New Quebec group takes militant stance on sovereignty
- Thread starter Johnnny
- Start date
In a word, yes. I think the only ones that will fight decentralization is Ontario (because they are the center) and the Maritimes because they are afraid of getting off the government tit.
Party pooper!!!
Well the Bloc is obviously separatist and yes it receives money from the Feds because it represents citizens from Quebec on a federal level as do all other federal parties. And that is the beauty of Canada. Democracy is respected. Many Quebecers vote for the Bloc and the institutions of Canada see that this vote is represented and respected.
The Bloc in return plays by the rules of Canadian democracy. It's a democratic party and supports a democratic, not violent, way to achieve sovereignty.
It's all fair play to me. Is it unfair to you?
Except that pesky little rule that any federal party MUST run candidates in ALL provinces.
How is that? A political party exists simply to pander to Quebec. A province that hardly makes up a majority.
A party that legally shouldn't even exist.
Cool, they should do it on their own dime.
It sure is. Why should I pay to have a political party that doesn't even meet the standard, to sit on Parliament Hill and try to divide my country?
Not to mention, all the Natives in Quebec, that have almost unanimously said no to a sovereign Quebec. How are their democratic rights being up held? You and I both know, Quebec will want to keep Ruperts land. And that just ain't going to float with the local Injins.
Wasn't there a fun little comment made after the last referendum about "the ethnic vote"... In fact, I recall that the Bloc had their collective panties all in a bunch over the ability of the Natives to separate from Quebec via the identical mechanism that the Bloc was using.
Now, that's what I love about democracies.
I actually equated a sovereign Quebec to Animal Farm years ago. It didn't go over well.
LOL
I'm afraid that "pesty little rule" doesn't exist in Canada. Not in any law, not anywhere.
Are you purposefully being obtuse? I'm not comparing the Separtists to anyone. I said they threaten to leave, and you thought that was contentious. I said the Separtists are motivated by cultural differences, you disagreed and in subsequent posts affirmed that it is cultural distinctions.
So how does the use of Federalists using rhetoric in anyway support your objection that Separtists threaten to leave?
This is why to me you seem like an apologist. These are not contentious assertions at all, this is from the horse's mouth so to speak. It's on record....
How does that go against Canada's political system? Electors vote for someone to represent them in Parliament, and MPs have a right to be independent or to be part of a party. I see the Bloc as a coalition of independents who are there to defend Quebec's interest within the federation. We're all defending our interests by voting for who we vote for. Con or Lib or NPD voters aren't any different than Bloc voters in that regard.
So if you had it your way, you would jail Bloc members? Stop people from representing themselves as potential MPs for the reason that they are separatists?... Aren't you the one who was referring to Animal Farm? You want a Canada where non violent dissension is illegal?
Why doesn't Canada change the law about funding political parties if it's so pissed off by separatists in parliament? They've been there for the last 20 years for crying out loud. My answer is that while it is bitter to them, most Canadians accept the democratic choices of Quebecers, and it is to their honour. I've often said that separatism's worst enemy is Canada's tolerance towards it.
Can we agree to say that my tax dollars go to party I voted for and that your tax dollars go to the party you voted for? While Quebec does get equalization payments, you folks often seem to forget that Quebec citizens pay federal taxes too. So taxes payed by separatists end up paying for federalism. It goes both ways.
Now there's a point I can agree on. My biggest issue with separatism is its denial of problems that would follow a successful YES vote. It follows that if Canada is divisible, than so is Quebec. I wouldn't blame Natives for holding their own separatist referendums would Quebec ever become a country. To me this is clearly the weakest aspect of Quebec separatism. And this is why I tend to push towards massive decentralization for all provinces rather than Quebec's separation.
Before I reply s_lone. Please note...
I also take asking members of the Van Doos to fight for a sovereign Quebec, to be treasonous. Although I can't find the article to back that up at the moment.
Can we agree to say that my tax dollars go to party I voted for and that your tax dollars go to the party you voted for? [/quote]No.
Agreed. It's just that their stated goal, is actually illegal, as determined by the Supreme Court.
Absolutely, I take sedition serious.
I also take asking members of the Van Doos to fight for a sovereign Quebec, to be treasonous. Although I can't find the article to back that up at the moment.
Well ya. It's illegal.
Ya, because Quebec leaders remind me of the boys in charge. I can see my peeps as Piggy, if Quebec separates.
No, but you aren't talking about dissension, you're talking about succession. Which has been determined to be illegal by the Supreme Court.
To many pansies in power.
Can we agree to say that my tax dollars go to party I voted for and that your tax dollars go to the party you voted for? [/quote]No.
Because they enjoy the benefits of a Canadian passport, and still owe a large portion of debt. And of course there's those pesky equalization payments.
And that is why I still say you are the best and most brightest separatist I know, lol.
To be clear, CDNBear, the Supreme Court of Canada declared, in its wisdom, that unilateral secession is unlawful. However, the Supreme Court also left the door open for secession through a constitutional amendment carried out with the engagement of the Parliament of Canada and the provinces (this is the reason for the passage of the Clarity Act). It is not unlawful for the Bloc to advocate sovereignty, provided that they do not attempt to secede without the consent of Canada.
I understood that, but thanx.
I guess you missed the point, that they are in effect, actively perusing an illegal act. As Canada has not given its consent.
And I'm going out on a limb here, but I don't see a referendum saying it's ok, in the near or distant future.
No. I may be obtuse in your opinion. You decide.
What I first disagreed on is your use of the word ''belief'' when you said separatism stems from a belief in cultural distinctness. What I tried to explain is that it's not a question of ''believing'' in one's own difference from a Quebec separatist's point of view, but actually living and feeling the difference. I absolutely agree with you that we are all culturally distinct from one ocean to another. But for reasons that are largely rooted in history and the linguistic barrier, Quebec separatists don't identify to the country of Canada and this to me is the root cause of Quebec separatism.
There's a difference between the feeling of being threatened and an actual threat. I could feel threatened if I meet a very tall and strong punk in the street at 3am but the guy could be the nicest guy around. In other words, I wouldn't be right to feel threatened. So when you say Quebec is constantly threatening to leave, I see that as saying that Canada always feels threatened by Quebec's nationalist tendency to fight for its independence.
Both sides use rhetoric to further their agendas. Do you agree?
I think it's safe to say a solid portion of Quebecers (at least 35-40%) are convinced separatists. While another 15-20% is rather ambiguous about it (like me). Considering the fact that the whole issue can easily become emotional and that given the right circumstances, support for separatism can potentially and relatively easily rise over 50% (like right after the sponsorship scandal), I can agree with you that yes, there is a constant threat of Quebec leaving. But I think you're confusing your own sense of feeling threatened by the actual threats. The only real threats were 1980 and 1995. Beyond that, Quebec is just being Quebec, vocal about it's independence. If you feel threatened by that, then that's yours to deal with. But I don't see any sense of accusing Quebec of constantly threatening and blackmailing Canada when all we're doing is our best to find our place in Canada like all other provinces.
The PQ has a pretty good chance of winning the next provincial elections. But that would mostly be because the Quebec Liberals are plagued with a reputation of corruption right now. The problem is that without the Liberals, there are no other federalist alternatives except the ADQ, who are too much to the right of the political spectrum to gain wide spread approval among Quebecers. Of course, the rest of Canadians would probably interpret another PQ victory as yet another threat from the separatists. But they would fail to see that Quebecers really just want to get rid of a corrupt party (the Liberals). The PQ may be a separatist party, they still have to win a referendum in order to achieve their goals. And Quebecers know that. It can simply be a vote for the party that represents best one's political opinions (in terms of left vs. right). Quebecers know the difference.
I have a pretty good grasp of English but some expressions are unknown to me (horse's mouth...?). I'm mot too sure what you're trying to say.
What exactly do you mean by saying I'm an apologist?
By this definition:
a person who makes a defense in speech or writing of a belief, idea, etc.
Aren't we all apologists?
Last edited:
i am tired of all this separation talk. I am an ethnic English speaking Canadian that was born and raised in montreal. My whole life i was terrorized and told to speak french., we are in Quebec blah blah. I love living here but the ignorance that some Quebecers have upsets me. Don;t you realize that we have an advantage here. We have the opportunity to learn and speak two languages. Why close your eyes to enhancing your possibilities learning languages are a bonus. I speak four languages and i am proud, french being one of them. Quebecers should stop talking separation and start taking English classes learn the international language , everyone speaks English no matter where you go. Why deprive yourselves of communicating and travelling. There are so many possiblites out there.Stop Quebec is part of Canada and many Quebecers fail to remember that.
A fellow Canadian who just wants to feel like im at home, here in Quebec.
A fellow Canadian who just wants to feel like im at home, here in Quebec.