Turkey in warning to Israel: You have one day to apologize for Gaza flotilla raid
- Thread starter AbtFet
- Start date
No, you've got that a little backwards. What it is is a new thread for you to troll eao and abtfet. Having a real problem with that honesty think I see.
The wikipedia sequence of events now include the findings of the UNHCR
Gaza flotilla raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to the report, the Israelis had already used lethal force and a number of Mavi Marmara activists had already been killed and injured by the time they over powered the IDF commandos descending down the helicopter.
Gaza flotilla raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to the report, the Israelis had already used lethal force and a number of Mavi Marmara activists had already been killed and injured by the time they over powered the IDF commandos descending down the helicopter.
Awesome, proving once again, a source of information, easily edited by anybody with an agenda, is a completely useless source.
Ya, that's what happens when you believe anecdotal stories from people with an agenda, and ignore video and testimony from anyone that says otherwise.
Wiki when it comes down to it is not credible even though many use it - Why - Anyone can alter data. So find something credible and while your doing that pick up some for yourself. Matter of fact try and load up on it.
\
Guess this is one that ain;t going to far eh.
BBC News - Turkey suspends Israel defence ties over Gaza aid raid
Based in The Hague, the ICJ is a permanent UN court set up to rule on state-to-state disputes.
In reality, experts say it is unlikely Turkey will be able to take Israel to the ICJ since, under court rules, Israel would need to give its consent for the action to be heard.
Go ahead and try to edit that story. Write it according to your beliefs without supporting evidence or a reference and see what happens. Give it a try.
all I wrote was that wikipedia now includes the sequence of events as determined by the UNHCR. You can follow the links to the UNHCR report.
Here is the report.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf
all I wrote was that wikipedia now includes the sequence of events as determined by the UNHCR. You can follow the links to the UNHCR report.
Here is the report.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/15session/A.HRC.15.21_en.pdf
You do it - Wiki has frozen access time and again due to people playing with facts on a topic - You should be aware of that but then again are you even aware is another topic and open to interpretation - People play with Wiki altering facts, much like yourself.
CAMERA did just that.
We all know what happened.
People like you cried, made a big stink and went on a silly witch hunt.
The UNHRC report isn't fact, it's conjecture. To use your standard, when Palestinians and not Israel is involved. Until it sees a court, it's simply a conglomeration of anecdotal testimony.
That's all you wrote?
Really? Your memory is that short? Or do you think more unethical behavior and lies will help you demonize Israel a little more?
Just more demonization.
At least you left out the usual emotionally charged words like 'killers' and 'in cold blood'.
111. The crew and passengers of the six vessels became visually aware of the presence of
Israeli naval vessels some time after the initial communications, between 2300 hours and
midnight, both through sightings and two-way radio communication between the vessels.
The larger Israeli ships and helicopters came into view of the crew of the vessels at
approximately 0100 hours on 31 May. Similar sightings were made by other vessels in the
flotilla at around the same time.
(b) Events on board the M.V. Mavi Marmara67
(i) Initial attempt to board the Mavi Marmara from the sea
112. Israeli zodiac boats made a first attempt to board the Mavi Marmara from the sea
shortly before 0430 hours. Several zodiac boats approached the ship at the stern from both
the port and starboard sides. The approach was accompanied by the firing of non-lethal
weaponry onto the ship, including smoke and stun grenades, tear-gas and paintballs. Plastic
bullets may also have been used at this stage: however, despite some claims that live
ammunition was also fired from the zodiac boats, the Mission is not satisfied that this was
the case. The smoke and tear gas were not effective due to the strong sea breeze and later
due to the downdraft from helicopters.
113. The Israeli forces attempted to board the ship through attaching ladders to the hull.
Passengers engaged in efforts to repel the attempted boarding using the ship’s water hoses68
and the throwing of various items at the boats including chairs, sticks, a box of plates and
other objects that were readily to hand. This initial attempt to board the ship proved
unsuccessful. It is the view of the Mission that the Israeli forces should have re-evaluated
their plans when it became obvious that putting their soldiers on board the ship may lead to
civilian casualties.
(ii) Landing of soldiers from helicopters onto the Mavi Marmara
114. Just minutes after soldiers from the zodiac boats had made initial unsuccessful
attempts to board, the first helicopter approached the ship at approximately 0430 hours,
hovering above the top deck. At this point between 10 and 20 passengers were located in
the central area of the top deck, although this number increased as other passengers learned
of events on the top deck. The Israeli forces used smoke and stun grenades in an attempt to
clear an area for the landing of soldiers. The first rope that was let down from the helicopter
was taken by passengers and tied it to a part of the top deck and thereby rendered
ineffective for the purpose of soldiers’ descent. A second rope was then let down from the
helicopter and the first group of soldiers descended. The Mission does not find it plausible
that soldiers were holding their weapons and firing as they descended on the rope.
However, it has concluded that live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top
deck prior to the descent of the soldiers.
115. With the available evidence it is difficult to delineate the exact course of events on
the top deck between the time of the first soldier descending and the Israeli forces securing
control of the deck. A fight ensued between passengers and the first soldiers to descend
onto the top deck that resulted in at least two soldiers being pushed down onto the bridge
deck below, where they were involved in struggles with groups of passengers who
attempted to take their weapons. The equipment jacket of at least one soldier was removed
as he was pushed over the side of the deck. A number of weapons were taken from the
soldiers by passengers and thrown into the sea: one weapon, a 9-mm pistol, was unloaded
by a passenger, a former U.S. Marine, in front of witnesses and then hidden in another part
of the ship in an attempt to retain evidence.
116. A number of the passengers on the top deck fought with the soldiers using their fists,
sticks, metal rods and knives.69 At least one of the soldiers was stabbed with a knife or other
sharp object. Witnesses informed the Mission that their objective was to subdue and disarm
the soldiers so that they could not harm anyone. The Mission is satisfied on the evidence
that at least two passengers on the bridge deck also used handheld catapults to propel small
projectiles at the helicopters. The Mission has found no evidence to suggest that any of the
passengers used firearms or that any firearms were taken on board the ship. Despite
requests, the Mission has not received any medical records or other substantiated
information from the Israeli authorities regarding any firearm injuries sustained by soldiers
participating in the raid. Doctors examined the three soldiers taken below decks and no
firearm injuries were noted. Further, the Mission finds that the Israeli accounts so
inconsistent and contradictory with regard to evidence of alleged firearms injuries to Israeli
soldiers that it has to reject it.70
Israeli naval vessels some time after the initial communications, between 2300 hours and
midnight, both through sightings and two-way radio communication between the vessels.
The larger Israeli ships and helicopters came into view of the crew of the vessels at
approximately 0100 hours on 31 May. Similar sightings were made by other vessels in the
flotilla at around the same time.
(b) Events on board the M.V. Mavi Marmara67
(i) Initial attempt to board the Mavi Marmara from the sea
112. Israeli zodiac boats made a first attempt to board the Mavi Marmara from the sea
shortly before 0430 hours. Several zodiac boats approached the ship at the stern from both
the port and starboard sides. The approach was accompanied by the firing of non-lethal
weaponry onto the ship, including smoke and stun grenades, tear-gas and paintballs. Plastic
bullets may also have been used at this stage: however, despite some claims that live
ammunition was also fired from the zodiac boats, the Mission is not satisfied that this was
the case. The smoke and tear gas were not effective due to the strong sea breeze and later
due to the downdraft from helicopters.
113. The Israeli forces attempted to board the ship through attaching ladders to the hull.
Passengers engaged in efforts to repel the attempted boarding using the ship’s water hoses68
and the throwing of various items at the boats including chairs, sticks, a box of plates and
other objects that were readily to hand. This initial attempt to board the ship proved
unsuccessful. It is the view of the Mission that the Israeli forces should have re-evaluated
their plans when it became obvious that putting their soldiers on board the ship may lead to
civilian casualties.
(ii) Landing of soldiers from helicopters onto the Mavi Marmara
114. Just minutes after soldiers from the zodiac boats had made initial unsuccessful
attempts to board, the first helicopter approached the ship at approximately 0430 hours,
hovering above the top deck. At this point between 10 and 20 passengers were located in
the central area of the top deck, although this number increased as other passengers learned
of events on the top deck. The Israeli forces used smoke and stun grenades in an attempt to
clear an area for the landing of soldiers. The first rope that was let down from the helicopter
was taken by passengers and tied it to a part of the top deck and thereby rendered
ineffective for the purpose of soldiers’ descent. A second rope was then let down from the
helicopter and the first group of soldiers descended. The Mission does not find it plausible
that soldiers were holding their weapons and firing as they descended on the rope.
However, it has concluded that live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top
deck prior to the descent of the soldiers.
115. With the available evidence it is difficult to delineate the exact course of events on
the top deck between the time of the first soldier descending and the Israeli forces securing
control of the deck. A fight ensued between passengers and the first soldiers to descend
onto the top deck that resulted in at least two soldiers being pushed down onto the bridge
deck below, where they were involved in struggles with groups of passengers who
attempted to take their weapons. The equipment jacket of at least one soldier was removed
as he was pushed over the side of the deck. A number of weapons were taken from the
soldiers by passengers and thrown into the sea: one weapon, a 9-mm pistol, was unloaded
by a passenger, a former U.S. Marine, in front of witnesses and then hidden in another part
of the ship in an attempt to retain evidence.
116. A number of the passengers on the top deck fought with the soldiers using their fists,
sticks, metal rods and knives.69 At least one of the soldiers was stabbed with a knife or other
sharp object. Witnesses informed the Mission that their objective was to subdue and disarm
the soldiers so that they could not harm anyone. The Mission is satisfied on the evidence
that at least two passengers on the bridge deck also used handheld catapults to propel small
projectiles at the helicopters. The Mission has found no evidence to suggest that any of the
passengers used firearms or that any firearms were taken on board the ship. Despite
requests, the Mission has not received any medical records or other substantiated
information from the Israeli authorities regarding any firearm injuries sustained by soldiers
participating in the raid. Doctors examined the three soldiers taken below decks and no
firearm injuries were noted. Further, the Mission finds that the Israeli accounts so
inconsistent and contradictory with regard to evidence of alleged firearms injuries to Israeli
soldiers that it has to reject it.70
On the other hand, it is the view of anyone with a lick of common sense that this was going to lead to an ass whuppin by the IDF.
Cheery picking again- What was the result of the report - Blockade Legal - Excessive force - Report say yes - But next time the Isrealis will not go in with paint ball guns - Losts of ways to clear a deck of a ship.
İbrahim Bilgen
İbrahim Bilgen, a 60-year-old Turkish citizen, from Siirt in Turkey, was on the top deck
and was one of the first passengers to be shot. He received a bullet wound to the chest, the
trajectory of which was from above and not at close range. He had a further two bullet
wounds to the right side of the back and right buttock, both back to front. These wounds
would not have caused instant death, but he would have bled to death within a short time
without medical attention. Forensic evidence shows that he was shot in the side of the head
with a soft baton round at such close proximity and that an entire bean bag and its wadding
penetrated the skull and lodged in the brain. He had a further bruise on the right flank
consistent with another beanbag wound. The wounds are consistent with the deceased
initially being shot from soldiers on board the helicopter above and receiving a further
wound to the head while lying on the ground, already wounded.
İbrahim Bilgen, a 60-year-old Turkish citizen, from Siirt in Turkey, was on the top deck
and was one of the first passengers to be shot. He received a bullet wound to the chest, the
trajectory of which was from above and not at close range. He had a further two bullet
wounds to the right side of the back and right buttock, both back to front. These wounds
would not have caused instant death, but he would have bled to death within a short time
without medical attention. Forensic evidence shows that he was shot in the side of the head
with a soft baton round at such close proximity and that an entire bean bag and its wadding
penetrated the skull and lodged in the brain. He had a further bruise on the right flank
consistent with another beanbag wound. The wounds are consistent with the deceased
initially being shot from soldiers on board the helicopter above and receiving a further
wound to the head while lying on the ground, already wounded.
A fair statement...
That was preceded by...
So it's difficult to delineate the exact course of events, but they were able to come to a conclusion that live fire was used?
This is where people that use critical thought start thinking something other then a search for the truth is at foot.
Which is why you think it's the smoking gun.
And I'll let you in on a little secret EAO. Even if I conceded that live rounds were fired from the helo. You do realize at that point, by the reports own time line and reporting of events, they were justified right?
Furkan Doğan
Furkan Doğan, a 19-year-old with dual Turkish and United States citizenship, was on the
central area of the top deck filming with a small video camera when he was first hit with
live fire. It appears that he was lying on the deck in a conscious, or semi-conscious, state
for some time. In total Furkan received five bullet wounds, to the face, head, back thorax,
left leg and foot. All of the entry wounds were on the back of his body, except for the face
wound which entered to the right of his nose. According to forensic analysis, tattooing
around the wound in his face indicates that the shot was delivered at point blank range.
Furthermore, the trajectory of the wound, from bottom to top, together with a vital abrasion
to the left shoulder that could be consistent with the bullet exit point, is compatible with the
shot being received while he was lying on the ground on his back. The other wounds were
not the result of firing in contact, near contact or close range, but it is not otherwise possible
to determine the exact firing range. The wounds to the leg and foot were most likely
received in a standing position.
Furkan Doğan, a 19-year-old with dual Turkish and United States citizenship, was on the
central area of the top deck filming with a small video camera when he was first hit with
live fire. It appears that he was lying on the deck in a conscious, or semi-conscious, state
for some time. In total Furkan received five bullet wounds, to the face, head, back thorax,
left leg and foot. All of the entry wounds were on the back of his body, except for the face
wound which entered to the right of his nose. According to forensic analysis, tattooing
around the wound in his face indicates that the shot was delivered at point blank range.
Furthermore, the trajectory of the wound, from bottom to top, together with a vital abrasion
to the left shoulder that could be consistent with the bullet exit point, is compatible with the
shot being received while he was lying on the ground on his back. The other wounds were
not the result of firing in contact, near contact or close range, but it is not otherwise possible
to determine the exact firing range. The wounds to the leg and foot were most likely
received in a standing position.
And that proves what?
What did I tell you the over all opinion of spam generating Jew haters was around here?
If you have something to say, say it.
Enough with the spam already.
Cevdet Kiliçlar
Cevdet Kiliçlar, a 38-year-old Turkish citizen from Istanbul, was on the Mavi Marmara, in
his capacity as a photographer employed by IHH. At the moment he was shot he was
standing on the bridge deck on the port side of the ship near to the door leading to the main
stairwell and was attempting to photograph Israeli soldiers on the top deck. According to
the pathology reports, he received a single bullet to his forehead between the eyes. The
bullet followed a horizontal trajectory which crossed the middle of the brain from front to
back. He would have died instantly.
Cengiz Akyüz and Cengiz Songür
Cengiz Akyüz, 41, from Hatay and Cengiz Songür, 46, from Izmir, both Turkish citizens,
were injured on the bridge deck in close succession by live fire from above. They had been
sheltering and were shot as they attempted to move inside the door leading to the stairwell.
Cengiz Akyüz received a shot to the head and it is probable that he died instantly.
The pathology report shows four wounds: to the neck, face, chest and thigh. Cengiz Songür
received a single bullet to the upper central thorax below the neck, shot from a high angle,
which lodged in the right thoracic cavity injuring the heart and aorta. Unsuccessful efforts
were made by doctors inside the ship to resuscitate him through heart massage.
Çetin Topçuoğlu
Çetin Topçuoğlu, a 54-year-old Turkish citizen from Adana had been involved in helping to
bring injured passengers inside the ship to be treated. He was also shot close to the door on
the bridge deck. He did not die instantly and his wife, who was also on board the ship, was
with him when he died. He was shot by three bullets. One bullet entered from the top the
soft tissues of the right side of the back of the head, exited from the neck and then reentered
into the thorax. Another bullet entered the left buttock and lodged in the right
pelvis. The third entered the right groin and exited from the lower back. There are
indications that the victim may have been in a crouching or bending position when this
wound was sustained.
Cevdet Kiliçlar, a 38-year-old Turkish citizen from Istanbul, was on the Mavi Marmara, in
his capacity as a photographer employed by IHH. At the moment he was shot he was
standing on the bridge deck on the port side of the ship near to the door leading to the main
stairwell and was attempting to photograph Israeli soldiers on the top deck. According to
the pathology reports, he received a single bullet to his forehead between the eyes. The
bullet followed a horizontal trajectory which crossed the middle of the brain from front to
back. He would have died instantly.
Cengiz Akyüz and Cengiz Songür
Cengiz Akyüz, 41, from Hatay and Cengiz Songür, 46, from Izmir, both Turkish citizens,
were injured on the bridge deck in close succession by live fire from above. They had been
sheltering and were shot as they attempted to move inside the door leading to the stairwell.
Cengiz Akyüz received a shot to the head and it is probable that he died instantly.
The pathology report shows four wounds: to the neck, face, chest and thigh. Cengiz Songür
received a single bullet to the upper central thorax below the neck, shot from a high angle,
which lodged in the right thoracic cavity injuring the heart and aorta. Unsuccessful efforts
were made by doctors inside the ship to resuscitate him through heart massage.
Çetin Topçuoğlu
Çetin Topçuoğlu, a 54-year-old Turkish citizen from Adana had been involved in helping to
bring injured passengers inside the ship to be treated. He was also shot close to the door on
the bridge deck. He did not die instantly and his wife, who was also on board the ship, was
with him when he died. He was shot by three bullets. One bullet entered from the top the
soft tissues of the right side of the back of the head, exited from the neck and then reentered
into the thorax. Another bullet entered the left buttock and lodged in the right
pelvis. The third entered the right groin and exited from the lower back. There are
indications that the victim may have been in a crouching or bending position when this
wound was sustained.
Do you agree that the Islamist Turkish Govt funded the IHH to purchase a ship.
Bump - Bump c-Question to difficult??
So you Uncle told you your mother was Jewish - The uncle - Mother or fathers side.