Obamacare Passes!!!

[TenPenny]

Health Insurance has always been out there for people that want it. It was never exclusive to the wealthy or the poor. It was easier for people who belong to a company to get it as it is a group plan.

Now the "common man" as Socrates has put it will be mandated to pay whether he wants to or not. And the IRS will ensure that he does.

The government will decide if you need subsidies or not. Unless you are working poor you are most likely going to have pay that full amount. What one considers a struggle with regards to income and what the government thinks are far apart. The common man is going to get a new shiny bill each month when this thing gets rolling and the IRS will ensure it gets paid.

That's what we do in Canada, except the monthly bill is paid in taxes on everything we do, a bit at a time.

It works out okay, we're doing fine.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

My comment about Obama's promise to wait 5 days was a comment about his promise to wait 5 days. For some psychotic reason, you take this to mean that I want people to die waiting for the miraculous health coverage that would have appeared in the 5 day wait period.

I figured that if you could invent bizarre and psychotic interpretations of what I said, based on your own mental issues, then I would do the same with what you said.

look play with words all you want, Obama rushed to sing the bill because the Republicans are not to be trusted. “suffering from premature ejaculation” on a serious issue as such is no laughing matter.
Make your self clear when you speak, and you can be sure I do not have mental issues.

 

[CDNBear]

Bla bal bLA = Crap

Ya, that's about all one would expect from someone that hasn't a full grasp on the situation.

Here Soc puppet, read what ES has to say and see if you can allow a little information to penetrate that silly little head of yours.

Now the "common man" as Socrates has put it will be mandated to pay whether he wants to or not. And the IRS will ensure that he does.

The government will decide if you need subsidies or not. Unless you are working poor you are most likely going to have pay that full amount. What one considers a struggle with regards to income and what the government thinks are far apart. The common man is going to get a new shiny bill each month when this thing gets rolling and the IRS will ensure it gets paid.

 

[EagleSmack]

But where does the money come from for his procedure prior to him paying it back? Does the government pay the hospital for their services then collect from him (assuming he will pay installments)? Is it the hospital? What if he doesn't pay it back, who is covering it?

You needed treatment and got treatment. The hospital will not ask for money upfront if you are ill or injured. You are going to get treated. If you have no insurance the hospital or clinic sends you a bill. You need to pay it. Unless you are poor and on Medicare the government has nothing to do with it.

If he gets a bill and just decides not to pay it the bill will eventually go to a collection agency and he will have collectors hounding him for the money until it gets paid.

 

[CDNBear]

That's what we do in Canada, except the monthly bill is paid in taxes on everything we do, a bit at a time.

It works out okay, we're doing fine.

It would work for the US too, as best as it does, if they adopted the same thing. Which they didn't.

 

[Kreskin]

Health Insurance has always been out there for people that want it. It was never exclusive to the wealthy or the poor. It was easier for people who belong to a company to get it as it is a group plan.

Now the "common man" as Socrates has put it will be mandated to pay whether he wants to or not. And the IRS will ensure that he does.

The government will decide if you need subsidies or not. Unless you are working poor you are most likely going to have pay that full amount. What one considers a struggle with regards to income and what the government thinks are far apart. The common man is going to get a new shiny bill each month when this thing gets rolling and the IRS will ensure it gets paid.

Why would it be acceptable for people to have no coverage? Insurance is for things that can't be diversified in other ways. The average common man can't risk the cost of a heart transplant any more than he can of his house burning down. I certainly wouldn't want our government to rebuild everyone's uninsured burnt down homes then send out bills that will never get paid. This isn't simply about him taking risks, it's everyone else financing his risk and paying his bills if he can't.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Ya, that's about all one would expect from someone that hasn't a full grasp on the situation.

Here Soc puppet, read what ES has to say and see if you can allow a little information to penetrate that silly little head of yours.

Is that why the bill passed? keep in mind Eagle S, IS A Republican...
Also keep the name calling out of this.
Just remember what your beloved Government did for your people, instead of medicine he offered them body bags.......

 

[CDNBear]

Is that why the bill passed?

It passed because some people will reap millions, while the populace thinks it's getting a great deal.

keep in mind Eagle S, IS A Republican...

Ya so?

Also keep the name calling out of this.

LMAO!!! Ya, if only you weren't such a dick, I might have been able to.

Just remember what your beloved Government did for your people, instead of medicine he offered them body bags.......

My beloved Gov't? I see living in reality is something you do.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

It passed because some people will reap millions, while the populace thinks it's getting a great deal.

Ya so?
LMAO!!! Ya, if only you weren't such a dick, I might have been able to.
My beloved Gov't? I see living in reality is something you do.

psssssssssssssssssst

 

[Machjo]

Health Insurance has always been out there for people that want it. It was never exclusive to the wealthy or the poor. It was easier for people who belong to a company to get it as it is a group plan.

Now the "common man" as Socrates has put it will be mandated to pay whether he wants to or not. And the IRS will ensure that he does.

The government will decide if you need subsidies or not. Unless you are working poor you are most likely going to have pay that full amount. What one considers a struggle with regards to income and what the government thinks are far apart. The common man is going to get a new shiny bill each month when this thing gets rolling and the IRS will ensure it gets paid.

Now I do have one concern with the 'Obama plan'. In many countries with universal health care, you have a pubic option required to offer essential services without the frills and gimmicks of comfort and luxury, for those who cannot afford the more luxurious private options.

Other countries that offer universal healthcare that do not have a public option at least regulate the hospitals enough to ensure that they do not impose luxury healthcare without the patient's consent, and are required to provide a basic no frills no gimmicks option for those who want it, with more expensive luxury packages being optional.

With the Obama plan, I've not heard anything of any regulation of hospitals to ensure they stick to the business of health care and not dwell excessively on luxury health care. If all the Obama plan does is impose the purchase of health care on the poor without any commensurate regulation of hospitals to ensure they stick to the basics except for those who request the extras, then that's just going to place and even greater burden on the poor.

honestly, I'm ignorant of the Obama plan and maybe it does include such regulation. If id does, then maybe it's not such a bad plan after all. If it doesn't, then it's worse than before in that now it's imposing luxury healthcare onto those who can't afford it.

Does anyone know the details of that plan?

 

[CDNBear]

psssssssssssssssssst

Did your head spring a leak?

 

[Machjo]

You needed treatment and got treatment. The hospital will not ask for money upfront if you are ill or injured. You are going to get treated. If you have no insurance the hospital or clinic sends you a bill. You need to pay it. Unless you are poor and on Medicare the government has nothing to do with it.

If he gets a bill and just decides not to pay it the bill will eventually go to a collection agency and he will have collectors hounding him for the money until it gets paid.

And since he has nothing to lose anyway, he declares bankruptcy, and the hospital swallows the cost and passes it on to the insurance company which in its turn passes it on to its clients.

I guess if the law requires a hospital to provide essential services regardless of ability to pay, then the US technically had universal coverage already, with those purchasing insurance essentially footing the bill for those who couldn't pay for their healthcare. So what will be the difference now with this new bill?

Also, do foreigners visiting the US require insurance before crossing the border?

 

[EagleSmack]

Why would it be acceptable for people to have no coverage?

Personally I think it is crazy for someone NOT to have health insurance. However it was not mandatory until the other day or at least until this thing gets rolling.

Some people just say...

"Screw it... I'm not paying an extra $500 dollars a month to some insurance company when I've never seen the inside of a hospital."

Now they will have to pay that $500 a month and the IRS will hunt them down and levy penalties if they don't.

Insurance is for things that can't be diversified in other ways. The average common man can't risk the cost of a heart transplant any more than he can of his house burning down. I certainly wouldn't want our government to rebuild everyone's uninsured burnt down homes then send out bills that will never get paid. This isn't simply about him taking risks, it's everyone else financing his risk and paying his bills if he can't.

Well the insured have always covered the costs of the uninsured through higher hospital costs and ever growing premiums. However if you didn't have health insurance and had means to pay the hospitals were going to get paid one way or the other.

But that does not mean my premium is going down. It will most likely go up and believe me, I don't have a Cadillac Plan. I have a simple Blue Cross/Blue Shield Family Plan offered through my company.

 

[EagleSmack]

And since he has nothing to lose anyway, he declares bankruptcy, and the hospital swallows the cost and passes it on to the insurance company which in its turn passes it on to its clients.

That is true. But hospitals aren't that unprepared. The cost of hospital care is high to begin with. But you are right...the cost is passed on to people who have insurance.

I guess if the law requires a hospital to provide essential services regardless of ability to pay, then the US technically had universal coverage already, with those purchasing insurance essentially footing the bill for those who couldn't pay for their healthcare. So what will be the difference now with this new bill?

I think it is the mandate thing. The government is forcing everyone to have insurance. But it is also the cost of adding 37 million (or so) on to the rolls which is already going to raise premiums and taxes.

Also, do foreigners visiting the US require insurance before crossing the border?

Heck no! Come on down and walk into an Emergency Room and you'll get treated.

Need a ride? Call an ambulance and save yourself the cab fare. People on medicare do it all the time.

 

[CDNBear]

But that does not mean my premium is going down. It will most likely go up and believe me, I don't have a Cadillac Plan. I have a simple Blue Cross/Blue Shield Family Plan offered through my company.

I was going to throw that out there. That those with coverage as of today, will not see a decrease in their premiums. And when the Gov't enacts this "group" thing, I can see somebody covering the short fall somewhere.

 

[EagleSmack]

Now I do have one concern with the 'Obama plan'. In many countries with universal health care, you have a pubic option required to offer essential services without the frills and gimmicks of comfort and luxury, for those who cannot afford the more luxurious private options.

Other countries that offer universal healthcare that do not have a public option at least regulate the hospitals enough to ensure that they do not impose luxury healthcare without the patient's consent, and are required to provide a basic no frills no gimmicks option for those who want it, with more expensive luxury packages being optional.

With the Obama plan, I've not heard anything of any regulation of hospitals to ensure they stick to the business of health care and not dwell excessively on luxury health care. If all the Obama plan does is impose the purchase of health care on the poor without any commensurate regulation of hospitals to ensure they stick to the basics except for those who request the extras, then that's just going to place and even greater burden on the poor.

honestly, I'm ignorant of the Obama plan and maybe it does include such regulation. If id does, then maybe it's not such a bad plan after all. If it doesn't, then it's worse than before in that now it's imposing luxury healthcare onto those who can't afford it.

Does anyone know the details of that plan?

This is one of the issues that have people upset. I am sketchy on the details as well but I know that when the government deals with hospitals (Through Medicare) they basically won't pay the whole bill. They fight with hospitals. The hospitals THEN pass on the costs to health insurance companies and then it gets passed onto the people with health insurance.

This is where government regulation may come into play. The government will simply regulate who gets what. That is one fear. It is too early to tell at this point how much regulation will be but if costs spiral even more out of control and the government has a stake (with subsidies) they are going to have something to say about it.

 

[Machjo]

That is true. But hospitals aren't that unprepared. The cost of hospital care is high to begin with. But you are right...the cost is passed on to people who have insurance.

So is it fair that people with insurance foot the bill for those who don't?

I think it is the mandate thing. The government is forcing everyone to have insurance. But it is also the cost of adding 37 million (or so) on to the rolls which is already going to raise premiums and taxes.

If you require everyone to buy insurance, then you're ensuring that when a person needs care, he'll actually have contributed to it himself rather than just declaring bankruptcy and passing the bill on to you. That would save you money and probably bring down your insurance premiums since now everyone would be contributing.

As for taxes, you are right that those who can't afford the insurance will have to have it paid for by the government. So taxes would go up while insurance costs would go down. My guess is though that taxes would go up more than insurance costs would go down since those who can't afford the insurance would have it paid for in tax dollars. Though I could be wrong on that front too if the bill also includes ways of cutting the fat out of luxury health care.

Heck no! Come on down and walk into an Emergency Room and you'll get treated.

Need a ride? Call an ambulance and save yourself the cab fare. People on medicare do it all the time.

Actually, though I'm still undecided on this, I think there would be a legitimate argument to make health insurance coverage legally binding on all persons travelling to the US so as to ensure they pay their own way healthcare-wise.

 

[EagleSmack]

I was going to throw that out there. That those with coverage as of today, will not see a decrease in their premiums. And when the Gov't enacts this "group" thing, I can see somebody covering the short fall somewhere.

The people with the Cadillac plans WILL pay a bundle more but they are most likely to have the money to begin with so it won't affect them at all.

However, the US Congress has made themselves exempt from any of this so they will be all set if any of you folks were worried about them. :lol:

 

[lone wolf]

I like the idea that folks might not go broke to stay alive. I don't like that they have to trust people not quite ethical enough to be bankers with the money. Ontario drivers saw what happened when car insurance became mandatory - but without reins - then another government made it no-fault so they could rake in more profit. At least you get to vote out a government.

 

[CDNBear]

I like the idea that folks might not go broke to stay alive. I don't like that they have to trust people not quite ethical enough to be bankers with the money. Ontario drivers saw what happened when car insurance became mandatory - but without reins - then another government made it no-fault so they could rake in more profit. At least you get to vote out a government.

To bad you can't vote out their legislation with them.