored on the powerplay. Probably another 5% empty net, and another 3-5% right after a PP when the 5th guy hasn't got back in time. About 40%+ of all scoring is the result of odd-man play.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
About 30% of all goals are scored on the powerplay. Probably another 5% empty net, and another 3-5% right after a PP when the 5th guy hasn't got back in time. About 40%+ of all scoring is the result of odd-man play.

Yep :smile: