Arizona's Immigration Law

[ironsides]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the federal immigration law, ironsides. And efforts must be made to keep the illegals out. I have said before, you people are crazy to let in so many illegal immigrants.

The question is whether Arizona law will solve anything. I don't think it will, it will simply lead to worsening of race relations in USA (relations between browns and whites).

I don't think anything we do except total capitulation to their demands will solve the problem without some sort of conflict. The only solution I can see is finish the border fence (something like Israel has) and seriously patrol it. (constant air patrols as well as active pursuits of individuals sneaking across.) It would at the least generate jobs.

 

[ironsides]

 

[YukonJack]

When you discover a water leak in your house, What do you do first?

Plug the crack on the pipe with chewing gum?
Cover it up with duct tape?
Pretend it does not exist?

OR do you shut off the main water valve?

If the border between the United States and either of its neighbours is not secured, the present problems of illegal "immigration" (more like criminal intrusion) will not be fixed.

Learn from the undisputed success of the former Communist countries: watch towers every 200 yards, land mines and shoot on sight.

 

[YukonJack]

Would you be upset if you were told to remove a T-shirt with the Maple Leaf on it, while you were in Canada? Would you consider that demand racist, unfair and totally unreasonable?

Well, then how do you feel about this:

Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees | NBC Bay Area

 

[TenPenny]

"But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday."

That's just plain idiotic. I think someone forgot where they were.

 

[YukonJack]

TenPenny, responding to your post #205:

No, these despicable yahooes have NOT forgotten where they were, in fact they were fully aware of it.

They were in the United States, where free speech is still allowed, even though it is going to suicidal lenghts.

If those yahooes had protested someone wearing a T-shirt displaying the Mexican flag in Mexico, they would be in jail.

If the same yahooes were protesting someone wearing a T-shirt displaying a hammer-and-sickle in Russia, they would be in the modern version of Lyubyanka Prison.

If they protested someone wearing a T-shirt with Che, in Cuba, or a T-shirt displaying Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, they would be DEAD.

Not to mention China, where a protest of someone wearing a T-shirt with the image of Mao Tse Tung would not only earn the "offender" a shot on the back of the head, but also his/her survivors having to pay for the bullet.

So, if these yahooes do not like America, let them go back where they can celebrate Cinco de Mayo any way they want.

 

[YukonJack]

Further to my previous post:

Townhall.com Blog : Meredith Jessup : Bay Area Students Punished for Sporting American Flag on Cinco de Mayo

 

[Icarus27k]

More about crime in border regions of the US, from The Arizona Republic:

FBI Uniform Crime Reports and statistics provided by police agencies, in fact show that the crime rates in Nogales, Douglas, Yuma and other Arizona border towns have remained essientually flat for the past decade, even as drug-related violence has spirialed out of control on the otherside of the international line. Statewide, rates of violent crime are also down.

...

In fact, according to the Border Control, [Cochise County rancher Robert] Krentz is the only American murdered by a suspected illegal immigrant in at least a decade within the agency's Tucson sector, the busiest smuggling route among the Border Control's nine coverage regions along the U.S.-Mexico border.

...

Juarez, Mexico, is widely regarded as the 'deadliest city in the world' because of an estimated 5000 murders in recent years. Yet right across the border, El Paso, Texas, is listed as one of the safest towns in America."


Violence is not up on Arizona border despite Mexican drug war

 

[EagleSmack]

During FDR's administration our immigration laws were passed. Arizona did not change anything, they just started enforcing a federal law that the goverment was not enforcing. Arizona is just obeying the law. President Obama, Clinton as well as Bush refused to enforce it (thus they broke the law). Once again, just enforce the laws already in place, and close the border if needed. You do not need a fence for all its length, most of the unprotected area's are arid desert, fairly easy to patrol with aircraft.
This law is not a republican or democratic issue, never was, just everyone ignored it..

This is so true. Immigration Laws are simply ignored. In fact my own Liberal State Massachusetts tries repeatedly to give illegal immigrants free in-state college tuition. That's right...free tuition! All Mass residents must pay and our do-good legislature wants to give people who are here illegally free college on top of the free medical care they automatically get plus other benefits.

And they wonder why folks are frustrated.

 

[Icarus27k]

TenPenny, responding to your post #205:

No, these despicable yahooes have NOT forgotten where they were, in fact they were fully aware of it.

They were in the United States, where free speech is still allowed, even though it is going to suicidal lenghts.

If those yahooes had protested someone wearing a T-shirt displaying the Mexican flag in Mexico, they would be in jail.

If the same yahooes were protesting someone wearing a T-shirt displaying a hammer-and-sickle in Russia, they would be in the modern version of Lyubyanka Prison.

If they protested someone wearing a T-shirt with Che, in Cuba, or a T-shirt displaying Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, they would be DEAD.

Not to mention China, where a protest of someone wearing a T-shirt with the image of Mao Tse Tung would not only earn the "offender" a shot on the back of the head, but also his/her survivors having to pay for the bullet.

So, if these yahooes do not like America, let them go back where they can celebrate Cinco de Mayo any way they want.

Actually, free speech is only allowed in US schools to the extent that the administrators allow it. I think there's even a US court case about this. As someone who graduated high school in the past decade, I know all about the saying, "Your freedom stops at the school enterance."

Some schools are really strict and make students wear uniforms while other care little about what students wear. In the US system, the school officials were within their right.

 

[FreeQuebec]

I don't blame them for wanting to keep illegals out. Especially Mexican illegals who do not assimilate into American culture. If you don't speak English, you have no business living in USA.

 

[Machjo]

As long as you continue to have such wealth disparity between the US and Mexico, this problem will persist. Nothing short of some kind of Marshall Plan will solve this.

 

[Machjo]

I don't blame them for wanting to keep illegals out. Especially Mexican illegals who do not assimilate into American culture. If you don't speak English, you have no business living in USA.

Agreed. I'm not condoning what they're doing, but on a practical level, if we're looking for a solution, I think making the border tougher to cross will not on its own solve the problem.

 

[FreeQuebec]

Agreed. I'm not condoning what they're doing, but on a practical level, if we're looking for a solution, I think making the border tougher to cross will not on its own solve the problem.

Why don't they take the troops out of Iraq and station them along the border? Or build a giant concrete wall? Both are viable. If the ancient Chinese can built the massive Great Wall of China, surely modern Americans can build a much smaller wall across Mexico/US border?

 

[Machjo]

I remember reading in Sun Tsu's the Art of War a long time ago that you must always give the enemy a option, be it safe surrender, a means of safe escape, etc. or else it will fight you to the death, to the last man, if it believes it's either that or die.

If we apply this to Mexico, we must do something similar. The options we could give them could involve freer trade between the countries (so they don't need to cross the border into the US to trade with the US), freer labour movement for those who know English and can find work (so they could work legally in the US with an understanding that they'll have to go back to Mexico once they no longer work in the US), and other such strategies to give them hope in their own country. Without that, they'll keep on border hopping.

 

[Machjo]

Why don't they take the troops out of Iraq and station them along the border?

That could be a good idea.

Or build a giant concrete wall? Both are viable. If the ancient Chinese can built the massive Great Wall of China, surely modern Americans can build a much smaller wall across Mexico/US border?

And did that stop Genghis Khan?

 

[FreeQuebec]

I remember reading in Sun Tsu's the Art of War a long time ago that you must always give the enemy a option, be it safe surrender, a means of safe escape, etc. or else it will fight you to the death, to the last man, if it believes it's either that or die.

If we apply this to Mexico, we must do something similar. The options we could give them could involve freer trade between the countries (so they don't need to cross the border into the US to trade with the US), freer labour movement for those who know English and can find work (so they could work legally in the US with an understanding that they'll have to go back to Mexico once they no longer work in the US), and other such strategies to give them hope in their own country. Without that, they'll keep on border hopping.

I hate NAFTA and wish it would die. The last thing we need is more free trade. In fact, I support further restricting free trade and eliminating NAFTA altogether. But if you want to allow these people to come to Canada, those who hate you and are general scum, go ahead.

I know good Mexicans, and good Mexicans have no business illegally entering other countries. Anyone who does that is scum and deserves contempt. If you can't fix your own country, and have to run away to a better country, you don't deserve anything.

There is no reason they can't open a business in Mexico or work for an existing business in Mexico. If you really want to fix this problem, fix the corrupt Mexican government, legalize drugs to destroy the drug cartels, and then you will have a flourishing Mexican economy.

They have the natural resources to be a prosperous 1st world nation, but they have too many lazy/stupid people, and too corrupt a government to apply it. Sad, but that is reality.

Catering to the scum that want to run to USA and Canada instead of fixing their own country is the last thing we should do.

 

[Machjo]

Let's put it this way. Imagine the town of Weston is 10 times wealthier than the town of Easton, and they border each other with nothing more than a line in the road. Do you honestly think any kind of intervention will stop the flow of job seekers from Easton to Weston?Now if the wealth gap is no more than let's say 2 to 1, maybe not so bad. but when it's 10 to 1 or maybe even 20 to 1, some will risk their lives for it.

 

[FreeQuebec]

That could be a good idea.

Indeed.

And did that stop Genghis Khan?

It largely reduced Mongolian raids, yes. If it just slows them down it is effective.

 

[YukonJack]

FreeQuebec, the poor, exploited minority representative cried:

"I don't blame them for wanting to keep illegals out. Especially Mexican illegals who do not assimilate into American culture. If you don't speak English, you have no business living in USA."

If they are illegals, why should they have ANY right? If they are illegals, why should they not be rounded up and deported? If they refuse to speak the language of the country they illegally sneaked into - which is regrettably not yet ENGLISH - why should they be allowed to stay and take advantage of the education system. If they are illegals, Why should their children be Legal?

But FreeQuebec is right: if you don't speak English and refuse to learn it, you have no business living in the United States.