The embarrassment of the apostle

[eanassir]

Same kind of evidence you claim for your prophet, a bunch of texts he authored, many of them written while he was imprisoned for over two decades by the followers of your prophet, essentially for heresy. And in Bahá'u'lláh's case, it's historically proven that he wrote them personally, he wasn't taking dictation from angels for others to record. Also, Bahá'u'lláh's life, being about 12 centuries more recent than Mohamed's, is much better documented. The case for his being a prophet is at least as good as yours for Mohamed. He also appears to have been a much nicer person, with a much kinder and more forgiving view of what god expects of us.

This is an evasion obviously; because I asked him what is the evidence to his prophecy, but neither did you nor did he give the answer.

Moreover, you cannot mix things by claiming he is more recent; it is not necessarily the new is more truthful than the old.

But the evident thing is that he is nearer to your desire, and you like such one: it means the atheist and the disbeliever likes him.

And this, you buy; but will not buy the Quran inviting people to God alone without associate and that all the prophets are the servants of God Almighty.

As in the Quran 2: 16

أُوْلَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ اشْتَرُوُاْ الضَّلاَلَةَ بِالْهُدَى فَمَا رَبِحَت تِّجَارَتُهُمْ وَمَا كَانُواْ مُهْتَدِينَ​

The explanation:
(Such are they who exchange [lit. buy] error instead of guidance, so their commerce does not prosper, neither are they guided.)​

And the Quran stands alone, while all atheists, associaters and idolaters are in one trench against God and His apostle Mohammed and His Quran.

http://www.quran-ayat.com/​

 

[MHz]

Cliffy is also right,everyone should have his/her own path to reach anything.

Take the path that doesn't include death ....... or do we only have partial control over the 'path'. That there is such a thing would seem to have been established long before anybody started the journey down the 'path of life'.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

This is an evasion obviously; because I asked him what is the evidence to his prophecy, but neither did you nor did he give the answer.

That's not what you asked. You didn't ask for evidence of prophecy (there isn't any), you asked what is the evidence that Bahá'u'lláh's a prophet, and the answer is the texts that make that claim. That's exactly the same kind of evidence there is for your claims about your prophet, and claims about biblical prophets. None of them were provably right about anything important, and they were provably wrong about lots of things. Might as well rely on Nostradamus as any of those guys.

 

[Cliffy]

eanassir, You are a little confused. You said that the Quran was more truthful and the Mohammad was better because they came after Jesus and the bible. I did not say that Bahá'u'lláh or Baha'i faith was better, I said "by your reasoning" that since the Baha'i faith was newer, that I did not understand why you reject it out of hand without even looking at it.

I have never read the Quran or the writings of Bahá'u'lláh. I have no interest in reading them. I have my own path to follow. I am just asking you to look at other writings because you are so ridgid in your beliefs and condemning of others that you do not understand. I am asking you to open up your mind to the possibility that others may be right too. You are not the only person on earth that is on a path. Others may be on the right path for them.

 

[gerryh]

I have never read the Quran or the writings of Bahá'u'lláh. I have no interest in reading them. I have my own path to follow. I am just asking you to look at other writings because you are so ridgid in your beliefs and condemning of others that you do not understand. I am asking you to open up your mind to the possibility that others may be right too. You are not the only person on earth that is on a path. Others may be on the right path for them.

What a hypocritic.

 

[eanassir]

That's not what you asked. You didn't ask for evidence of prophecy (there isn't any), you asked what is the evidence that Bahá'u'lláh's a prophet, and the answer is the texts that make that claim. That's exactly the same kind of evidence there is for your claims about your prophet, and claims about biblical prophets. None of them were provably right about anything important, and they were provably wrong about lots of things. Might as well rely on Nostradamus as any of those guys.

So you know very well what I meant by my question.

The word نبوة in Arabic means "prophecy" and "prophet-hood"; what I mean actually is the "prophethood"; and was this man a true prophet or false one: deluded by Satan, or confused or an impostor.

And this was my question: because Cliffy said the Bahai is good and came recently and newer than Mohammed; so I asked him what is the evidence to his prophecy: and I meant to his prophet-hood: was he a true prophet then he should be followed or was he false: confused or deluded or a liar or an impostor?

So to this question, none has answered me yet: neither you nor he nor anyone else.

 

[L Gilbert]

I know very well that you are an enemy of God, and your words are as smooth as the venomous snake.

How can one be an enemy of something that doesn't exist? It's like being an enemy of the people that live on the moon.

 

[eanassir]

I have never read the Quran or the writings of Bahá'u'lláh. I have no interest in reading them. I have my own path to follow

.

I am just asking you to look at other writings

See what I told you, and I was right :roll:

And if you do not read the Quran, why do you take such an attitude against it?

 

[L Gilbert]

What is this between Brothers, a terse exchange?

My Children,

The Books are provided for your guidance.

Bhudda, for your personal journey into the World of Man.

The Bible, for how to organize yourselves into a sustainable world.

The Koran, the warning....And to inject the Spirit of Patriotism in a people who needed it.... But Patriotism isn't a weapon....In this world Words are Weapons right now. That will ease off....But the Families have forgotten their first duty is to their country and have gone galivanting....Now to be Christian in this cas would be to forgive and reflect on what has been learned....

Why wouldn't you have written all three? They were brought together in one place?

I thought I'd done a Fine job, until Christ came along and corrected me.

He was a teacher after all....

Great. Another space cadet. At least they add a little humor amongst all the deep and heavy chatter.

 

[eanassir]

How can one be an enemy of something that doesn't exist? It's like being an enemy of the people that live on the moon.

You are like the blind who denies anything existing in front of him.

 

[L Gilbert]

It's funny, with the exception of a few, the people of religions all claim that their particular brand is the one true religion and anyone who follows another religion is a doomed heathen or whatever. Well the overlapping should pretty much doom anyone who follows a religion. I feel pretty safe because I have no religion and don't idolize anything.

Yep. I don't need some band of pompous asses or some book to tell me what to think and how to think it. And I don't need a congregation of "yes-men" patting me on the back for thinking the "right" thing.

 

[L Gilbert]

You are like the blind who denies anything existing in front of him.

Sorry, you're wrong as usual. I have a computer monitor in front of me. There's air between it and my eyes. If anyone is blind, it is you. :lol:

 

[L Gilbert]

So you know very well what I meant by my question.

The word نبوة in Arabic means "prophecy" and "prophet-hood"; what I mean actually is the "prophethood"; and was this man a true prophet or false one: deluded by Satan, or confused or an impostor.

And this was my question: because Cliffy said the Bahai is good and came recently and newer than Mohammed; so I asked him what is the evidence to his prophecy: and I meant to his prophet-hood: was he a true prophet then he should be followed or was he false: confused or deluded or a liar or an impostor?

So to this question, none has answered me yet: neither you nor he nor anyone else.

Bahai Faith Network » About Baha’u’llah Prophet and Founder of the Baha’i Faith

 

[eanassir]

The prophet was much embarrassed by the words of the idolaters:


(And We know for certain that your breast is much embarrassed by [the words] they say.

Then celebrate the praise of your Lord [O Mohammed], and be [one] of those who prostrate themselves [to God] in adoration.

And worship your Lord until you become certain [of your prophet-hood.])


The above (between brackets) is the explanation of the Quranic ayat 15: 97-99​

وَلَقَدْ نَعْلَمُ أَنَّكَ يَضِيقُ صَدْرُكَ بِمَا يَقُولُونَ . فَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ وَكُن مِّنَ السَّاجِدِينَ ..الخ​

http://www.quran-ayat.com/​

 

[eanassir]

Sorry, you're wrong as usual. I have a computer monitor in front of me. There's air between it and my eyes. If anyone is blind, it is you. :lol:

This is your fallacy in answering my parable.

 

[Cliffy]

See what I told you, and I was right :roll:

And if you do not read the Quran, why do you take such an attitude against it?

I have read enough from your postings to see that it does not say anything of any value to my spiritual journey.

 

[L Gilbert]

This is your fallacy in answering my parable.

What parable? What fallacy? You just made a comment about my eyesight and I showed you to be wrong.

Smoke some more dope, or chew another mushroom. The high makes your comments very comical.

 

[Downhome_Woman]

Hi,

I believe in Jesus Christ as a prophet and apostle of God Most Gracious: the Creator, and that Jesus was born miraculously without father when his mother Mary was virgin.

And that Jesus is the son of man, just like we are sons of man; and that Jesus was not son of God: glory be to God the Eternal the Most High.

Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel because they associated their religious leaders and priests with God Almighty, and they adopted the exterior of the religion and left the essence of the Commandments.

Therefore, Jesus was not son of God, neither God Himself nor any part of God in three or more or less; but he was a righteous servant brought close to God Most Gracious.

He lived his life like other people, then God saved him from the plight of Jews, and he was not crucified, but Pilate released him after becoming certain (together with Herodus) that Jesus was not worthy of any killing or crucification. Then he hid himself from Jews to die at his death hour and his body was buried while his soul went up to heavens in the neighborhood of God.​

The Quran gives the story of the ancient prophets of the Children of Israel in the correct way, and although it is repeated many times, but the total will give the complete story; because the Quran is not for history but essentially for admonition, so that the reader will face such stories every now and then at many occasions.

Moreover, it gives things that even the Gospel and the acts ...etc do not mention: like the story of the believers who slept in the cave and were Christians persecuted by Jews, and many other relatings that were not mentioned in the Gospel.

In addition to the portents of Doomsday that such details are not mentioned in any other book, plus the description of Paradise and Hell and the discourse of people of Paradise and Hell.

Moreover it includes the law in a correct way without the missing and additions in the Torah and the Gospel.

And the Quran stands midway between the strict obligation and wrong ways of the present Jews on one hand and on the other hand the non obligation of Christians.




It is not for purpose of not looking to the face of God Whom cannot be seen by anyone; but for the purpose of direction of prayer only; and I may come to this point later on.

Garbage. Your illiterate 'prophet' traveled around when he was just a salesman and listened to bits and pieces of OTHER CULTURE'S history. He then chose to build a 'religion' around the bits and pieces that he decided to cobble together.Is there ANYTHING within the history of the Arabian peninsula (and let's face it, Islam gives preference to the believers in Saudi - Muslims in Iran take second place because they aren't Arabs - so much for the idea of Ummah - it really only works if you are a native Arabic speaker - and male)
If you want to convince yourself that his words were 'inspired' by the almighty - be my guest. Even though I'm just a female, I can read, and I read history - your 'prophet essentially listening to gossip. If he's REALLY wanted to know the truth, he would have actually gone to the people who knew, instead of making it up.

 

[selin]

Garbage. Your illiterate 'prophet' traveled around when he was just a salesman and listened to bits and pieces of OTHER CULTURE'S history. He then chose to build a 'religion' around the bits and pieces that he decided to cobble together.Is there ANYTHING within the history of the Arabian peninsula (and let's face it, Islam gives preference to the believers in Saudi - Muslims in Iran take second place because they aren't Arabs - so much for the idea of Ummah - it really only works if you are a native Arabic speaker - and male)
If you want to convince yourself that his words were 'inspired' by the almighty - be my guest. Even though I'm just a female, I can read, and I read history - your 'prophet essentially listening to gossip. If he's REALLY wanted to know the truth, he would have actually gone to the people who knew, instead of making it up.

how can you be so sure that everything happened just as you have said just reading some books for criticisms about Islam?
Islam was born in Arabia but now it is everywhere so that you all got nervous and like the other religions ,it has the language of which it was born in but is translated in other languages for it adresses to all people wherever they are from. what is the language of Bible originally and what is your language?

 

[Downhome_Woman]

how can you be so sure that everything happened just as you have said just reading some books for criticisms about Islam?
Islam was born in Arabia but now it is everywhere so that you all got nervous and like the other religions ,it has the language of which it was born in but is translated in other languages for it adresses to all people wherever they are from. what is the language of Bible originally and what is your language?

Well aren't you touchy.
My native language in English but why do you assume that my only resources are books critical of Islam. What. do you not think that I would actually read the Quran - albeit in my own language? and as far as the language of the Quran - if it was written in Arabic - and if all translations are suspect because they are not Arabic - then as far as i'm concerned it - and the religion - was only meant for Arabic peoples. The book does NOT speak to me, the religion does NOT speak to me. I'm not 'nervous', I'm not afraid. I was brought up as a Christian but after much introspection (and I probably know my bible better than many non-Arab Muslims understand their Quran, as they actually can't understand the language that they recite)I left it - because I read my Bible, I studied my religion and I found that I didn't believe it's fundamental pillars. Islam? I've read it and I find it to be an amalgam of religious 'stuff' gathered from Christianity and Judaism. Einasser - you - can tell me all you want about how wonderful Islam is, but all I see is plagarism.
As far as the original language of the bible? Which Bible - Old or New Testament?And as far as that goes, I've never heard any Christian scholar say that what is written in the New Testament is immutable. As far as the founders of the 'Three'? You have the Talmud: (it pretty much means instruction, or learning) is a central text of mainstream Judaism,regarding Jewish law, ethics, customs and history.And you have the Torah which pretty much refers to the first 5 books of the Old Testament. funny thin g about the Talmud and the Torah, is that there is an acceptance that they are not written in stone and that as the world changes, so does the law. the basics re,main the same - you should not murder, you should not commit adultery, but like life, these books change. And what's your issue with whatever language these texts were written in anyway?
Your statement, how can you be so sure that everything happened just as you have said just reading some books for criticisms about Islam? " - huh? how about you telling me how some guy from Arabia can pontificate on the history of a people he knows nothing about? Just because Mohammed might wanted to think it happened that way doesn't mean it did. I can say God tells me things - it doesn't mean she did, but hey, all I need to do is to be a good salesman and who knows - I might be able to start a whole new religion.
Whatever, but I'll tell you this, DON'T ever assume that my dislike of Islam has anything to do with my just reading some critical books. I do my due diligence - I critique Islam the same way i critique Islam - I read the good, the bad and the ugly. Tell me - what do you read - if you actually do read?