Add an additional faith to your faith
- Thread starter eanassir
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No it's not, your explanation makes no sense at all to me. If that's an argument from the Quran I think you've proven the opposite of what you're trying to prove. The first link doesn't work for me, Firefox says it can't find the server, and the second one I cut off after a minute or two. It appears to be a man chanting in Arabic, and you're probably the only active poster who understands the language. I can't imagine what you were thinking, offering that as part of your argument.
The Egyptians had a baboon god Thoth but I'm not sure if he is blurry like Bigfoot or not.
The Gospel According to Biff says that Jesus spent six years in a Buddhist Monastery, where he spent time communing with the last of the Abominable Snowmen. Not sure if that helps the discussion out or not though.
Oh cool. Yeti. Yeah. He's blurry too. No clear photos of that one either.The Gospel According to Biff says that Jesus spent six years in a Buddhist Monastery, where he spent time communing with the last of the Abominable Snowmen. Not sure if that helps the discussion out or not though.
As I know; nothing about Bigfoot is mentioned in the Quran..
The Quran produces its evidences and its arguments
I explain the evidences and arguments of the Quran; what's your objection?
A book carrying its evidences and arguments is a very valuable and respected. The Quran argues with them: The Quran tells the prophet: Say to them in reply to their question: so and so.
E.g. God answers their claim that He is Jesus himself: in the aya 5: 17
لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَآلُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ مِنَ اللّهِ شَيْئًا إِنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُهْلِكَ الْمَسِيحَ ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ وَأُمَّهُ وَمَن فِي الأَرْضِ جَمِيعًا وَلِلّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَمَا بَيْنَهُمَا يَخْلُقُ مَا يَشَاء وَاللّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ
The explanation:
(They are non-believers, those who say: "God is [Jesus] Christ, son of Mary";
say [to them, Mohammed]:
"Who, then, can prevent God [from doing any harm] should He will to kill [Jesus] Christ, son of Mary and his mother and those in the earth altogether!?"
The sovereignty, of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them belongs to God;
He creates whatever He likes;
surely, God is All-Able to do anything.)
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Quote: Originally Posted by petros
Are you sure about that? No mention of Nephilim in the Quran?
Quote: Originally Posted by petros
Are you sure about that? No mention of Nephilim in the Quran?
Don't ask him. He will just give you another incomprehensible babble from his 'holy' book.
Three objections:
1. your explanations make no sense to me.
2. you can't cite the Quran in support of its claims about itself. Anybody can write a book containing claims that other claims in it are true, and many people do, but it's not a legitimate argument.
3. the evidence and arguments offered in the Quran are insufficient to establish the truth of its claims, or yours.
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosAre you sure about that? No mention of Nephilim in the Quran?
No mythologies in the Quran
Nothing of such mythologies is cited in the Glorious Quran, which came as correction of the previous distorted books.
There was in Palestine a people giant in stature (the Amalec): the Children of Israel saw them and were afraid of fighting them: it does not mean they were so huge say: three meters long: no of course. And in fact, till now the Palestinans are relatively huge in stature in spite of their difficult economic situation under the occupation by their fatal enemy: the Zionists, who have about exterminated the Paletinians or greatly lessened their number by forcing them to emigrate and leave their home country and by killing the youth of them who are the productive part of the people.
E.g. if you compare the Iraqi people and the Palestinian people since 1948 till now:
The two peoples were about the same count at that time, while the Iraqi now are more than 20 or 25 millions inspite of the wars that took place in Iraq during all this time period.
And compare the number of Palestinians now.
Anyhow the Children of Israel, at the time of Prophet Moses, sent 12 spies, one of each tribe, to spy the land of Jericho before attacking it according to God's command, because the People of Jericho at that time were idolaters worshipping the idols,but the spies saw the poeple are giants or huge in stature and they were afraid to fight them; so 10 of those spies started to lie and dispraise that land. But Jushu son of Non and Caleb son of Jephone said the truth about that land and its prosperity and said don't be afraid of its people: God is with us. The story is well known.
Their Rebellion against Their Prophet
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You went beyond the truth in your reply.
All the three points are unjustifiable.
1- It makes no sense to you: because you follow your desire rather than referring to the sound judgment.
2- The Quran itself argues with you: i.e. God Himself give the evidence and answer to their objections to many points. And I gave you the example of how God refuted their claim of Himself having Jesus as His son.
3- This third assertion is false and similar to your #1 point.
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Okay eanassir, what would it take, what kind of evidence would be required, to convince you you're wrong?
I gotta admire the guy's faith, tenacity and focus. Ennassir enjoys all the taunting because it reaffirms his faith which in reality makes him a true Muslim just as a true Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Grand Architect or Creator of the 4 Directions believer won't be budged by taunting or ridicule.
What makes it all so amazing is you can't prove or disprove the existance of some thing or someone that creates Structure in the Universe because Structure IS Universal.
What makes it all so amazing is you can't prove or disprove the existance of some thing or someone that creates Structure in the Universe because Structure IS Universal.
Well, I'm not interested in making an atheist out of him, but I'd like to know what it'd take to convince him that the Quran is something other than divine revelation and his world view needs some adjustment.
You want to know what it would take to strip him of faith... I've always found that an odd endeavour. Mind you, I find evangelism equally odd.
What strikes me as the more interesting and fruitful use of one's time, is finding out what it would take to convince him that he doesn't need to make everyone else think like him, to have his own faith. Oddly enough though, I can't help but think that would involve bolstering his faith. It seems to me those who spend so much time preaching their religious views and attempting to gather or convert minds to their way of thinking, are somewhat insecure in them.
Okay... I'm done babbling away, carry on.
If it is his path to spirituality and it brings him joy he is welcome to share his joy in what he has found through the Islamic path.
He hasn't spread any hatred or gone off the handle with personal attacks.
All religions have at least one section dealing with preparing yourself for ridicule and disbelief.
Many of the greatest scientific discoveries were sourced from religion as religion is equally sourced to science.
What is it that made Hathor the cow faced Egyptian goddess the godess of joy, motherhood and love?
What makes the cow sacred in Hinduism? The cow is Devi, the mother of all godesses.
Why the motherhood theme tied to the cow?
I'll show you.
I know LOTS of guys who worship Devi and Hathor.
He hasn't spread any hatred or gone off the handle with personal attacks.
All religions have at least one section dealing with preparing yourself for ridicule and disbelief.
Many of the greatest scientific discoveries were sourced from religion as religion is equally sourced to science.
What is it that made Hathor the cow faced Egyptian goddess the godess of joy, motherhood and love?
What makes the cow sacred in Hinduism? The cow is Devi, the mother of all godesses.
Why the motherhood theme tied to the cow?
I'll show you.
I know LOTS of guys who worship Devi and Hathor.
You are in extreme error; you are misguided.
And inspite of this, you think yourselves know everything: and that no God, no afterlife, no revealed heavenly books, no true prophets; and you only know a little bit (whatever you know, it is only a little bit) of knowledge, and you are so glad with your little knowledge, and you think you know everything and know the wisdom of NATURE as you call it.
According to you: Moses was criminal: that is if he once existed, Jesus is impostor and adulterer: that is if he once existed, and that Mohammed was charlatan and pedophil. But you are wrong, and you will sooner discover you are wrong: that is when you die and see the angels of death seizing your souls out of your bodies.
So instead of God, you chose nature as your god, and instead of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed who worked according to God's revelation, you resorted to Hitchins and Dawkins who work according to Satan suggestions.
Therefore, hear this marvelous soor 47 of the Quran
Lisnt
The explanation:
And inspite of this, you think yourselves know everything: and that no God, no afterlife, no revealed heavenly books, no true prophets; and you only know a little bit (whatever you know, it is only a little bit) of knowledge, and you are so glad with your little knowledge, and you think you know everything and know the wisdom of NATURE as you call it.
According to you: Moses was criminal: that is if he once existed, Jesus is impostor and adulterer: that is if he once existed, and that Mohammed was charlatan and pedophil. But you are wrong, and you will sooner discover you are wrong: that is when you die and see the angels of death seizing your souls out of your bodies.
So instead of God, you chose nature as your god, and instead of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed who worked according to God's revelation, you resorted to Hitchins and Dawkins who work according to Satan suggestions.
Therefore, hear this marvelous soor 47 of the Quran
Lisnt
The explanation:
( In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful)
- Those who unbelieve and bar [people] from God's way [: His religion]; God [will] make their works void.
- But those who believe [in God alone] and work righteous [deeds] and believe in [the Quran] revealed to Mohammed – and it is the very truth [coming] from their Lord – He concealed their evil acts [from the sight of souls], and improved their condition [into peace and easiness.]
- That [is the rewarding of the two parties] because the unbelievers follow the falsehood [so they deserve the punishment], while the believers follow the truth [coming] from their Lord [so they deserve Paradise]; thus does God expound to people their parables.
- When you meet the unbelievers [in war], smite [their] necks [with the word], then – when you have made wide slaughter among them – tie fast [their] bonds, then [set them free], either by grace [if they convert,] or ransom [if they refuse to convert], till [the people of] the war lay down their load. That [killing and capture is their reward], and had God willed He would have avenged Himself upon them, but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of God, He will not waste their [righteous] work.
- He will guide them [to the way of Paradise], and improve their condition [with prosperous life.]
- And admit them into Paradise, about which He acquainted them [in the Quran, and – after death – by the tongue of angels.]
- [not translated yet]
- But the unbelievers, 'failure and defeat' is for them; [God] will even waste [the reward of] their [righteous] deeds.
- That [frustration is for them] because they hate [the statements] that God has revealed, so He has frustrated their acts.
- Have they not traveled throughout the earth to see the end of those [peoples] before them [when they had denied their apostles? God had demolished [their homes] upon them, and surely there will be for the unbelievers [among your people, O Mohammed] the like thereof.
- That [destroying unbelievers and helping believers] is because God is the Protecting Master of the believers and that the unbelievers have no Protecting Master.
- [not translated yet]
- [not translated yet]
- [Do you think that] one [: Mohammed] who rests on a clear evidence [: the Quran] from his Lord, as one [: Abu-Jahl] whose bad work is made fair-seeming to him [by Satan], and they follow their vain desires [in addition to following Abu-Jahl.]
- [not translated yet]
- Some of them listen to you [Mohammed], then when they [: the listeners and the writers of the Quran] go out from you[r meeting], they [: the listeners] say to those [writers] having knowledge: "What is it that he [: Mohammed] has just said!?" On the hearts of such [men] God has stamped [with the 'Rayn'], and they follow their vain desires.
- As to those that are guided – God has increased them in guidance, and acquainted them with what they should ward off.
- Will they wait but only for the Hour [of death] to come on them all of a sudden; for its 'indicative signs' have already come; so how can they [repent] when it will come upon them, when then they will remember [all their good and evil deeds, at the time of their death.]
- Then [O Mohammed] know that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for your sin and for believing men and believing women; for God knows how you [O people] move about [by day-time] and how you tarry [in your homes by night.]
- those who believe say: "If only a soora were revealed [to prescribe fighting!]" But when a clearly decisive soora is revealed, and fighting is prescribed therein, you can see those in whose hearts is a disease [of hypocrisy] looking at you [Mohammed] as the looking of one fainting from death, but [to be slain in God's way] is far better for them [than living.]
- [It will be better for them if they show] obedience and [say] a reasonable speech; then when the leader [of the army] determines [to fight, the believers will sally forth while the hypocrites will lag behind]; but if they were true to God, it were best for them.
- Will you, then, insist [on your hypocrisy?] And would you then, on leaving [the prophet] work corruption in the land and break you bonds of kinship!?
- Such [sinners] are they whom God has cursed, and so made them deaf, and blinded their sights.
- So will they not meditate on the Quran? Or are there locks on [their] hearts?
- Surely, those who turn back as apostates after being rightly guided; Satan has instigated them and stirred vain hopes within themselves.
- This [instigation of Satan is the reward of the hypocrites] because of their saying to those [associaters] who are averse to [their dispraise in the Quran] that God has revealed: "We will obey you in some matters." But God knows [very well] their going on [plights; to acquaint you, Mohammed, therewith to be cautious of them.]
- But how [will they be] when the angels [of death] take their souls at death, and smite their faces and their backs?
- That [striking and chastisement is their reward] because they followed that which displeased God, and were averse to His good pleasure, so He frustrated their works [against the prophet.]
- Or do those [hypocrites] in whose hearts is a disease [of hypocrisy] deem that God will not expose their malice!?
- Had We willed [to expose them]We could have shown them to you [Mohammed, in the dream], and you then would have recognized them [during wakefulness] by their marks, but surely you will recognize them in the twisting of their speech; God knows [about] your deeds [and will recompense you accordingly in the Afterlife.]
- Surely, We will try you [by the fighting], in order to know those of you who strive [for the cause of God] and who persevere in patience [in the war and at the time of adversity], and that We will recognize your secrets.
- Surely, those [Jews] who unbelieve [in the Quran] and bar [people] from the way of God [: the religion of the Islam] and oppose the messenger, after the guidance has been clearly obvious to them [that Mohammed is a messenger of God]; they harm not God in the least, and He will make useless their actions [against the prophet, so they will not succeed in their plights.]
- [not translated yet]
- those who unbelieve [in the Quran] and bar [people] from God's way and then die being unbelievers; God will not forgive them [their sins.]
- So do not become weak and invite for peace; for you [will] be victorious; God is with you, and will not deprive you of [the reward of] your work.
- The life of [this] World is nothing more than a play and a pastime; and if you believe and ward off [God's disobedience], He [will] grant you your recompense [in the Afterlife] and demand not of you [to pay all] your possessions [but only a portion of that.]
- If He asks you for all your possessions, and presses you, you are niggardly, and that [will] bring to light all your rancor.
- Here are you [believers] invited to expend in God's cause, and among you are some who are niggardly, and he who is niggardly is but niggardly against his own soul[: he will be poor in the Afterlife], but God does not need [your wealth]; it is you who need [His mercy], and if you turn away [from expending] He will substitute another [generous] people instead of you, then they will not be [niggardly] like you.)
Not at all. All of his junk science he gets from the Quran, all of his explanations for geopolitical realities he gets from the Quran, all of his expectations for the future of the planet and humanity he gets from the Quran, all of his solutions for all problems in the world he gets from the Quran, and one can certainly have faith without taking the Quran that way.