Bill C-32, copyright infringment or civil rights infringement?

What is your opinion?

  • For

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Against

    Votes: 10 90.9%

  • Total voters
    11

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
5Gig......per month????
Who's your service provider???? just ordinary surfing is almost 100 megs a day..and that's not including watching videos on youtube.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
5Gig......per month????
Who's your service provider???? just ordinary surfing is almost 100 megs a day..and that's not including watching videos on youtube.

Such limitations and examples of overcharging are not unusual in Canada. I pay over a $100 a month for a top speed of 500k and am limited to 375 megs/day. Canada has one of the highest priced and least effective internet systems in the world. The main reason for this is that internet infrastructure has been left up to the private sector, which is not interested in extending internet services to all Canadians, but instead maximizes its profits by concentrating on large urban centres.

So far as I can see this is another of those unenforceable laws. People are going to trade media with one another regardless of what government says. The history of the internet is that if something cannot be done one way then it will be done another. I doubt any government can keep up with such rapidly changing technology. Not only that, but to a large extent telling the public that it cannot share media is somewhat equivalent to telling someone who buys a book that he cannot lend it to a friend.
 

barney

Electoral Member
Aug 1, 2007
336
9
18
The new law will require ISP's to act as an agent for the government by monitoring and reporting your activity on the web. This is where the charter violation comes in. they will have to track everything you do and let the feds have complete access to all the records.

That is an invasion of privacy.

ISPs already spy on you; some have been known to go as far as throttling users that access certain types of data, i.e. that the ISP disagrees with.

I skimmed through the document so maybe I missed something but all I could find that implies what you've said is found in Paragraph 41.25. That would require the owner of the website hosting the copyright-protected data to hold on to info about the user who uploaded the data...if the copyright holder makes a formal complaint. It's possible that the ISP would also be required to divulge info on their client if requested by authorities.

The wording in these cheesy documents--and Law in general--is so inevitably open-ended that it really comes down to how it's interpreted. The potential for legitimizing a digital Orwellian nightmare down the road could be hidden in there and you'd never realize it until it was too late.


Just FYI - My wife and I have a colletion of aver 1200 DVDs all purchased legally and have copied most of them onto an external hard drive for convenience in selecting and watching movies. This would, under the new legislation cost me up to $5000 per movie if anyone wanted to prosecute.

From the Bill C-32 Parliamentary document:


Reproduction for private purposes

29.22 (1) It is not an infringement of copyright for an individual to reproduce a work or other subject-matter or any substantial part of a work or other subject-matter if

(a) the copy of the work or other subject-matter from which the reproduction is made is not an infringing copy;

(b) the individual legally obtained the copy of the work or other subject-matter from which the reproduction is made, other than by borrowing it or renting it, and owns or is authorized to use the medium or device on which it is reproduced;

(c) the individual, in order to make the reproduction, did not circumvent, as defined in section 41, a technological protection measure, as defined in that section, or cause one to be circumvented;

(d) the individual does not give the reproduction away; and

(e) the reproduction is used only for private purposes.
The following seems a bit redundant to me considering the above but it also applies:


Backup copies

29.24 (1) It is not an infringement of copyright in a work or other subject-matter for a person who owns — or has a licence to use — a copy of the work or subject-matter (in this section referred to as the “source copy”) to reproduce the source copy if

(a) the person does so solely for backup purposes in case the source copy is lost, damaged or otherwise rendered unusable;

(b) the source copy is not an infringing copy;

(c) the person, in order to make the reproduction, did not circumvent, as defined in section 41, a technological protection meas- ure, as defined in that section, or cause one to be circumvented; and

(d) the person does not give any of the reproductions away.


There are other Sections but the part that applies to you is Subsection (c) of each Paragraph. Existing Canadian law entitles you to make a copy for personal use, so clearly there's a conflict.

For most, this is a non-issue; get a decent copying app to "circumvent" the protection and use the copy to prevent wear on the original. Absolutely nobody cares so long as you bought the original. Main problem is that, from what I can tell, the Bill penalizes people who provide the means to circumvent.

The Bill targets illegal distribution, particularly over the internet. It just so happens that the original has to be bought (or stolen) before copies can be made and then distributed, hence the above necessary paragraph.


People will pay for what they want....But shouldn't be expected to pay,or gouged, for what they don't...
And won't ..:wink:

That argument is used by all these P2P guys: it doesn't follow. If you don't like something, you don't buy it. If you do like something (i.e. appreciate the creator's work), then you buy it. If they overcharge, you don't buy it until they drop prices. But if you pirate it, you're saying that you appreciate the work but aren't willing to support the person who did the work, i.e. the high record label/producer charges are a moot point because the artist still gets a cut, albeit usually a much smaller one, meaning you're still stealing from the artist.

My point is that you can't justify copyright infringement that easily. Yes the proposed law is draconian, but that doesn't make piracy any less immoral (unless it's a necessity, in which case pirate away).
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
Such limitations and examples of overcharging are not unusual in Canada. I pay over a $100 a month for a top speed of 500k and am limited to 375 megs/day. Canada has one of the highest priced and least effective internet systems in the world. The main reason for this is that internet infrastructure has been left up to the private sector, which is not interested in extending internet services to all Canadians, but instead maximizes its profits by concentrating on large urban centres.

So far as I can see this is another of those unenforceable laws. People are going to trade media with one another regardless of what government says. The history of the Internet is that if something cannot be done one way then it will be done another. I doubt any government can keep up with such rapidly changing technology. Not only that, but to a large extent telling the public that it cannot share media is somewhat equivalent to telling someone who buys a book that he cannot lend it to a friend.
My phone bill is about $75 before taxes, and broken down, its 35 for the phone and the options like call forwarding, conference calling etc.
The other part of the package is broken down between (5 megabits download Internet) and 1500 minutes long distance in Canada. I don't suppose I have a limit because I upload and download music videos from you tube constantly and about four or five movies a month with never an add-on to my bill except for the odd business call to the US (I mostly use Skype for long calls to friends in the south)
They have tried many times in the last few years to convince me to upgrade me to 15megabits with a 30 gig cap but I won't fall for that little trap. I'm retired and have plenty of time.
I also shop all the time for alternatives but I haven't found any better for the price
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Canadians have a reputation of being obedient to laws no matter what. Did this law sneak by all of you like when the U.S. government pasted the income tax law, the people never got a chance to aye or nay that one either. Contact you politicians and tell them what you think about bill C-32 and that it is a infringement on your civil rights, last I heard corporations have no civil rights.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Under the new bill Youtube will be rquired to pay into a 'collective licensing fund' or it will be a crime for them to allow anything copyrighted on their site.
I still have not found out who will manage this fund or where the money in it will go.

To the bureaucrats that run the system. What did you think?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Canada just might be blocked from YouTube. Beginning of censoring what you can or cannot do. If Obama has his way, the U.S. may not be far behind.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Media is still way too expensive these days, so until they bring it down, I kinda side with the pirates.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
ONe of the big problems this bill doesn't address is the actual ownership of the copyright. Most recording artists don't ever own the copyright on their songs. The record label or the studio do. These are fictional corporate entities,just a piece of paper, not people. If they are not real, how can they claim any damages. If the actual artist was allowed to hold their own copyrights it would be different.
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
2,717
10
38
www.myspace.com
If the price is too steep ..People won't pay...
Underground..Indie Artists will rise..:)

Let the People decide what's worth paying for..
(With a Portion of Donations going to your Favorite Charity of course..);)

Computer and Internet have changed Audio/Visual Forever!!..For the better..

Let Freedom Reign!...


- Sorry ...That last part probably didn't help for anything, did it?

You don't have to pay for it then ...Enjoy it for free!...

Ah...Uh....You all may Continue....:)

Shhh!...I'm listenin'
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
1,330
2
38
The World
Of course you won't like not being allowed to STEAL copyrighted works.

When you upload, or download materials like that, without paying for them, you are stealing. There is no other word for it, it is theft.

You do not have the right to do that, no matter what YOU think.

So, you object to a bill, that would punish you, and others, for stealing the creative efforts of others. That says a LOT about you, doesn't it?