congratulatons to team canada hockey mens gold medal win

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
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Calgary, AB
ask bettman, he is the one who made the blunders.
why doesn't bettman try to introduce nhl hockey into the large hockey crazy
cities, instead of grabbing money from rich u.s. millionaires, who don't have
a clue, and think they are going to be successful, after hearing the b.c. bettman
offers them.

You're still not getting it, Talloola: Bettman is essentially the spokesman for the owners. The face. He's not a figurehead and he has some ideas of his own, but they don't move ahead without approval of the owners.

As for Bettman being responsible for all the mistakes, he wasn't the one who put forth franchises like the Kansas City Scouts, the Cleveland Barons, the California Golden Seals, the Atlanta Flames or the Colorado Rockies, all of which failed or had to be moved in the 70s. The NHL has had its eye on the financial candy of the US TV market for decades and has made repeated attempts to secure a piece of it. Arguably under Bettman's watch they have done a better job because while some franchises aren't entirely healthy, they aren't moving or folding anymore.

Bettman wasn't the one that changed the economics of the NHL by making stupidly inflationary salary offers to free agents in an effort to buy a championship (see Ron Caron, Neil Smith, Bob Clark, Cliff Fletcher, Glen Sather and others), that in the end meant that Winnipeg and Quebec could no longer afford their teams.

I'm not going to say franchises in Nashville or Phoenix make a whole lot of sense to me, but at the same time, I'll balance that by admitting that Winnipeg and Quebec City don't have the population (or corporate base) to sustain them either. People bring up Hamilton time and again, and while I agree that it might be a good place for another team, the OWNERS of the Leafs, Sabres and Wings have a lot to say about the placement of new franchises in their back yard, that might affect their revenue streams.

It bothers me to see this whole "hockey is ours" mentality, especially from people who cheer on the American and European players on their hometown team's rosters. Whats best for the game is to allow the market to grow, so more people are exposed and more kids grow up playing the game and wanting to be the next Sid/Ovechkin/Ryan Miller. Growing something is not always linear and painless. Take pride in what we have, don't get hung up in resenting what others do or don't.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Oshawa
Wow....someone is actually defending Bettman...must be related.:lol:

Worst case scenario for Gary.....all Canadian final....or even better...all Canadian semi's.:canada:

I was at the centennial celebration on Dec 4 in Montreal and I wasn't to far from Gary and during the whole spectacle he kept looking at his watch. I guess he had an important meeting coming up to get a team in Nebraska....untapped market you know....while three viable Canadian cities seethe.

The guy is a weasel and always will be.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
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Location, Location
Gary's job is to provide a sustainable income stream for the entertainment business known as the NHL.

He's a slimy little creep, but he's doing what he's told to do by the owners.

Hockey needs to go where the money is, and that's more corporate, tv ratings, and the fans, in that order.

I cannot see Hamilton getting a team, because both Toronto and Buffalo would put a stop to that.

Quebec City and Windypig are way too small to make teams sustainable - Ottawa can barely do it, and that was with the highflying Nortel and Corel IT money.

NHL hockey is a big money game these days.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
Gary's job is to provide a sustainable income stream for the entertainment business known as the NHL.

He's a slimy little creep, but he's doing what he's told to do by the owners.

Hockey needs to go where the money is, and that's more corporate, tv ratings, and the fans, in that order.

I cannot see Hamilton getting a team, because both Toronto and Buffalo would put a stop to that.

Quebec City and Windypig are way too small to make teams sustainable - Ottawa can barely do it, and that was with the highflying Nortel and Corel IT money.

NHL hockey is a big money game these days.

Do you think an All Canadian City Only hockey league would be viable and sustainable?
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
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Calgary, AB
Wow....someone is actually defending Bettman...must be related.:lol:

Worst case scenario for Gary.....all Canadian final....or even better...all Canadian semi's.:canada:

I was at the centennial celebration on Dec 4 in Montreal and I wasn't to far from Gary and during the whole spectacle he kept looking at his watch. I guess he had an important meeting coming up to get a team in Nebraska....untapped market you know....while three viable Canadian cities seethe.

The guy is a weasel and always will be.

A) I'm not related to him, I just hate seeing people rag on others for mistakes that aren't theirs. The NHL has a history of people in upper management positions making mistakes or making decisions that aren't in the best interests of the long term health of the sport, as I tried to illustrate.

B) I agree he's a weasel at times but tell me guys like Eagleson and Goodenow weren't too. Thats not saying all of the above only did things that were bad for the game.

The question wasn't posed to me, but I'll answer it: I do NOT think an all-Canadian hockey league would be sustainable or good for the game. We're hockey-mad up here but keeping the game here does nothing to grow the sport: if anything isolating ourselves from the rest of the world means our talent would stagnate and probably fall off a bit. And economically, it wouldn't work: the NHL and to a degree the KHL in Russia have driven salaries that would make it impossible for a Canadian only league to compete. The (anti-christ of the NHL) New York Rangers are one of the richest franchises in the game, there's a lot of money behind Mike Illich's Detroit Red Wings too, to name two teams that could outbid any team in Canada for players... and I don't doubt there are more that could, should their owners so desire. A Canadian only professional league is a nationalist fantasy, nothing more.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
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Location, Location
Do you think an All Canadian City Only hockey league would be viable and sustainable?

Nope, for several reasons, but the main one is money.

Money is what makes professional sports work. There would not be enough money to make a Canadian city ony league draw the best players, which would dilute the product, and make it uninteresting.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that NHL hockey is not a patriotic hobby, it's big business in the entertainment industry. Expecting to have more Canadian teams, or for more Canadians to play in Canadian cities, is unrealistic.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
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USA
Nope, for several reasons, but the main one is money.

Money is what makes professional sports work. There would not be enough money to make a Canadian city ony league draw the best players, which would dilute the product, and make it uninteresting.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that NHL hockey is not a patriotic hobby, it's big business in the entertainment industry. Expecting to have more Canadian teams, or for more Canadians to play in Canadian cities, is unrealistic.

That is what I thought as well. However not being from Canada I could not really speak for Canadians.

Thank you.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
You're still not getting it, Talloola: Bettman is essentially the spokesman for the owners. The face. He's not a figurehead and he has some ideas of his own, but they don't move ahead without approval of the owners.

As for Bettman being responsible for all the mistakes, he wasn't the one who put forth franchises like the Kansas City Scouts, the Cleveland Barons, the California Golden Seals, the Atlanta Flames or the Colorado Rockies, all of which failed or had to be moved in the 70s. The NHL has had its eye on the financial candy of the US TV market for decades and has made repeated attempts to secure a piece of it. Arguably under Bettman's watch they have done a better job because while some franchises aren't entirely healthy, they aren't moving or folding anymore.

Bettman wasn't the one that changed the economics of the NHL by making stupidly inflationary salary offers to free agents in an effort to buy a championship (see Ron Caron, Neil Smith, Bob Clark, Cliff Fletcher, Glen Sather and others), that in the end meant that Winnipeg and Quebec could no longer afford their teams.

I'm not going to say franchises in Nashville or Phoenix make a whole lot of sense to me, but at the same time, I'll balance that by admitting that Winnipeg and Quebec City don't have the population (or corporate base) to sustain them either. People bring up Hamilton time and again, and while I agree that it might be a good place for another team, the OWNERS of the Leafs, Sabres and Wings have a lot to say about the placement of new franchises in their back yard, that might affect their revenue streams.

It bothers me to see this whole "hockey is ours" mentality, especially from people who cheer on the American and European players on their hometown team's rosters. Whats best for the game is to allow the market to grow, so more people are exposed and more kids grow up playing the game and wanting to be the next Sid/Ovechkin/Ryan Miller. Growing something is not always linear and painless. Take pride in what we have, don't get hung up in resenting what others do or don't.

I don't think he is just a spokesman for the owners, they are a
group who makes decisions together, then he speaks, and is
very much a politician at that time. Sure we can't blame
him alone, but he is the talking head, so the responsibility
to explain the moves is his. What was done years ago, is
also the responsibility of the commissioners at that time.

The NHL are topping up the huge losses of certain cities in
the u.s. to keep them afloat, same thing could have been
done with winnipeg and quebec, now that the cost of purchasing a team has gone through the roof, those two
canadian cities will never be able to afford it, but they
had their teams back then, just like those useless cities
with no interested fans have theirs now, and those cities are receiving lots of help to sustain them, and they even
had to buy the phoenix coyotes.

Hockey is ours, it is our game, always will be, that only
means 'pride' that we started it, and it will always be
our game, that has nothing to do with being flexible and
enjoying watching the game grow, of course we want the
game to grow.

Bettman (and friends) should have wined and dined the
seattle area many years ago, and given them good reasons
to want a team in the NHL. Makes so much sense, would
complete the west coast system of teams, the NHL has never
even mentioned them, always seem to travel south, insane.

Yes, I know about the leafs, sabres 'not' wanting another
team in that area, probably would affect the sabres more
than the leafs, and of course the leafs, being the richest
team in the league, have lots of power.

Well it's nice to finally hear someone put the blame where
it belongs re: inflation of salaries, and not on the players, and yes I do remember when owners were fighting
over certain players, and handed them huge salaries, just
to 'get' that player, I remember St. Louis being the first
to do that, forget the player. No Salary cap then, and I
agree with the salary cap, that was a good move for the
sake of balancing out the competative abilities of all
teams.
It's also nice that rangers, and other rich organizations
can't buy teams any longer. That wasn't much different
than montreal and toronto gathering up all of the good
juniors years ago, and keeping them for themselves, before
there was a 'draft'. People talk about them as though they
were such powerhouses, of course they were, I'll take this
one and this one and all of those, and, oh, here are the
left overs for all of you to fight over.
I was a habs fan back then, loved that team, 'why not',
who wouldn't.

I don't understand why the owners aren't having a war inside
of the NHL, because of all the millions they have to fork
over to support failing teams.

Bettman and friends could have gone a little slower, and
given the league time to grow, takes a long time in markets
that don't even know the game, instead of cash and grab
mentality, to get their purchase money for the teams, then
sit back and watch them fail. Not much forethought in my
opinion.

I don't like the word resentment much, doesn't fit me, but
I do observe over the years, and notice that 'money' seems
to be the bottom line for bettman & friends, take the
money, then hope the team will do well, without any economic
studies to find out how much interest will be there after
that money is deposited.

I've watched 'our game' for over 60 years, love it and
will continue to love it, seem commissioners come and
go, and the buck stops with them in the eyes of the fans,
they have no one else to look to as the person responsible,
they never see the 'whole team' inside the NHL, as I said
before he is the spokesman, and has to take the flack, that's
life, it's his responsibility. I also don't like
the power of the eastern owners over the NHL. They don't
have much interest in the needs of the west. I listened
to a couple of gen. mgrs. being interviewed one day, and
they said as far as they are concerned it is irritating
when the western teams come to their cities to play, the
fan turn out drops, and "it would be good for us if we
only played eastern conference teams", so they couldn't
care less about the west, they don't want to have to travel
more, like the west does, and are not interested in helping
to balance the schedule at all, that will be forced on
them, I hope.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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48
Minnesota: Gopher State
"NHL hockey is a big money game these days."

Not necessarily in the States. Let me say again that a few years ago the NHL Stanley Cup championship game had a LOWER tv rating than did senior bowling:


"the {Fox} network had acquired an underperforming TV property that traditionally drew lower ratings than bowling."

Marketing Campaign Case Studies: NHL ON FOX CAMPAIGN



In several cities attendance is very low and the teams are not making much money, especially in the south:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/sports/hockey/02hits.html



Like it or not, the NHL is going to have to make changes if it wishes to gain popularity in the USA. My hope, as I stated on another thread, is that it will adopt Olympic rules.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
Bettman does move according to the wishes of the owners. However, do the owners of Toronto and Ottawa want a lucrative team in Hamilton? Of course not. A Hamilton franchise would make as much money as a quarter of the US NHL franchises combined. But it might take a bit out of the other regional owners pockets, so it's not in the "NHL's" interests.

Those owners carry a lot of weight. They would much rather find a group to pay an exorbitant franchise fee then put them in the middle of nowhere, so they don't infringe on their party.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
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38
Calgary, AB
Well it's nice to finally hear someone put the blame where it belongs re: inflation of salaries, and not on the players, and yes I do remember when owners were fighting over certain players, and handed them huge salaries, just
to 'get' that player, I remember St. Louis being the first to do that, forget the player. No Salary cap then, and I agree with the salary cap, that was a good move for the
sake of balancing out the competative abilities of allteams.

Yeah it was Ron Caron when he was the GM in St Louis, he made an offer to Scott Stevens in about 1989 or so, paying him $4 million (if my memory is correct) a year to get him out of Washington, then he made an offer to a young restricted free agent named Brendan Shanahan in New Jersey. St Louis lost Stevens as compensation for Shanahan, so Caron then made a similar offer to Al McInnis in Calgary. Then the floodgates opened as the Rangers, Leafs, Flyers and a few others jumped on board.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
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Vancouver Island
Yeah it was Ron Caron when he was the GM in St Louis, he made an offer to Scott Stevens in about 1989 or so, paying him $4 million (if my memory is correct) a year to get him out of Washington, then he made an offer to a young restricted free agent named Brendan Shanahan in New Jersey. St Louis lost Stevens as compensation for Shanahan, so Caron then made a similar offer to Al McInnis in Calgary. Then the floodgates opened as the Rangers, Leafs, Flyers and a few others jumped on board.

yeah, I remember, and of course it was stevens, and I also
remember the shanahan deal too, yes, that was the beginning
of it all.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
Bettman does move according to the wishes of the owners. However, do the owners of Toronto and Ottawa want a lucrative team in Hamilton? Of course not. A Hamilton franchise would make as much money as a quarter of the US NHL franchises combined. But it might take a bit out of the other regional owners pockets, so it's not in the "NHL's" interests.

Those owners carry a lot of weight. They would much rather find a group to pay an exorbitant franchise fee then put them in the middle of nowhere, so they don't infringe on their party.
Actually having a good team in Hamilton would provide welcomed competition for both Toronto, Ottawa, as well a Buffalo and Detroit. A healthy competition is good.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
Actually having a good team in Hamilton would provide welcomed competition for both Toronto, Ottawa, as well a Buffalo and Detroit. A healthy competition is good.

for the toronto team and the buffalo team, a healthy group competing together isn't important, it is important for
them to have a bulging profit, with no interference from
other teams, it is only the fans and the players who
would like the healthy competition, but the NHL and the
owners don't give a 'hoot' about that.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,467
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Location, Location
Actually having a good team in Hamilton would provide welcomed competition for both Toronto, Ottawa, as well a Buffalo and Detroit. A healthy competition is good.

Competition on the ice is there already, and is guaranteed no matter where the other teams are located.
Competition at the box office is not good, if your product is sub-standard, has been for 40 years, and only survives because you have a near-monopoly.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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What Sidney Crosby’s Olympic goal meant to Paul Henderson

Everything is right in the country again

by Paul Henderson on Monday, March 29, 2010 11:55am - 2 Comments
I wasn’t watching the game when Sidney Crosby scored to win the gold medal for Canada. My wife and I speak at marriage conferences and we were doing one in Victoria, B.C., at the time. We had given a speech all through the first period, but had a break over lunch, so I watched the second and third periods, or what I thought was going to be the end of the game.
When the U.S. tied it up, I had 120 couples waiting for me to talk. I told them before we started that if anyone’s got a radio or an iPod, to not say a word if the U.S. scores. But if Canada scores, please yell it out.
About 15 minutes into the talk, a lady yelled out, “Crosby’s just scored for Canada!” We went nuts and cheered. It was the first time in my life I ever led a singalong when we spontaneously started singing ‘O Canada.’

There were several American couples there and they stood up with us. My wife was smart enough to thank them for standing up as we sang our national anthem, as difficult as that might have been. I’d forgotten about the Americans being there or I might have been a little more sensitive myself. I had obviously gotten caught up in the moment.
The truth is I had gotten caught up in the whole Olympics. I think most of Canada did. The hockey tournament seemed to carry a bit more importance, though. It seemed to be that if we could just win that, everything would be right in the country again.
I’m the eternal optimist, so I always thought Canada would win. And if I was going to pick somebody to score in the overtime period, Crosby seemed like a natural choice. You’re going to go with a goal scorer. In ’72, I probably would’ve picked Phil Esposito.
Immediately after the game, Crosby said he couldn’t remember how he’d scored his goal. I could play mine in slow motion. A guy had tripped me and I fell behind the net. Even falling, I remember thinking, ‘I’ve still got enough time to score a goal.’ Then I saw Esposito take a whack at it. Vladislav Tretiak should’ve just covered it—I should never have been able to get the rebound. It wasn’t a hard shot, but Esposito probably surprised him. The puck came right to me and, to be truthful, I really panicked and tried to fire it along the ice. Tretiak went down and he got it with his pad. But, thank goodness for me, it came back and I just fired it again. To see it go in was just incredible.
When that puck went over the line, my first thought was sort of melancholy—I thought of my dad. He had died in 1968 and I had not thought of him once during that whole season. But I remember saying out lout, ‘Oh, Dad would’ve loved this one.’ It was gone in a millisecond and I jumped into Cournoyer’s arms and we’ve been celebrating for 38 years.
There’s no question we’ll be celebrating Crosby’s goal in much the same way. Of course, some of the circumstances are different. For me, the goal changed expectations. I quit enjoying the game for a while because I started putting so much pressure on myself, trying to do things I could never do. But for Crosby, this doesn’t change his game at all. This is who he is and this is what he does, game in and game out. And in 1972, with communism, it was an ideological war as much as a hockey war. It’s tough to get really upset about the U.S.
Still, for Canadians that weren’t around 38 years ago, Crosby’s goal will be a defining mark. Canadians will remember where they were, what they were doing, how they celebrated, and Crosby will forever be known as the guy that scored The Goal, just like I am.