Oklahoma bans sharia law

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
Actually it wasn't just Sharia law that Oklahoma tried to ban, it was also "International Law". They're not just arbitrary choices they decided to pick out of the blue to legislate against, either. Obama is big on International law, and a recent case in New Jersey took into account Sharia standards in a rape case against a husband. A higher court overturned that, but will it next time?

That's what Oklahomans don't want happening in their state. It's their right to not want that happening in their state.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Problem with Sharia law is that it is not consistent. Which of the 4 main schools would one chose, personally if I had to give them a Sharia law to follow it probably would be Hanifi which they say is the most liberal. I haven't the foggiest idea about any of them in depth though. Do not think anyone in the administration does either. Oklahomans just did what our goverment wouldn't.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
This seems a pointless issue, anyway.

I agree, it shouldn't really matter. It's basically a law that says the only law of Oklahoma is the law of Oklahoma. Shouldn't really be controversial. If anyone feels left out I'm sure Oklahomans would be more than happy to ban their law also.
 

selin

Electoral Member
Feb 8, 2010
510
6
18
38
Turkey
All people in a state should be governed by same laws.
Shariah laws(so-called interpretation of Kuran )refer to only some Muslim. That issue brings the discrimination in some cases when judging someone-in modern time, laws are superior to laws of any religion in the name of equality.
 
Last edited:

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Absolutely it does.
It absolutely does not. Specifically Canon or Beth Din, do not hold the basis for the support or condoning of sedition. Sharia demands that itself be the higher law, while Beth Din demands that the law of the land be the higher law.

If someone can use Jewish ecclesiastical law to arbitrate, but they can't use Muslim ecclesiastical law to arbitrate, the law is favouring religions, or if you want unfavouring a religion. That, has been ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. There's even a test, called the Lemon Test.
And you fail the Lemon test Ton.

1, There is no religious intention behind the banning. The legislature didn't ban it in favour of Beth Din or Canon. It banned it in favour of enforcing the supremacy of Constitutional law. Where equality is the higher standard.

2, The banning of Sharia neither advances nor inhibits any religion. Islam is free to be practiced in the US. Sharia, is not part of the Quran. It is a separate interpretation of Allah's laws by men.

3, The banning does not create an entanglement of government, it actually goes the opposite way.

Irrelevant.
Hardly. As I already said, Beth Din and Canon, as practiced by their specific communities, do not tread on criminal territory, whereas Sharia does. Beth Din and Canon accept the higher authority of Constitutional law. Whereas Sharia does not recognize any higher authority.

In granting permission to Sharia law to operate as autonomously as Beth Din and Canon courts do, the legislature would be in fact, be granting a greater religious legal power to Islamic courts.

Obviously you can't choose which states laws you will adhere to.
Which Sharia, in it's most mildest intent, does. Sharia sees itself as the higher law. Beth Din and Canon Courts do not.
In your attempt to troll, I bet you never thought of that.
:lol:
Hardly...If I was trolling, I wouldn't have put as much effort into it.

Sharia has no foundation in the Quran. Canon, has written foundation in the Bible, Beth Din in the Talmud. Furthermore, because of its tenets, Sharia is a clear and present danger to Constitutional law. Whereas it recognizes the will of Allah is superior to any other law, by broad interpretation. As well as the use of violence to enact it. Beth Din and Canon recognize the supremacy of the Constitution and do not have any acts or tenets that condone the use of violence to enforce the rule of either law. Both Beth Din and Canon, are a community accepted arbitration, where Sharia seeks to reestablish itself as the higher law, by its own virtue.

You really should read Ironsides link.

Since Islamic law reflects the will of [Allah] rather than the will of a human lawmaker, it covers all areas of life and not simply those which are of interest to a secular state or society. It is not limited to questions of belief and religious practice, but also deals with criminal and constitution (sic) matters, as well as many other fields which in other societies would be regarded as the concern of the secular authorities. In an Islamic context there is no such thing as a separate secular authority and secular law, since religion and state are one. Essentially, the Islamic state as conceived by orthodox Muslims is a religious entity established under divine law.[5]

Besides all that, all that Oklahoma did was ban State Courts from using Sharia Law in rulings. Which is perfectly acceptable, since Beth Din is not enforced by the State.
 
Last edited:

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
I personally would agree to a ban on certain parts of Sharia that might cause some serious discord or threat to the lives of innocent people of the state. Anything that doesn't satisfy those conditions can obviously stay. In order to do this, everyone has to understand the tenets of such law in their entirety. As it stands now, the entire concept is being thrown in one direction or another because we propose either an entire ban or unfettered freedom of enactment.

Like immigration, there are many shades of gray -- and a thorough analysis of what is actually harmful vs. what is benign to us should be used as a pragmatic filter, rather than ideologically falling back on the constitution as the rule of thumb.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I personally would agree to a ban on certain parts of Sharia that might cause some serious discord or threat to the lives of innocent people of the state. Anything that doesn't satisfy those conditions can obviously stay. In order to do this, everyone has to understand the tenets of such law in their entirety. As it stands now, the entire concept is being thrown in one direction or another because we propose either an entire ban or unfettered freedom of enactment.
The problem lies in the fact that it won't stop there, we only need look to England and the bulk of the EU for that.

Like immigration, there are many shades of gray -- and a thorough analysis of what is actually harmful vs. what is benign to us should be used as a pragmatic filter, rather than ideologically falling back on the constitution as the rule of thumb.
Shades of grey?

Talmud...The law of the land over rules Jewish law.

Sharia...The Law of Allah is the only law, and we will kill to enforce it.

No grey there, but I do like your thoughts on not blindly falling back on the Constitution. Very wise.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
As long as the Sharia law does not interfere with a persons rights in the U.S. or Canada, it may be all right to practice. Pretty much every religion has their own laws and in most cases are just that religious laws which a person can chose to accept or not. Anyone breaking civil law on the other hand cannot/should not be protected by any religious law.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
As long as the Sharia law does not interfere with a persons rights in the U.S. or Canada, it may be all right to practice. Pretty much every religion has their own laws and in most cases are just that religious laws which a person can chose to accept or not. Anyone breaking civil law on the other hand cannot/should not be protected by any religious law.

Pretty much. But the determination has to be made whether muslims will only be satisfied with complete acceptance of sharia law, or if there are bits that can be accepted without reflecting a change that would break a civil law or cause serious harm. Also, this notion that accepting any muslim culture will begin a slippery slope to civil disaster is just christian fear mongering. It's the same people that are worried that Toys R' Us won't plaster "Merry Christmas" on their front window.

For shame.