Mercury puzzles astronomers

[Dexter Sinister]

I mean they tell you Venus moves in this way, and Mercury moves in this way; but before blindly believing them, ask yourself, what makes these two planets (in particular) move in this bizarr way .

Belief has nothing to do with it, it's a matter of direct observation, that's how they're seen to move. It's explained at the links YukonJack gave you, and at other links I and others have given you in the past, but I've given up trying to explain anything science-related to you. If it's not consistent with your reading of the Quran and Al-Hilly's ignorant and foolish interpretation of it, you just reject it.

On the matter of witnesses, you missed the point entirely, which was that the Quran claims female witnesses are less reliable than male witnesses, and explicitly equates one man to two women in that context.

 

[cranky]

Is it possible to "postulated many postulations"? And if you take that literally, of what use would that be?

 

[eanassir]

Belief has nothing to do with it, it's a matter of direct observation, that's how they're seen to move. It's explained at the links YukonJack gave you, and at other links I and others have given you in the past, but I've given up trying to explain anything science-related to you. If it's not consistent with your reading of the Quran and Al-Hilly's ignorant and foolish interpretation of it, you just reject it.

On the matter of witnesses, you missed the point entirely, which was that the Quran claims female witnesses are less reliable than male witnesses, and explicitly equates one man to two women in that context.

At the start I thought you are truly scientific in your thinking, but more and more I am convinced you are not: because you evade the true answer, and insist on many things that were explained before.

When I asked him: why are these two planets strange in their movement: this only to bring the attention and stir doubt about the observation and how they explain it.
One should ask himself: All the planets move smoothly and ordinarily excepting these two planets: why is that?
Their explanation for the observation is not correct: The more correct is the planet Mercury and Venus stopped their axial rotation --> therefore they observed them moving in such abnormal way.

While about the witnesses: I said to him: you did not bring the 4 required witnesses, and you came to help him by saying: the witness of one man equals the witness of two females, which is another subject.
Then I asked you 1 male+2 females witnesses = 3
But I said: 4 witnesses, how is that?

And again you evaded to solve the problem and insisted again on the male = 2 females in witness. Because you don't know the answer (inspite of that you said you studied the Quran thoroughly as I remember, and that you -after that concluded the Quran is bad and defective according to your thiniking.)

 

[Tonington]

One should ask himself: All the planets move smoothly and ordinarily excepting these two planets: why is that?

That's just not true. If you suppose there is an ordinary movement, what would that be? There are huge variations in the orbits amongst the planets in our solar system, and if we broadened that to include other solar systems, we would probably find even more variation from whatever norm you could suppose exists from our small sample of planets. Stranger still if you include the satellites orbiting planets.

You can't lecture anyone about unscientific attitudes when you are making inferences based on a religious text, rather than on the observations and data that are widely available. You are not using any method which conforms to the rigors of scientific discipline.

 

[YukonJack]

eanassir, here is another article for you, which you could have found youself, with due diligence:

Rotation Period and Day Length

 

[eanassir]

That's just not true. If you suppose there is an ordinary movement, what would that be? There are huge variations in the orbits amongst the planets in our solar system, and if we broadened that to include other solar systems, we would probably find even more variation from whatever norm you could suppose exists from our small sample of planets. Stranger still if you include the satellites orbiting planets.

You can't lecture anyone about unscientific attitudes when you are making inferences based on a religious text, rather than on the observations and data that are widely available. You are not using any method which conforms to the rigors of scientific discipline.

Suppose we are at some 700 years ago, and people in Europe believed the earth is flat, not spherical. Then I come and tell them: no, the earth is spherical in shape; they will say: This is not scientific, that scientist says the earth is flat, while you say the earth is spherical; it can't be you are right and that famous scientist is wrong!

So this is my situation with you now.
I tell you: such strange movement indicates Mercury and Venus have stopped their axial rotation, but you do not believe me, and refer to some links of some contemporary scientists who are liable to error and you say: it can't be you are right and such scientists are wrong!

I tell you the late interpreter said this due to revelation and inspiration, so go and check this and verify it; while you say: this is not scientific: we cannot accept this: I say: Check this scientifically without referring to some available informations that are changeable.

It is revealed to him like this, and he was acquainted about this, while scientists and astronomers have not reached to such level of knowledge inspite of their equipment and capabilities.

(Some may laugh, but I tell you: his knowledge is 25 folds more their knowledge all together -- It is narrated that the interpreter of the Quran will have 25 folds of knowledge than all of them altogether.)

Mercury to the Sun, and Venus to the Sun are now like our Moon in relation to Earth.
It always keeps the same face towards the Earth, while the other side is invisible, and we said: the Moon does not rotate around itself, while they say: no, the Moon rotates in the same time as it circles around the Earth, and I said: I shall not wrangle with you anymore about this, but ok say then that Moon shows the same face to the Earth, and similarly Mercury and Venus show the same face to the Sun as they keep circling around the Sun.

The Universe and the Quran​

 

[Tonington]

Suppose we are at some 700 years ago, and people in Europe believed the earth is flat, not spherical. Then I come and tell them: no, the earth is spherical in shape; they will say: This is not scientific, that scientist says the earth is flat, while you say the earth is spherical; it can't be you are right and that famous scientist is wrong!

So this is my situation with you now.

No, this is not the same situation at all. We have observations which refute the nonsense things you are claiming. Claims I might add that have more in common with the inferences which lead early philosophers to suppose the Earth is flat.

Comparing the scientific methods of today with that of 700 years ago only highlights your disconnect with reality.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

At the start I thought you are truly scientific in your thinking...

You don't even know what that means, and you certainly won't be doing any of it yourself as long as you take the Quran and Al-Hilly's dumb interpretation of it as science books. The argument from authority doesn't work, it's a fallacy, and it's all you ever offer, on any subject. Divine revelation is not the way to do science.

 

[eanassir]

Both of you are disbelievers and say words according to what you think. And you will not be moved whatever I explain and detail. And this will only cause more and more loss to you.

(He it is Who has made you successors [of the ancient] in the land [of Mecca];

then whoso disbelieves, [the sin of] his disbelief will be against him.

With their Lord, the disbelief of disbelievers will only increase them in wrath;

the disbelief of disbelievers will only cause more loss to them.)


The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 35: 39
هُوَ الَّذِي جَعَلَكُمْ خَلَائِفَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَمَن كَفَرَ فَعَلَيْهِ كُفْرُهُ وَلَا يَزِيدُ الْكَافِرِينَ كُفْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ إِلَّا مَقْتًا وَلَا يَزِيدُ الْكَافِرِينَ كُفْرُهُمْ إِلَّا خَسَارًا

I shall here summarize all what you said:
>> the Quran is a book of 1400 years ago --> which is not any scientific statement: the truth is the truth; moreover, the interpretation is recent.
>> the fallcy of authority --> And I told you the Quran bears its arguments, and I only display the argument of the Quran.
>> the science --> the science is changeable, and the science has to investigate things not to refuse rigidly every new idea.

In fact these are your main arguments : in addition to the "Arab in the desert", and your well known "non-sense".

 

[YukonJack]

I am not going to waste time, effort and bandwidth by quoting post #69.

Yes, both of the people you attempt to dismiss are 'disbelievers' by your standards, but then most sane people in the world are. And they, indeed say words according to the way they THINK (note the word THINK) unlike you who parrot nonsense dictated by a terrorist and illiterate pedophile.

Do yourself a favour and study some books. So far, it is obvious that you ever only ONE book, but sadly even that ONE you don't understand and habitually misinterpret.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... you will not be moved whatever I explain and detail.

That's because the evidence says you're wrong. Every scientific claim I've ever seen you make here is provably wrong, you've been given the proofs by many of us, and you simply deny them based on the presumed authority of your religious texts and a deeply ignorant man's interpretation of them as science. You haven't the slightest understanding of what modern science is and how it works, and you never will as long as you believe the authority of the Quran trumps observation, experiment, evidence and reason. That's by definition the argument from authority fallacy. It makes trying to explain anything to you a very tedious and ultimately futile exercise. You can't even grasp a simple point I made about the Quran's view of the relative merits of male and female witnesses, you keep thinking it has something to do with whether there are 2, 3, or 4 witnesses, so I gave up on that too.

 

[Omicron]

OK, so I am idiot, and you are the intelligent.
Only I ask you why only these two planets move with such strange and abnormal way of rotation?
While Earth and the rest of the planets rotates in the usual way.

I know how to answer your question but I don't know where to begin, because I'm afraid you won't get it.

I can answer it, but I'm not going to until Islam gets back together the school like they had in Baghdad sometime around the 6th to 8th century. I apologize if I got the exact dates wrong. You guys so had it together then, and then selfish-minded little rat-brained politics destroyed it.

If we of the west offer to help you reconstruct the most perfect library in the world, will you stop the attacks?

 

[eanassir]

You can't even grasp a simple point I made about the Quran's view of the relative merits of male and female witnesses, you keep thinking it has something to do with whether there are 2, 3, or 4 witnesses, so I gave up on that too.

The witnesses according to the Quran

First: (O believers, when you contract a debt for a stated term, write it down, and let a writer write it down between you justly;let not the writer refuse to write as has God taught him; so let him write, and let the debtor dictate, and let him ward off [the punishment of] God his Lord and do not diminish anything of it.
And if the debtor be a fool, or weak, or unable to dictate himself, then let his 'nearest relative' dictate justly.
And call in to witness two witnesses, out of your men; or if the two be not men,then one man and two women, such witnesses as you approve of; that if one of the two women errs, the other will 'remind and admonish' her; and the witness should not refuse [to give testimony] when they are summoned [by judge.]
And be not loath to write down the [contract], whether it be small or great, with [recording] its term; that, considered by God, is more equitable, more upright for testimony and most likely that you will not be in doubt.
Unless, indeed, it be a ready-money transaction which you arrange among yourselves, then there is no blame on you in case you write it not.
But take witnesses whenever you have any transaction, and let no harm touch the writer or the witness; but if you do [such harm], it is a sinful conduct [that has been formed] inside you[r souls;because of hypocrisy in your hearts.] Then ward off [the disobedience of] God;God teaches you, and God is All-Knowing about everything.

284. If you [: the debtor and the creditor] are on a journey [on the way before reaching the city] and cannot find a writer[nor witnesss], then a pledge [from the debtor] by hand [may serve the purpose.]
But if one of you trust another, then let him who is trusted deliver his trust [to the family of the owner who sent it], and let him ward off [the punishment of] his Lord God [so he should not betray or covet the trust.]
Never conceal testimony [O witnesses, if you are called to give evidence before the judge;] for whoever conceals it, –– his heart is sinful [due to hypocrisy in his heart], and God – about all that [betrayal of religion and trust, and concealing of the witness or testimony] which you do – is All-Knowing [: so He will punish them accordingly, and will not pardon them.]​

285. To God belong all [the destructive factors] that are in the [gaseous] heavens, and all [the destructive factors]that are in the earth; and if you disclose [the hypocrisy] that is within yourselves or hide it [in your hearts and minds], God [sooner or later will punish you accordingly [ in the life of the World or in the afterlife]; then [after the punishment] He may forgive whomever He will [: who repents and reforms his deeds] and chastise [in the afterlife] whomever He will [: who dies with his hypocrisy]; surely, God is Most Able to do anything [of the punishment.]​

This is the explanation of the Quran 2: 283-285

{يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِذَا تَدَايَنتُم بِدَيْنٍ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى فَاكْتُبُوهُ وَلْيَكْتُب بَّيْنَكُمْ كَاتِبٌ بِالْعَدْلِ وَلاَ يَأْبَ كَاتِبٌ أَنْ يَكْتُبَ كَمَا عَلَّمَهُ اللّهُ فَلْيَكْتُبْ وَلْيُمْلِلِ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْحَقُّ وَلْيَتَّقِ اللّهَ رَبَّهُ وَلاَ يَبْخَسْ مِنْهُ شَيْئًا فَإن كَانَ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِ الْحَقُّ سَفِيهًا أَوْ ضَعِيفًا أَوْ لاَ يَسْتَطِيعُ أَن يُمِلَّ هُوَ فَلْيُمْلِلْ وَلِيُّهُ بِالْعَدْلِ وَاسْتَشْهِدُواْ شَهِيدَيْنِ من رِّجَالِكُمْ فَإِن لَّمْ يَكُونَا رَجُلَيْنِ فَرَجُلٌ وَامْرَأَتَانِ مِمَّن تَرْضَوْنَ مِنَ الشُّهَدَاء أَن تَضِلَّ إْحْدَاهُمَا فَتُذَكِّرَ إِحْدَاهُمَا الأُخْرَى وَلاَ يَأْبَ الشُّهَدَاء إِذَا مَا دُعُواْ وَلاَ تَسْأَمُوْاْ أَن تَكْتُبُوْهُ صَغِيرًا أَو كَبِيرًا إِلَى أَجَلِهِ ذَلِكُمْ أَقْسَطُ عِندَ اللّهِ وَأَقْومُ لِلشَّهَادَةِ وَأَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَرْتَابُواْ إِلاَّ أَن تَكُونَ تِجَارَةً حَاضِرَةً تُدِيرُونَهَا بَيْنَكُمْ فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ أَلاَّ تَكْتُبُوهَا وَأَشْهِدُوْاْ إِذَا تَبَايَعْتُمْ وَلاَ يُضَآرَّ كَاتِبٌ وَلاَ شَهِيدٌ وَإِن تَفْعَلُواْ فَإِنَّهُ فُسُوقٌ بِكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَيُعَلِّمُكُمُ اللّهُ وَاللّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ...إلخ}

The interpretation is according to the late interpreter of the Quran and Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[Omicron]

Jessus mother f-cking Christ eannisar, are you what Allah has to work with?

http://tunes.digitalock.com/mynameisbosephus.mp3 <-- click or the cop will kick me off

What you're supposed to do with the oil is sell it in exchange for knowledge.

With that knowledge you get to build rockets to go up and explore the planets to discover the way they correspond to how your enlightened teacher taught you.


Did it ever occur to you that the west would be happy to trade oil for rockets to blast you into space as astronomers, to explore the planets of the solar system? Do you have any idea how much money it would save if you would just grow food and pomegranates and make carpets and have kids and give them education compared to the overhead of dealing with terrorists hammering yourselves worse than what it is taking us in the court system to haul down Lucifer?

The American term is Astronaut. The Russian term is Cosmonaut. The Chinese term is Taikonaught.

What's the Arab and/or Turkish and/or Iranian term for someone sent into space.

Wait a sec... I got an idea... are you guys living under a situation like where if American gangsters had taken control that would have been the law?

Does that mean we can grant forgiveness to American gangsters if they be the ones to go over there and fix things?

It never worked with troops. We finally got Obama to do it with covert ops, which was obviously always the first choice but it doesn't count, so...

I'll probably have to go to the Pope on this one, but what if we get forgiveness for American gangsters by creation of a new force?

We have the military. We have covert ops. What about gangster takeover and control of a place with the IQ of Afghanistan?

 

[eanassir]

Ha ha ha, Omicron

Your love for money is macro not micro
Do you worship money Omicron? Do you envy people that God gave them oil and rivers and blessings?

So go yourself to the space: there you will find much gold and precious metals, and come back again like Koran with his treasures; although his wealth made him a blasphemer and antagonised Moses the apostle of God.

It is not the gold and silver that make man happy and God be pleased with him: it is the believing in God as One God without associate and to work righteous work --> so he will prosper in the next afterlife, and in this World also he will live under God's protection and God takes care about him.

So if you guide people to God --> God will guide you to Paradise,
while if you antagonise God and misguide people --> God will misguide you and you will not find the way to Paradise.

 

[Angstrom]

The theory of Gravity is flawed. Its actually pressure from space.
Some things can disrupt that pressure, like things that travail in space.
Just like the light that travels in space reflecting off the full moon disrupts
the pressure against the water to make high tides.

 

[eanassir]

I know how to answer your question but I don't know where to begin, because I'm afraid you won't get it.

I can answer it, but I'm not going to until Islam gets back together the school like they had in Baghdad sometime around the 6th to 8th century. I apologize if I got the exact dates wrong. You guys so had it together then, and then selfish-minded little rat-brained politics destroyed it.

If we of the west offer to help you reconstruct the most perfect library in the world, will you stop the attacks?

If you have authority of the West:
let them leave the East be; we don't want their libraries and their bars and dancing places.
Depart from every country in the East, let your fleets leave, let your planes not fly in their skies. Desist from trolling here and there in the oceans and seas and come near the East. Don't do sedition in Libia and other Muslim and Arab countries; don't help our enemies agaisnt us in Palestine. Leave our oil and our treasures; you have your own countries so go to your oil and exploit it. Keep your democracy to yourselves. We don't want your good, better to keep off your evil from us.

 

[lone wolf]

How long will it take to devolve into single-celled thingies?

 

[Omicron]

The theory of Gravity is flawed. Its actually pressure from space.
Some things can disrupt that pressure, like things that travail in space.
Just like the light that travels in space reflecting off the full moon disrupts
the pressure against the water to make high tides.

Oooo been a long time since I met a Velikovsky fan.

If you have authority of the West:
let them leave the East be; we don't want their libraries and their bars and dancing places.
Depart from every country in the East, let your fleets leave, let your planes not fly in their skies. Desist from trolling here and there in the oceans and seas and come near the East. Don't do sedition in Libia and other Muslim and Arab countries; don't help our enemies agaisnt us in Palestine. Leave our oil and our treasures; you have your own countries so go to your oil and exploit it. Keep your democracy to yourselves. We don't want your good, better to keep off your evil from us.

Okay, it will be a deal if you can articulate to me something in detail.

How will your life be?

What will an average day be like?

The kind of day where you smack your third wife down because her dinner was not as good as your second wife's lunch?

 

[eanassir]

Oooo been a long time since I met a Velikovsky fan.



Okay, it will be a deal if you can articulate to me something in detail.

How will your life be?

What will an average day be like?

The kind of day where you smack your third wife down because her dinner was not as good as your second wife's lunch?

Nothing is like what you imagine. You are not obliged to have more than one wife; actually most people now have only one wife; but sometimes the circumstances obliges you to do so; so if your law does not permit, you cannot have more than one wife; while if the law permits, then you can have more than one wife in case the circumstances let you do so; it is lawful, not forbidden, but not obligatory.
And if you have more than one wife (as does the Law of Moses and the Quran permits) then you can have; and in case you have more than one wife, you must be just among your wives: you should treat and deal with them in justice in everything: the provision, the dresses and the bed at night should be distributed justly among them; and if your heart inclines to one of them more than the rest, you should not show that to them.
If you do so, all of them will be happy and will be like friends to each other; but if you are unjust --> then quarells and problems may occur.
Sometimes, man is rich and has a large house and much money, and he can afford having two, three or four: why not having more than one wife, if they all agree and live in harmony and friendship sense; that is better than the woman does not get married, so to offer her the lawful choice and this will be better for the community concerning the prevention of the adultery and betrayal of the man and woman.

So why don't you refuse the unlawful relations that are now the usual habit and custom of the Western communities (they call it the relation: the girl-friend and the boy-friend, in addition to the prostitution) ?

Example: Prophet Jacob (Israel) loved Joseph and his brother Benjamen more than the rest of his sons (who belonged to three wives of Joseph) --> this lead to the hatred and enmity which happened between Joseph and his brothers so that they wanted to kill him at the start then they put him in the pit of the well.
While if he was just in loving them equally as their father, they might not have that hatred among themselves.

(Surely, in [the story of] Joseph with his brothers are signs to the inquiring.

When they said: "Surely Joseph and his brother [Benjamin] are dearer to our father than we are, though we are a [strong] band. Our father is indeed in manifest error."

"Kill Joseph or cast him into a [remote] land; that your father's face may be exclusively free for you, and thereafter you may be a good people."

One of them said: "Do not kill Joseph, but if you [insist on] doing[that], then throw him down to the bottom of the well, that some of those passing by may pick him out.")


The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran 12: 7-10

إِذْ قَالُواْ لَيُوسُفُ وَأَخُوهُ أَحَبُّ إِلَى أَبِينَا مِنَّا وَنَحْنُ عُصْبَةٌ إِنَّ أَبَانَا لَفِي ضَلاَلٍ مُّبِينٍ

www.quran-ayat.com