Prosecuting Freedon of Speech

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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:roll: Weak dude.

What's weak is how the two entrenched sides use ethics and freedom of speech to blanket over real issues. It's lazy.

You keep bringing up ethics.

Yes, that is what your OP quoted. Just sticking to the facts at hand. Some people made complaints about the ethics, they mentioned how the interview was conducted. That's clear in the quote in your OP.

What was unethical about the interview?

I don't know if it was unethical. That's the second time I've had to say this...it could have been. Time will tell.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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What's weak is how the two entrenched sides use ethics and freedom of speech to blanket over real issues. It's lazy.
What 'real' issue? I take issue with people that try and focus a concerted effort on a single entity, to shut them down over opinion alone.

I would actually feel the same if this was being levied at the CBC.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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hmmm....

I think you are trying to frame the debate on your own terms here....

As I already said to Bear, there are those who are trying to shut down Sun News, and as I already agreed with you, I think it's good to have them there. I don't agree with a lot of their commentary, but I think they are necessary.

I think they may have a point about how the interview was conducted, but I don't think they have a leg to stand on with respect to removing Sun News Network from cable offerings.

I'm asking you specifically about the code of ethics. The complaint mentioned could in fact be true, while their complaint over Sun News being on the airwaves is not.

In which case, there is no suppression of speech at all, and it's merely a slap on the wrist for a breach of the code of conduct.
 

CDNBear

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The complaint mentioned could in fact be true...
How so. I watched the whole interview. Erickson was harsh, at times rude. But she did also mention Gillis' achievements.

She just questioned Gillis' ungrateful whining, and funding off the backs of tax payers.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Relisten to the video. Even he says it's a judgement of content not an attack on freedom of expression.

Lilley : "pull the station off the air for the contents of that interview"
 

CDNBear

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Relisten to the video. Even he says it's a judgement of content not an attack on freedom of expression.

Lilley : "pull the station off the air for the contents of that interview"
And you think this somehow supports your continued use of that statement how?

Freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, are synonymous.
 

petros

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I'm not the one flip flopping beteween saying we have freedom of speech then saying it's freedom of expression and then saying they are being judged on content.

This guy is real wordsmith.
 

CDNBear

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I'm not the one flip flopping beteween saying we have freedom of speech then saying it's freedom of expression and then saying they are being judged on content.

This guy is real wordsmith.
I bet he is, but not for what you just read into it.

But thanks for the laugh anyways.

You realise that the Charter and the use of the term "Freedom of expression" is actually less limiting than just "freedom of speech" don't you?
 

petros

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There are two issues at hand being muddled. The corporate rights of SUN under the SBSC and the Charter rights of the interviewer and the Charter rights of the person being interviewed.
 

SLM

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So, the intrepretive dancer is trying to rally her supporters to censure the network that she voluntarily gave an interview to? Am I understanding that correctly? I mean, they did not surprise her in the street TMZ style or anything, she willfully decided to participate.

Sounds like self-righteousness to me. I don't like it, not at all.

If I don't happen to like or agree with something Sun TV, or any network for that matter, is saying I have a special trick that I use. It's called changing the channel. It's actually much less work than revoking a broadcast license, I can do it from the comfort of my sofa.

I'd say this is more akin to persecution than prosecution.
 

petros

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That's three issues.
CBSC and Charter...TWO!

One of the most important questions to be litigated was what was protected as "expression". In Irwin Toy ltd. v. Quebec (Attorney general), [1989] 1 S.C.R. 927, the Supreme Court ruled that anything that "conveyed meaning" was expression. This meant virtually any way that someone chose to express themselves, whether through words, acts, or depictions. Anything that conveyed meaning and was not in "an unacceptable form" (i.e., violence or threats of violence), was protected by the Charter.

The second question the Supreme Court answered in Irwin Toy was what constituted a violation of the right to free expression. If the purpose of the government restriction on expression was to restrict certain content, then that restriction violates the Charter. This includes restricting certain methods of conveying meaning that are tied to the content itself (e.g., instead of banning rock music--the content--, banning FM radio-- the method of conveying the music).

If the purpose of the limit is not to restrict content but to prevent certain harmful effects from the way the content is physically expressed, then the court must examine the effects of the restriction. If the restriction has the effect of frustrating "the pursuit of truth, participation in the community, or individual self-fulfillment and human flourishing", then the restriction violates the Charter. The burden of proof is then on the government to show that the restriction is reasonable under the Oakes test. If it is not reasonable, then the restriction on expression is unconstitutional.
 

CDNBear

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Sounds like self-righteousness to me. I don't like it, not at all.
Neither does Erickson, hence her ire.

CBSC and Charter...TWO!
Three. If only Gillis had a Charter issue, just because you envoked the Charter twice, doesn't make it one issue. But you are accidentally right, two. As Gillis doesn't have a Charter issue in this case.

One of the most important questions to be litigated was what was protected as "expression". In Irwin Toy ltd. v. Quebec (Attorney general), [1989] 1 S.C.R. 927, the Supreme Court ruled that anything that "conveyed meaning" was expression. This meant virtually any way that someone chose to express themselves, whether through words, acts, or depictions. Anything that conveyed meaning and was not in "an unacceptable form" (i.e., violence or threats of violence), was protected by the Charter.

The second question the Supreme Court answered in Irwin Toy was what constituted a violation of the right to free expression. If the purpose of the government restriction on expression was to restrict certain content, then that restriction violates the Charter. This includes restricting certain methods of conveying meaning that are tied to the content itself (e.g., instead of banning rock music--the content--, banning FM radio-- the method of conveying the music).

If the purpose of the limit is not to restrict content but to prevent certain harmful effects from the way the content is physically expressed, then the court must examine the effects of the restriction. If the restriction has the effect of frustrating "the pursuit of truth, participation in the community, or individual self-fulfillment and human flourishing", then the restriction violates the Charter. The burden of proof is then on the government to show that the restriction is reasonable under the Oakes test. If it is not reasonable, then the restriction on expression is unconstitutional.
And you think this somehow pertains to your erroneous claims how?
 

petros

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So how is it an attack on freedom of expression if she is opposing through a code of ethics complaint?

What is really ****ed is to say ethics are a left/right issue.

I never knew morals were determined by who you vote for.
 

CDNBear

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So how is it an attack on freedom of expression if she is opposing through a code of ethics complaint?
Because she isn't asking for a sanction, or reprimand, she's asking, along with her supporters, to shut down SunTV.

Not to mention her complaint is frivolous, based on her hurt feelings, as apposed to any real misconduct or unethical behaviour.

Thankfully she has the right to trample the very right she's using to trample the rights of others, lol. But that's the problem with the "activist-compliance cycle".

What is really ****ed is to say ethics are a left/right issue.
I agree. maybe you can point out where that came into the conversation, before this post.

I never knew morals were determined by who you vote for.
Neither did I, maybe you could point out where I said that.

Or are you back to putting words in my mouth?

Boy, we sure have moved a long way away from your continued use of...

We don't have freedom of speech. We have freedom of expression but be prepared to judged on the content.

As if it meant something.
 

petros

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Because she isn't asking for a sanction, or reprimand, she's asking, along
with her supporters, to shut down SunTV.
You can ask Santa Claus for anything you want but you might not like what you end up getting.

I agree. maybe you can point out where that came into the conversation,
before this post.
SUN
Neither did I, maybe you could point out where I said that.

Or are you
back to putting words in my mouth?

Boy, we sure have moved a long way
away from your continued use of...
Again SUN as linked to in this thread.

On Friday, Sun News stated its position to the broadcaster censor regarding a
historic number of complaints received over Sun News' Krista Erickson's
television interview with Canadian dancer Margie Gillis who, until this tempest
by the left, was likely unknown to most Canadians.
If these pricks think my morals are political, they are ****ed in the head. They are yanking your chain too ya know.