Wonder how long it will be before we start recognizing what is happening and do something about it. Right now it is all about making money for the farmers, there was a time our grain silo's were overflowing, are they even in use anymore.
When will the food shortages become World Wide?
- Thread starter ironsides
- Start date
Green Onion Pancakes and canned Sockeye Salmon-a meal made in heaven-also my kitchen not an institution like yours.
There are no subsidies for any commercial farm of any type in Canada. It's all tax credits and rebates. Credits are useless if you aren't making any money.
If you want to try and diversify FCC or a bank won't even hand you a brochure.
Grain and corn agriculture is heavily subsized in Canada and the USA. We don't allow cheaper food in from other countries because of our marketing boards. Gotta protect Quebec, eggs and homo milk.
CAFOs, concentrated animal feedlot operations are subsidized by cheap oil. I heard on CBC radio that New Zealand does not use CAFOs, only Canada and the USA. And the way NZ eats beef is very sustainable becausse they let their steers run free and eat grass and not grain. Also buffalo only one barrel of oil to bring to market, while CAFO takes six to seven. We'll still have steak, but it might be a little tougher, with tons more taste-of the wilderness.
It is subsidized in the form that the gvt buys all the product (ie Western Canadian wheat) at a set price and alternately, they sell it at a fixed price. If the individual farmers were able to sell it to the highest bidder, the avg cost would rise... In the end, it is the consumer that is subsidized, not the producer.
By your remarkably broad and highly generalized definition, I suppose that you are also personally subsidized by cheap oil.
By the way, it'd be nice if you could actually point to a subsidy and not a tax incentive.
I still believe in mankind's ability to solve problems. "Necessity is the mother of invention"
Meanwhile, watch:
Soylent Green (1973) - IMDb
Home (2009) - IMDb
Food, Inc. (2008 ) - IMDb
I thought they were really good.
Meanwhile, watch:
Soylent Green (1973) - IMDb
Home (2009) - IMDb
Food, Inc. (2008 ) - IMDb
I thought they were really good.
Marketing boards keep out from supermarkets non-Canadian eggs and milk for example. So prices are higher here because there is less competition. So it is not a direct govt subsidy, but a consumer subsidy because we must pay more and cannot buy elsewhere. It is a legal tariff wall. A tariff in economics is considered a subsidy.
Ethanol is a subsidy. Why do farmers need "incentives" if prices are going up?
Someone said it used to be about making money for farmers and the grain silo's were
full. They are no longer full because the cost of production is so high that many do not
grow to full capacity. The tree fruit industry does not meet the cost of production and
the reason is simple sort of. Our international trade deals trade away the agricultural
industries competitive edge in favor of other consumer exports.
Here are a few examples of unfair competition for producers and I will use BC because
its the market I know best.
1 By there own admission Washington State farmers use up to 60% illegal aliens in
their work force.
2 Worker housing programs are paid for by the US Government.
3 The United States provides tree fruit growers in the United States with 10 billion dollars
in subsidies every year, and in Canada there are none.
4 Many of the chain stores are American in origin and the wholesale divisions do not use
Canadian product or if they do, they use a minimal amount to satisfy buy local customers.
5 American aid programs use American sourced food products only from withing the USA
Canada uses outside national sources so they don't have any shipping costs.
6 American domestic programs Green Stamps and Institutions like prisons and hospitals
are pretty much closed shops and Canadian producers cannot even competitively bid on
those contracts American only.
Yet American producers and compete and supply Canadian Institutions without so much as
a whisper of conscience from the Canadian Governments that by from foreign sources.
7 It should also be noted that our food safety programs rank among the best in the world and
we the farmers pay the cost both for the plants we pack the product in and on the farm.
At the same time imported fruit from beyond our boarders, is not subject to the same regulations.
8 Then there is land costs, taxes insurance a higher cost for spray and fertilizer although they
are the same products used south of the boarder.
9 The cost of farmland within the ALR is prohibitive for farming actually. While Nova Scotia farmland
costs are around 2500 an acre, in BC many areas have land prices at 75 thousand to 100 thousand
an acre. Of course many outside of BC don't realize you cannot develop it, it is frozen as
farmland. I support the ALR however if the entire community wants green space and the benefit
of it, then there must be some cost benefit to the farmer for keeping it in trust.
Unfortunately at one time there was a promise to do that but ever government in the last forty years has
broken their promises. In BC only about 5% of the land is suitable for farming so it is in need of protection
and preservation. Farmland and the products produced are required and desired by the Health Ministry,
Tourism, Education and Agricultural spin offs like welders, sales people, equipment suppliers, food
processors, and a host of others. If the tree fruit industry failed in this province the government would need
to find nearly 300 million dollars in replacement income to maintain the standard of industry and consumer
cash income.
Most people have no idea just how fragile the entire Agricultural Sector is. It should also be noted that things
are getting worse.Most farmers are in their late fifties and into their seventies and there are fewer young
farmers probably than there are young priests. There are a lot of other economic and social problems
coming too that will increase the demand for affordable food. That is the real problem in the future,
AFFORDABLE FOOD there will be so much international demand that we won't be able to afford what we
grow as it were. Time to wake up people, this is not fear mongering, it is a serious problem and if we
address it now we can avoid some of the most serious situations coming straight at us. The problem is
most will dismiss it and go back to sleep but like the bears in winter slumber, someday they will wake up and
find there is very little to eat or nothing they can afford to eat.
full. They are no longer full because the cost of production is so high that many do not
grow to full capacity. The tree fruit industry does not meet the cost of production and
the reason is simple sort of. Our international trade deals trade away the agricultural
industries competitive edge in favor of other consumer exports.
Here are a few examples of unfair competition for producers and I will use BC because
its the market I know best.
1 By there own admission Washington State farmers use up to 60% illegal aliens in
their work force.
2 Worker housing programs are paid for by the US Government.
3 The United States provides tree fruit growers in the United States with 10 billion dollars
in subsidies every year, and in Canada there are none.
4 Many of the chain stores are American in origin and the wholesale divisions do not use
Canadian product or if they do, they use a minimal amount to satisfy buy local customers.
5 American aid programs use American sourced food products only from withing the USA
Canada uses outside national sources so they don't have any shipping costs.
6 American domestic programs Green Stamps and Institutions like prisons and hospitals
are pretty much closed shops and Canadian producers cannot even competitively bid on
those contracts American only.
Yet American producers and compete and supply Canadian Institutions without so much as
a whisper of conscience from the Canadian Governments that by from foreign sources.
7 It should also be noted that our food safety programs rank among the best in the world and
we the farmers pay the cost both for the plants we pack the product in and on the farm.
At the same time imported fruit from beyond our boarders, is not subject to the same regulations.
8 Then there is land costs, taxes insurance a higher cost for spray and fertilizer although they
are the same products used south of the boarder.
9 The cost of farmland within the ALR is prohibitive for farming actually. While Nova Scotia farmland
costs are around 2500 an acre, in BC many areas have land prices at 75 thousand to 100 thousand
an acre. Of course many outside of BC don't realize you cannot develop it, it is frozen as
farmland. I support the ALR however if the entire community wants green space and the benefit
of it, then there must be some cost benefit to the farmer for keeping it in trust.
Unfortunately at one time there was a promise to do that but ever government in the last forty years has
broken their promises. In BC only about 5% of the land is suitable for farming so it is in need of protection
and preservation. Farmland and the products produced are required and desired by the Health Ministry,
Tourism, Education and Agricultural spin offs like welders, sales people, equipment suppliers, food
processors, and a host of others. If the tree fruit industry failed in this province the government would need
to find nearly 300 million dollars in replacement income to maintain the standard of industry and consumer
cash income.
Most people have no idea just how fragile the entire Agricultural Sector is. It should also be noted that things
are getting worse.Most farmers are in their late fifties and into their seventies and there are fewer young
farmers probably than there are young priests. There are a lot of other economic and social problems
coming too that will increase the demand for affordable food. That is the real problem in the future,
AFFORDABLE FOOD there will be so much international demand that we won't be able to afford what we
grow as it were. Time to wake up people, this is not fear mongering, it is a serious problem and if we
address it now we can avoid some of the most serious situations coming straight at us. The problem is
most will dismiss it and go back to sleep but like the bears in winter slumber, someday they will wake up and
find there is very little to eat or nothing they can afford to eat.
I would suggest that if you don't want 'subsidies', you should try to sell your grain on the open market, but, more importantly, never, ever, rely on the wheat board or government, in a bad year.
Maybe you haven't, but lot of others have. People want all of the upside without taking responsibility for the downside.
The comment about the milk/eggs is a little confusing, however, I will respond to the tariff comment. I can see your logic, however, I think you are seeing the mirror image of what I see. I am looking at this with a strong focus on the relationship between the domestic producer and consumer.
In terms of the ethanol example, a farmer can't sell their grain to an ethanol producer (Western Canada), attempting to do so results in legal action being taken against them. That said, the price is dictated by the Board and it is the Board that sells to the consumer be they ethanol producers or pasta manufacturers.
I'll see if I can dig up some data relative to world market prices and the Boards dictated price, but based on input I have from family in the sector, the Board price is (apparently) lower.
A quick byword relative to the family I have in the agri sector: The deal through CWB is bad enough that any grains that they produce are ear-marked as feed for livestock. In the event that there is an amount of surplus grain, they will sell to the CWB... To me, that says something very compelling.
In the areas West of Manitoba (or maybe they are included), the only option is to go through the CWB. Attempting to sell your wheat independently results in charges being laid.
You have no choice in this.
''Soylent Green (1973) - IMDb''
As I have written before, Malthusianism is the biggest fraud since laissez-faire capitalism. Science and agriculture have advanced far more than has the population. We can EASILY feed a population of 60 billion. In another decade we can advance science even more so.
As I have written before, Malthusianism is the biggest fraud since laissez-faire capitalism. Science and agriculture have advanced far more than has the population. We can EASILY feed a population of 60 billion. In another decade we can advance science even more so.
Easy - instead of all that warmongering, simply put the resources into expansion of agricultural output and storage.