American Education
- Thread starter ironsides
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I suspect that if each US state was rated individually many of them would meet international standards. It is the states at the lower end of the test scores that drag the US average down. There is a solution, but it is one that many Americans might disagree with and that is to establish a national school system and fund each child equally. There would probably be a profound improvement in some areas.
Holy Crap! Are you trying to give the Tea Baggers a coronary? The federal government interfering with their right to be stupid! Gi' yur head a shake, eh!
That is a problem, each state treats education the way they want. The federal goverment sets some minimal standards and each state elaborates on them the way they want or can afford. You cannot compare the education one would get in the North East with someone from the South East. Teachers up North are paid very good salaries and fully supplied class rooms. In the South, teachers make much less money and have to buy school supplies out of their own pockets for class. The only thing that bothers be about a national school system is the efficiency ratings of goverment controlled anything compared with private.
Yup, governments are definitely not known for efficiency. And they cater to the whims of the corporate world and all they are interested in is a zombie class of mindless consumers. Can you say "lowest common denominator"?
Using your logic, Canadians would be less efficient and more focused on the whims of the corporate world, not to mention more zombie like mindless consumers compared to our southern neighbors. Do you really think that?
Stand out in any Cosco parking lot on any day of the week and you will find your answer.
This is what happens when you give out freedom to say whatever you like.
it's a great thing to have, freedom of Speech! it truly is, but with it comes a lot of nonsense and crazy luny crap that makes you roll your eyes and wonder how this person ever came to be!?
it's a great thing to have, freedom of Speech! it truly is, but with it comes a lot of nonsense and crazy luny crap that makes you roll your eyes and wonder how this person ever came to be!?
I think a person should be able to say WTF he wants as long as it causes no harm to others. :smile:
The quality of education varies a great deal from one school to another, throughout the USA. There is no national educational policy, each state is responsible for its own educational programs. Within each state, funding may vary a great deal from one school district to another, resulting in very uneven educational programs.
I can't speak for others, but in the elementary grades, I had world geography, world history, etc. While we did learn more about US History, we also studied World History, and we were very much aware of other countries, where they were, etc. I still have some of the maps I drew in those classes (and it is fascinating to see how many of those countries either no longer exist, or are vastly changed!).
Keep in mind that polls can easily be slanted by choosing the participants, slanting the questions, etc., etc. One of the first (and by far the single most valuable) course I took in college was "Research Design and methodology". I learned that the vast majority of "research" coming out of colleges and universities is not worth the paper it is printed on, that polls are routinely slanted, and that you have to take a VERY critical look at any published "research". Look at the motives behind the people publishing the "data".
Much of the research in colleges is done on college students (which do NOT reflect the population as a whole), utilizes very small numbers of students, and usually only from one campus, and then attempts to extrapolate the "data' to the entire population. It is a classic case of "garbage in - garbage out", as our computer nerds would phrase it.
I can guarantee you that the vast majority of US High School Graduates know where Canada and Mexico are located, know the difference between Europe and Asia (and the countries contained in those areas to a large degree). They may not give much of a damn about many opf those areas/countries, but they do know where they are located.
I can't speak for others, but in the elementary grades, I had world geography, world history, etc. While we did learn more about US History, we also studied World History, and we were very much aware of other countries, where they were, etc. I still have some of the maps I drew in those classes (and it is fascinating to see how many of those countries either no longer exist, or are vastly changed!).
Keep in mind that polls can easily be slanted by choosing the participants, slanting the questions, etc., etc. One of the first (and by far the single most valuable) course I took in college was "Research Design and methodology". I learned that the vast majority of "research" coming out of colleges and universities is not worth the paper it is printed on, that polls are routinely slanted, and that you have to take a VERY critical look at any published "research". Look at the motives behind the people publishing the "data".
Much of the research in colleges is done on college students (which do NOT reflect the population as a whole), utilizes very small numbers of students, and usually only from one campus, and then attempts to extrapolate the "data' to the entire population. It is a classic case of "garbage in - garbage out", as our computer nerds would phrase it.
I can guarantee you that the vast majority of US High School Graduates know where Canada and Mexico are located, know the difference between Europe and Asia (and the countries contained in those areas to a large degree). They may not give much of a damn about many opf those areas/countries, but they do know where they are located.
Apparently, every Chinese and Indian innovator comes from an American school now, lol. And not even a study or some junk stats to back that up.
Okay, now we're getting somewhere, but I'd like to see where in that study that the 'quality is so poor, most are not fit to work as engineers' or where it takes 2-3 years to achieve the same level of productivity. I read the study and there is no mention that the aggregate quality and productivity is bad or worse than U.S. based schools.
Also, love the blanket headline about education when the study is cherry picking engineering results between 3 countries. I guess that's the only field we need to care about and those are the only countries that matter.
I will agree that PISA rankings are difficult to compare, but none of the spin in that article can make anyone except the deluded patriots believe that Americans are somehow now the cream of the crop.
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Don't go to Costco but I don't think Canadians (or Europeans for that matter) are more "mindless consumers" than Americans and since that flies in the face of your statement, I was just wondering how you justify it.
Actually efficiency can be built into the system. In Alberta each school is funded with a per pupil grant of around $3000-$4000. That would give a school with 1000 students about $3,500,000 to spend. Most of the money is earmarked for salaries, but the remainder is spent by the administration. The principal is really now more of a money manager than anything else and generally consults with parents' groups before spending his discretionary cash. The system has worked fairly well for the last 15 years or so and rivals anything the private sector can do in terms of efficiency.
How many administrators per student does the school system have. Most systems that I am familiar with are very top heavy with administrators. (not counting teachers) Although with all the paper work they are required to do they could be lumped into that category.
One could argue too many but administration has only expanded because people expect more from school. It used to be that the only job of schools was to educate children. Right or wrong, that is no longer the case.
The number of administrative personnel would vary from district to district. However, the number of administrators is quite small due to the fact that most of the schools are pretty much semi-autonomous. The largest number of administrative personnel in an Alberta school division is associated with the school superintendent who is in charge of coordinating all educational activities within the school division. The only waste in the system is associated with the school board which is an elected institution that serves for three years. Since the board no longer has the power to tax it is somewhat superfluous, but is a holdover from the times school boards actually did something useful. However, eliminating school boards would have strong political repercussions and there has been no talk of such action.
With the exception in major cities. school boards pretty much work as an elected official receiving no pay. The administrations I was referring to are the top heavy office staffs and eminence personnel most schools have.
I am going to write something which will have my poor father rotating in heaven .... he was a labor organizer....
I honestly believe organizing teachers was a bad move intellectually because although it levels the benefit field, it takes competition out of the equation and all teachers must teach at the same level with each other regardless of personal supremacy in their field of work.
Now teachers can complete coursework for students - whether the students "get it" or not - and it has no effect on their job security. Once the work has been taught and covered and tested, that's it.
The students are being taught by rote and not all learning is at the same level - in a class of thirty students there could be five or six different modalities of learning and repetition is key - but teachers are rarely allowed to segregate the learning abilities because it is another 'rule' that students are not to be pointed out for their ability or lack thereof.
I honestly believe organizing teachers was a bad move intellectually because although it levels the benefit field, it takes competition out of the equation and all teachers must teach at the same level with each other regardless of personal supremacy in their field of work.
Now teachers can complete coursework for students - whether the students "get it" or not - and it has no effect on their job security. Once the work has been taught and covered and tested, that's it.
The students are being taught by rote and not all learning is at the same level - in a class of thirty students there could be five or six different modalities of learning and repetition is key - but teachers are rarely allowed to segregate the learning abilities because it is another 'rule' that students are not to be pointed out for their ability or lack thereof.