America Doomed,Depression & War Looms

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The above mentions only small change of 23 trillion dollars and all the other figures.
The real serious amount scarcely gets mentioned. Out there world wide which is a
real threat a lot of it from the US, is the 1.2 quadrillion dollars in derivatives or leveraged
funds. This is the looming disaster that could engulf all of us and no one really knows
how to deal with it.

That looming disaster has already engulfed us the solution is the same as always, total war. Alternatively, for the sake of hope, we could be spared all the blood and destruction, but miracles like that just don't happen anymore. Seriously there is no way to reverse the process we have already invested so many decades advancing to this point. The debts can never be paid, the books can never be balanced, the reset and forget button has already been pushed. Nobody cares about the 1.2 quadrillion pieces of paper one dollar bills, we all want the gold or the silver the food off your table and two of your three kids to defend the fatherland in the Orient.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
At it's most fundamental level economies must MAKE things. The illusion that we are somehow in a 'post industrial' age is the biggest con game on the planet.

We, in the West, are in fact a profoundly industrial economy in what we consume. The nonsense we've seen with financial games, in the mortgage derivatives mess which led to 2008 collapse, has produced a pervasive sense that this shuffling of electronic blips has replaced in a real sense the manufacturing economy. It has not.

It has merely plunged Western countries into deep debt, with an ever increasing portion of the population thrown into poverty by economic systems that can no longer provide even subsistence level jobs sufficient for the population.

The derivatives mess is still with us, especially in currency manipulations, as is the debt. We will see a series of shocks in the coming years as these fictional financial instruments balloon up and then explode.

But at the heart of the crisis is Free Trade and Monetarism (free trade in currency and credit), the loss of national integrated industrial economies, developed by tariffs and strict national control of currency and credit.

That malfeasance, which permeates EVERY political party, will ultimately reduce the West to impoverishment and global war.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The Systemic Global Economic Crisis: At the Crossroads of Three Roads of Global Chaos


A bloodless international system


The first path that the crisis can take to cause world chaos is simply a violent and unpredictable shock. The dilapidated state of the international system is now so advanced that its cohesion is at the mercy of any large-scale disaster (4). Just look at the inability of the international community to effectively help Haiti over the past year (5), the United States to rebuild New Orleans for six years, the United Nations to resolve the problems in Darfur, Côte d'Ivoire for a decade, the United States to progress peace in the Middle East, NATO to beat the Taliban in Afghanistan, the Security Council to control the Korean and Iranian issues, the West to stabilize Lebanon, the G20 to end the global crisis be it financial, food, economic, social, monetary, ... to see that over the whole range of climatic and humanitarian disasters, like economic and social crises, the international system is now powerless.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
It's amazing how the Left in Canada lives for the United States to faill, of course they're to ignorant to realize should the United States fail Canada could be right behind because we're linked together in so many ways.




















Wednesday
Jan192011
« Dr. Bernanke Gets a Phone Call From China... »



---
Guest post from Gary North...
VIDEO is at the bottom of the story...
---
Zhou Xiaochuan is the Governor of the People’s Bank of China. Imagine that the following phone call were to take place.

Zhou: Hello. Dr. Bernanke?

Bernanke: Yes.

Zhou: I wanted to let you know about the decision that our board has taken, after consulting with the Premier and the Politburo’s Standing Committee. We hope you are sitting down.

Bernanke: I get it. A little Oriental humor.

Zhou: You could say that.

Bernanke: What can I do for you?

Zhou: You can abandon your plan to purchase $600 billion of Treasury bonds.

Bernanke: The Federal Open Market Committee voted ten to 1 for this policy. I cannot change it now.

Zhou: We think it is an unwise policy. It will lower the value of the dollar. Americans will then buy fewer goods from China.

Bernanke: That is not how we see it. We think the policy is required to put Americans back to work. They will buy more goods from China and everywhere else when they are once again working.

Zhou: You will increase the supply of dollars, which will lower the dollar’s price internationally. Imported goods will cost Americans more. An increased supply of dollars will mean a lower price for dollars. It’s supply and demand.

Bernanke: That is the old economics. That is the logic of Adam Smith and Milton Friedman and those kooks from Vienna. We are committed to the new economics.

Zhou: Who teaches it? Where?

Bernanke: I taught it for years at Princeton.

Zhou: Where Paul Krugman also teaches?

Bernanke: Yes.

Zhou: We see it differently here. We prefer the older economics.

Bernanke: Adam Smith’s economics?

Zhou: No, even older.

Bernanke: Mercantilism?

Zhou: That is what you call it. We call it the export-driven Asian miracle.

Bernanke: But mercantilist governments wanted to hoard gold. Your nation does not hoard gold. Your bank holds U.S. Treasury debt.

Zhou: That is the purpose of my call.

Bernanke: Gold?

Zhou: No. U.S. Treasury debt.

Bernanke: What about it?

Zhou: There is too much of it.

Bernanke: You sound like Ron Paul.

Zhou: Ah, yes. Congressman Paul. I understand that he is likely to be the next chairman of the Monetary Policy Subcommittee. You and he should have some interesting discussions.

Bernanke: I prefer to talk about Treasury debt.

Zhou: We have determined that an increase of $600 billion in your purchases of Treasury debt will lower the rate of interest on the debt.

Bernanke: That is our thought, too.

Zhou: We hold almost $1 trillion in Treasury debt.

Bernanke: You ought to buy more.

Zhou: We will be losing money on our holdings if rates fall.

Bernanke: You ought to buy more.

Zhou: The value of the dollar will fall. That will lower the value of our holdings.

Bernanke: Nevertheless, you ought to buy more.

Zhou: We have decided to own less.

Bernanke: How much less?

Zhou: $600 billion less.

Bernanke:

Zhou: Dr. Bernanke?

Bernanke:

Zhou: Are you still there?

Bernanke: I am still here.

Zhou: We have decided that every time the Federal Reserve purchases its monthly total of $75 billion, we will sell $75 billion.

Bernanke: Are you serious?

Zhou: You sound like Nancy Pelosi.

Bernanke: But that would raise interest rates on Treasury debt.

Zhou: That is our conclusion, too. But remember: we own lots of Treasury debt. We could use a better rate of return.

Bernanke: But higher rates might cause a recession in the United States.

Zhou: That is our conclusion, too.

Bernanke: But that will mean fewer imports from China.

Zhou: We think it will mean more bankrupt manufacturing facilities in the United States. Then Americans will come back to our manufacturers.

Bernanke: But this could cause unemployment in China if you are wrong.

Zhou: We are willing to risk that.

Bernanke: That is a big risk on your part.

Zhou: No bigger than the risk on your part by inflating the monetary base by 30%. That could raise prices in the United States.

Bernanke: We don’t think so.

Zhou: Why not?

Bernanke: Because our bankers are so frightened of recession in 2011 that they are not lending. They just turn the money over to the FED.

Zhou: Then you do not expect inflation?

Bernanke: Only a little. Maybe 2% to 3%.

Zhou: You sound like Milton Friedman.

Bernanke: Around here, we say, "Better 2% inflation than 9.6% unemployment."

Zhou: We think it is better for us not to hold onto Treasury debt that cannot be paid off.

Bernanke. Don’t worry. We owe it to ourselves.

Zhou: On the contrary, you owe it to us.

Bernanke: It’s only a figure of speech.

Zhou: We can figure. We are going to be left holding the bag, as you say. All we have is a pile of IOUs.

Bernanke: They’re as good as gold.

Zhou: Since they pay zero interest, we think gold is better.

Bernanke: It’s only a figure of speech.

Zhou: We can figure. Gold is over $1,350 an ounce. The dollar has been falling. We think the older mercantilism was right. We want to own more gold.

Bernanke: You can’t eat gold!

Zhou: We can’t eat T-bonds, either.

Bernanke: But if you sell dollars, their price will fall.

Zhou: Why?

Bernanke: It’s supply and demand.

Zhou: Gotcha!

Bernanke: You speak English very well.

Zhou: You see, I was educated in your country at UCRA.

Bernanke: Really?

Zhou: Not really. But I love those old Richard Loo World War II movies. He made a great Japanese officer.

Bernanke: But if you sell Treasury debt, that could start a fire sale. Central banks all over the world might start selling T-bonds.

Zhou: That is a possibility.

Bernanke: But that would make your holdings worth even less.

Zhou: That is true. So, if Japan starts selling, we will dump all of our holdings in one shot. We might as well get out before the rush.

Bernanke: But that could crash the dollar!

Zhou: That is a possibility.

Bernanke: You’re bluffing!

Zhou: That is a possibility.

Bernanke: But this is not the way that central banks operate.

Zhou: How do they operate?

Bernanke: They inflate.

Zhou: Always?

Bernanke: Of course always. That is the only policy tool we have.

Zhou: You could deflate.

Bernanke: Are you serious?

Zhou: You really have Nancy Pelosi down pat.

Bernanke: There is no way we can deflate.

Zhou: What about your exit strategy? That is deflation.

Bernanke: In theory, yes. But we don’t intend to execute it.

Zhou: That is not what you told Congress. You told Congress you have an exit strategy. Several, in fact.

Bernanke: We do have them. We just don’t intend to implement them.

Zhou: Do you think you can fool Congress?

Bernanke: Are you serious? Congress doesn’t know horse apples from apple butter.

Zhou: You mistake Barney Frank for Ron Paul. You will now have to deal with Ron Paul.

Bernanke:

Zhou: Hello.

Bernanke:

Zhou: Are you still there?

Bernanke: Yes, I’m still here.

Zhou: We are not asking you to deflate. We are asking you not to inflate.

Bernanke: But we must inflate.

Zhou: Why?

Bernanke: Because we have 9.6% unemployment.

Zhou: What has that got to do with your decision to inflate?

Bernanke: We must lower interest rates.

Zhou: For Treasury bonds.

Bernanke: Yes.

Zhou: What does that have to do with unemployment?

Bernanke: When mid-term rates are lower, businesses will start new projects and hire people.

Zhou: Mid-maturity T-bond interest rates are the lowest ever since what you call the Great Depression and what we call the old normal.

Bernanke: You can never have low enough T-bond rates.

Zhou: But, as Treasury bond investors, we don’t like low rates. We like high rates. We hold lots of T-bonds. If we get very low rates, we might as well own gold.

Bernanke: But you will like all that increased demand for made-in-China goods when all those unemployed Americans go back to work.

Zhou: But rates are lower than they have been in 80 years. You still have 9.6% unemployment.

Bernanke: But if the 10-year T-bond rate goes from 2.6% to 1%, American businessmen will hire millions of workers.

Zhou: Do you have evidence for this in one of those dozen Federal Reserve bank monthly bulletins? Or maybe in the Federal Reserve Bulletin?

Bernanke: Not really. But it’s the thought that counts.

Zhou: I don’t think we are getting anywhere. So, just to remind you. We will sell enough Treasury debt each month to match any net increase in the amount you buy.

Bernanke: Dollar for dollar?

Zhou: Dollar for dollar. But, I’ll tell you what. Buy them from us, and we’ll give you a discount for volume purchases.

Bernanke: You guys never miss a trick, do you?

Zhou: We’re really not inscrutable. We just offer discounts for volume purchases.

Bernanke: I will discuss this with the FOMC.

Zhou: Do that. Shalom!

Bernanke: That’s my middle name.

Zhou: You Americans have a saying for everything.

Bernanke: No. I mean it. That really is my middle name.

Zhou: If you start buying Treasury debt, you’ll have an honorary middle name over here.

Bernanke: What’s that?

Zhou: Paper Tiger.
##
Holy <censored> ever heard of a link? :roll:
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
It's amazing how the Left in Canada lives for the United States to fall, of course they're to ignorant to realize should the United States fall Canada could be right behind them because we're linked together in so many ways.


You don't read do you Johny? We are not waiting for it to fall, we are waiting for it to hit bottom. And anyway we know we'll get dragged down with USA the whole western world knows that, it's not just an American problem Utah. What part of flat broke Western Economy don't you get?

 
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Outta here

Senate Member
Jul 8, 2005
6,778
158
63
Edmonton AB
It's amazing how the Left in Canada lives for the United States to faill, of course they're to ignorant to realize should the United States fail Canada could be right behind because we're linked together in so many ways.


Holy <censored> ever heard of a link? :roll:

Holy <censored>. Ever heard of trimming your quote?
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38


You don't read do you Johny? We are not waiting for it to fall, we are waiting for it to hit bottom. And anyway we know we'll get dragged down with USA the whole western world knows that, it's not just an American problem Utah. What part of flat broke Western Economy don't you get?

No <censored> it's not an American problem but in reality if and when the United States does fail/hit bottom China will be there to pick up the pieces..

All you gotta do is post them Johnny., lets have them consequences cowboy.
Our Military alliance NATO,NORAD is the most important.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
No <censored> it's not an American problem but in reality if and when the United States does fail/hit bottom China will be there to pick up the pieces..


Our Military alliance NATO,NORAD is the most important.

Hey I understand your concern for the future, that's good, but you need a compass, to get you attacking in the right direction. Ever hear of crooked bankers?
 

Outta here

Senate Member
Jul 8, 2005
6,778
158
63
Edmonton AB
Fail, hit bottom it's all the same to the Left is to ignorant to realize the consequences if that happens.


Holy <censored> I wasn't talking to you.. ;-)

pfffft... You quote a post that wasn't specifically addressed to you, doubling the annoyance factor by having us all scroll through it all again, and then take umbrage at my commenting on your comment???

<Censored> you.
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
10,749
103
48
Under a Lone Palm
OK, I just read this entire thread. Here's the problem. I'm on my last beer. What should I do?
Kill myself now or take seven Advil and delete my subscription to this thread before going to bed?
You make the call.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
pfffft... You quote a post that wasn't specifically addressed to you, doubling the annoyance factor by having us all scroll through it all again, and then take umbrage at my commenting on your comment???

<Censored> you.

:lol:
Ohh I'm shakin, I'm shakin.

Hey I understand your concern for the future, that's good, but you need a compass, to get you attacking in the right direction. Ever hear of crooked bankers?
If you are referring to the bailout U.S. Banks received while not having to be accountable for how it was used, yep I sure have.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
27
48
Chillliwack, BC
There is a sea of 'money' sloshing around the world, unregulated, unreported.. attached to synthetic financial instruments that artificially magnify its value.

It far exceeds the productive capacity of the world to absorb, and that is especially true of the de-industrialized West. Much of it is in currency derivatives, but it also is used to pile up debt and various unsupportable claims on securities as well.

In fact it demands new 'money' instruments of geometrically exploding size to contain its expectations and ensure rollovers. It would be impossible to control any mass redemption in an orderly way, hence massive inflation and a seizure of credit capability would result. The whole system is so unstable that any crisis could wash away the world's financial system.

I'd recommend All the Devils Are Here, an analysis of the 2008 mortgage collapse by MacLean and Norcia, as an inkling of how incompetent and coopted the regulatory agencies have become in controlling an imminent Global financial collapse.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
So anyway I thought that OP was a funny.

There is a sea of 'money' sloshing around the world, unregulated, unreported.. attached to synthetic financial instruments that artificially magnify its value.

It far exceeds the productive capacity of the world to absorb, and that is especially true of the de-industrialized West. Much of it is in currency derivatives, but it also is used to pile up debt and various unsupportable claims on securities as well.

In fact it demands new 'money' instruments of geometrically exploding size to contain its expectations and ensure rollovers. It would be impossible to control any mass redemption in an orderly way, hence massive inflation and a seizure of credit capability would result. The whole system is so unstable that any crisis could wash away the world's financial system.

I'd recommend All the Devils Are Here, an analysis of the 2008 mortgage collapse by MacLean and Norcia, as an inkling of how incompetent and coopted the regulatory agencies have become in controlling an imminent Global financial collapse.


It's irrational but efficient.