911 take 911

AnnaG

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I'm pretty sure it was referencing 'pools of molten metal' rather than making small cuts. Look at this photo, 5 days after the attack look at all the 'hot spots'. Cleanup operation had barely started so cutting beams for removal is not the source.
I don't care what you think they were saying. What they said was that there are only two ways of melting steel and they are wrong.



That's fine, a person would have to have some interest, you quit after a minute on a 10min vid.
That's a pretty stupid comment. I guess it didn't occur to you that I didn't have the time to watch it. I might watch it at another time, though. Either way, I have no doubt I could find holes in that guy's opinion, too.


Hers is a link (to a link) to a paper that covers just what was found.
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center // Current
Thanks.



Really, find one other example anywhere.
Access : Pressure-induced coordination changes of transition-metal ions in silicate melts : Nature


You provided the answer yourself, they were dipped in it for a short period of time, leave it in overnight see what happens.
No I didn't provide the answer. If you dip a piece of metal into a liquid metal which has a hotter melting point, there would be divots in the cold metal. If the metals are similar there will be metal from the puddle fused to the cold metal.
 

MHz

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I covered the cockpit door about 6 pages ago.You can go back and find it yourself,im not spoon feeding it to you or doing your homework for you if you arent comprehending the info.
You did not, all you did was belly ache that I wasn't supplying the info after I gave you the link to the whole data set. Post 44 was hardly a rebuttal.

"Worse still, the data show that nobody opened the cockpit door on the prior 11 or so flights"
The data stream only covers the 2 previous hours, why would post something so easily disproved? lol
 

Kakato

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You did not, all you did was belly ache that I wasn't supplying the info after I gave you the link to the whole data set. Post 44 was hardly a rebuttal.

"Worse still, the data show that nobody opened the cockpit door on the prior 11 or so flights"
The data stream only covers the 2 previous hours, why would post something so easily disproved? lol

More on the door.

***UPDATE 2***There is a question as to whether or not this data is even recorded on the B757-2 type aircraft. The B757-3 does, but maybe not the B757-2. Flight 77 was a B757-2.
***UPDATE*** Well, that didn’t take long. I wondered in the following article just how long it would take the disinformation specialist Jon Gold to start to “poo-poo” this new information. True to form, Jon Gold is ****ting all over it already.
“Of this document lists the “mandatory parameters” for the FDAU (Flight Data Acquisition Unit) which “receives various discrete, analog and digital parameters from a number of sensors and avionic systems and then routes them to a flight data recorder (FDR) and, if installed, to a Quick Access Recorder (QAR).” I don’t see anything about the cockpit door. I could be wrong. This document from the NTSB regarding Flight 77 says “the Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit (DFDAU) provides a means of gathering, conditioning, and converting flight data parameters to digital data. In this aircraft, the DFDAU function is performed by the SSFDR (Solid State Flight Data Recorder).” On page 6, it lists the “Parameters Plotted,” and I don’t see anything about a Flight Deck Door. On page 10, it starts listing “Parameters Not Working Or Unconfirmed,” and then on page 13, it does list “FLT DECK DOOR.” However, I don’t know if what is being presented here is accurate anyway. As of right now, this is a “claim.” Good question. Disinfo Agent Jon Gold
Gold’s twisted logic is remarkable. “I don’t see any mention of the door”, “I don’t see any mention of the door”, “ok, here’s a mention of the door, but it looks like it is wrong…”
Gold is a “LIHOP” supporter meaning they Let It Happen On Purpose. What he won’t tell you is that “LIHOP” is the default fallback position of the globalists who planned 911. You see, with LIHOP they can blame Bush, Cheney, Rice, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Silverstein and others, but the important thing is that the myth of the “islamo fascists” attacking us remains intact. That way they can maintain the all important Global War on Terror.
And that is what Jon Gold brings to the table.
————–
original.
Pilots for 911 Truth is reporting a new development in the study of the Flight Data recorder information they received from the NTSB. Looks like there is a sensor on the flight deck door that records when it is opened and closed. According to researchers in Australia and confirmed by Pilots for 911 Truth, the cockpit door was never opened during the flight. That means that no hijackers could have gotten into the flight deck and hijacked the plane. The implications for this are varied. If correct, it either means that the analysts that created the fraudulent flight data recorder were so worried about getting the flight path correct that they forgot to work in the technicalities for the actual hijacking, or it means that something else took over that flight (like say a remote piloting system). Either way, if correct, it opens up a lot of avenues for investigation. Can’t wait to see how long it takes Jon Gold and his ilk to start attacking this one.
The following is from the story on Pilots for 911 Truth;
(PilotsFor911Truth.org) – Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled “FLT DECK DOOR”, cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.
On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, “…all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers…”[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed??????
 

MHz

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That's a pretty stupid comment. I guess it didn't occur to you that I didn't have the time to watch it. I might watch it at another time, though. Either way, I have no doubt I could find holes in that guy's opinion, too.
Why would I think that, here is your quote as to why you didn't watch it.
"The first vid lost me almost right away when the lady said that steel can only be melted in a blast furnace or if thermite is used. That's straight crap. Otherwise steel could not be welded or cut in machine shops and especially not underwater. I saw no reason to continue watching this video when misleading comments like that are made."
 

AnnaG

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Why would I think that, here is your quote as to why you didn't watch it.
"The first vid lost me almost right away when the lady said that steel can only be melted in a blast furnace or if thermite is used. That's straight crap. Otherwise steel could not be welded or cut in machine shops and especially not underwater. I saw no reason to continue watching this video when misleading comments like that are made."
Quit being obtuse. If they are going to say stupid things like that nonsense about steel only being able to be melted in blast furnaces and thermite reactions, then the rest of the vid probably contains more misinformation. You're right, I am not interested in misinformation.
 

TenPenny

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Location, Location
Um, you guys remember the topic?

The first vid lost me almost right away when the lady said that steel can only be melted in a blast furnace or if thermite is used. That's straight crap. Otherwise steel could not be welded or cut in machine shops and especially not underwater. I saw no reason to continue watching this video when misleading comments like that are made.

Exactly; when you begin with a statement that is utterly wrong, everything else you say after that is doubtful, and there is no point in listening to it.
 

AnnaG

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Well it certainly wasn't red bricks lol
How would you know? Ok, I saw a pic of it and it was a reddish building so I assumed is was red brick. Red brick is pretty popular in older buildings.
I found out just now it was made from red granite. Did you know that red granite is a conglomerate and can contain a number of different substances?

http://www.buygranites.com/granite.html
 
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MHz

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Did this aircraft have a cockpit door sensor that was monitored by the FDR?
Uid: FLT_D_DR
Abbrev: FLT_D_DR
Name: FLT DECK DOOR
Units:
Minimum Value: 0
Maximum Value: 1
Digits Displayed: 0
Signed Value: No
Parameter Type: Discretes
Bitval 0 Output: CLOSED
Bitval 1 Output: OPEN
Sampling Freq.(hz): 0.25
Number of bits: 1
Locations/value: 1
Frame(s) Subframe(s) Word Start Bit End Bit
ALL 3 251 1 1
Number of Tests: 0

The above is from a txt doc in this file '757-3b_1.zip'
 

Kakato

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Uid: FLT_D_DR
Abbrev: FLT_D_DR
Name: FLT DECK DOOR
Units:
Minimum Value: 0
Maximum Value: 1
Digits Displayed: 0
Signed Value: No
Parameter Type: Discretes
Bitval 0 Output: CLOSED
Bitval 1 Output: OPEN
Sampling Freq.(hz): 0.25
Number of bits: 1
Locations/value: 1
Frame(s) Subframe(s) Word Start Bit End Bit
ALL 3 251 1 1
Number of Tests: 0

The above is from a txt doc in this file '757-3b_1.zip'


“Of this document lists the “mandatory parameters” for the FDAU (Flight Data Acquisition Unit) which “receives various discrete, analog and digital parameters from a number of sensors and avionic systems and then routes them to a flight data recorder (FDR) and, if installed, to a Quick Access Recorder (QAR).” I don’t see anything about the cockpit door. I could be wrong. This document from the NTSB regarding Flight 77 says “the Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit (DFDAU) provides a means of gathering, conditioning, and converting flight data parameters to digital data. In this aircraft, the DFDAU function is performed by the SSFDR (Solid State Flight Data Recorder).” On page 6, it lists the “Parameters Plotted,” and I don’t see anything about a Flight Deck Door. On page 10, it starts listing “Parameters Not Working Or Unconfirmed,” and then on page 13, it does list “FLT DECK DOOR.” However, I don’t know if what is being presented here is accurate anyway. As of right now, this is a “claim.” Good question. Disinfo Agent Jon Gold
 

MHz

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How would you know? Ok, I saw a pic of it and it was a reddish building so I assumed is was red brick. Red brick is pretty popular in older buildings.
I found out just now it was made from red granite. Did you know that red granite is a conglomerate and can contain a number of different substances?

About Granite: Granite Composition.
Conclusions

I hope that my review of Active Thermitic Material Discovered, being summary and somewhat interpretive, will serve as encouragement to read the paper itself, which, as scientific papers go, is remarkably accessible. The paper's conclusions -- a clear and cogent summary of the results -- are reproduced here in their entirety:
We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in significant numbers in dust associated with the World Trade Center destruction. We have applied SEM/XEDS and other methods to characterize the small-scale structure and chemical signature of these chips, especially of their red component. The red material is most interesting and has the following characteristics:

  1. It is composed of intimately mixed aluminum, iron, oxygen, silicon and carbon. Lesser amounts of other potentially reactive elements are sometimes present, such as potassium, sulfur, barium, lead and copper. [4,6]
  2. The primary elements (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) are typically all present in particles at the scale of tens to hundreds of nanometers, and detailed XEDS mapping shows intimate mixing.
  3. On treatment with methyl-ethyl ketone solvent, some segregation of components was observed. Elemental aluminum became sufficiently concentrated to be clearly identified in the pre-ignition material.
  4. Iron oxide appears in faceted grains roughly 100 nm across whereas the aluminum appears in plate-like structures. The small size of the iron oxide particles qualifies the material to be characterized as nano-thermite or super-thermite. Analysis shows that iron and oxygen are present in a ratio consistent with Fe2O3. The red material in all four WTC dust samples was similar in this way. Iron oxide was found in the pre-ignition material whereas elemental iron was not.
  5. From the presence of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in the red material, we conclude that it contains the ingredients of thermite.
  6. As measured using DSC, the material ignites and reacts vigorously at a temperature of approximately 430ºC, with a rather narrow exotherm, matching fairly closely an independent observation on a known super-thermite sample. The low temperature of ignition and the presence of iron-oxide grains less than 120 nm show that the material is not conventional thermite (which ignites at temperatures above 900ºC) but very likely a form of super-thermite.
  7. After igniting several red/gray chips in a differential scanning calorimeter run to 700ºC, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and spheroids in the residue, indicating that a very high-temperature reaction had occurred, since the iron-rich product clearly must have been molten to form these shapes. In several spheres, elemental iron was verified since the iron content significantly exceeded the oxygen content. We conclude that a high-temperature reduction-oxidation reaction has occurred in the heated chips, namely, the thermite reaction.
  8. The spheroids produced by the DSC tests and by the flame test have an XEDS signature (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) which is depleted in carbon and aluminum relative to the original red material. This chemical signature strikingly matches the chemical signature of the spheroids produced by igniting commercial thermite, and of many of the micro-spheres found in the WTC dust. [5]
  9. The presence of an organic substance in the red material is expected for super-thermite formulations in order to produce high gas pressures upon ignition and thus make them explosive. The nature of this organic material in these chips merits further exploration. We note that it is likely also an energetic material, in that the total energy release sometimes observed in DSC tests exceeds the theoretical maximum energy of the classic thermite reaction.
Discussion

The implications of the discovery of unspent aluminothermic explosives and matching residues in World Trade Center dust are staggering. There is no conceivable reason for there to have been tons of high explosives in the Towers except to demolish them, and demolition is blatantly incompatible with the official 9/11 narrative that the skyscrapers collapsed as a result of the jetliner impacts and fires.
The discovery of active thermitic materials adds to a vast body of evidence that the total destruction of the Towers were controlled demolitions, and to the subset of that evidence indicating the use of aluminothermic materials to implement those demolitions.
That discovery also undermines the oft-heard claim that no explosives residues were found, a claim that was never compelling, given the apparent lack of evidence that any official agency looked for evidence of explosive residues of any kind. Worse, the public record shows that NIST not only failed to look for such evidence, it repeatedly evaded requests by scientists and researchers to examine numerous facts indicating explosives and incendiaries .
I expect that collapse theory defenders will dismiss the discovery of active thermitic material in the same way that they dismissed the thermite residues: by claiming that the samples were contaminated and/or that there are other explanations for the origin of these artifacts than pyrotechnics in the WTC Towers. "Debunkers" have proposed that the iron-rich spheres were fly ash residues embedded in the Towers' concrete, ignoring that the iron constituents in fly ash are oxides rather than elemental iron. How will they explain away the bi-layered chips, whose red layers have iron oxide and elemental aluminum in the ratio of Fe2O3 thermite as nano-sized particles of uniform shape?
As the work of explaining away the direct evidence of explosives becomes more daunting, we will probably see even more reliance on the mainstay of arguments against controlled demolition: those alleging that insurmountable obstacles would face such a project. Three of the most salient such workability arguments are:

  • That the surreptitious preparation of the Twin Towers was too prone to exposure.
  • That setting up the demolitions to start from the Towers' crash zones was technically unfeasible.
  • That thermite is unsuitable as a tool of controlled demolition.
These arguments have taken on the appearance of straw men with their continued repetition -- including by NIST itself -- after being publicly shown to be based on false assumptions. The 9-11Research FAQ on Demolition addressed the first two starting in 2004, and Steven Jones and others addressed the third starting in 2006 by pointing out the existence of explosive variants of thermite.



Explosive Residues: Energetic Materials and the World Trade Center Destruction
 

Kakato

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It would take months of prep work to wire a building that size for a demolision and you cant exactly hide prima cord or shock tube.
As their is no evidence of blast material anywhere to be found and confirmed by every single person who worked on the site I'll tend to believe the guys that were there.
 

Kakato

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Any blast I have worked on leaves old blast material all over the place,in 25 years I have never once seen a blast where their was no evidence of the blasting materials.

Before someone says it was burnt,never ever ever,the prima cord and delays go off first and are far away from where the actual detonation takes place. Ive been witness to over 1000 blasts and never seen a single case where the blast detritus wasnt strewn for 100's of meters.
 

Kakato

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The doors werent locked back then as has been pointed out many many times here but you ignore.

Lets assume your right and the door never opened,how did the original pilots get into the cockpit then?
Through the window?

Secret hatch maybe?
 

Kakato

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So if the door didnt open how did the pilots get in mhz?
And they record more then 3 hours.

Most FDRs record approximately 17–25 hours worth of data in a continuous loop. It is required by regulations, that an FDR verification check (readout) is performed annually, in order to verify that all mandatory parameters are recorded.
 

MHz

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“Of this document lists the “mandatory parameters” for the FDAU (Flight Data Acquisition Unit) which “receives various discrete, analog and digital parameters from a number of sensors and avionic systems and then routes them to a flight data recorder (FDR) and, if installed, to a Quick Access Recorder (QAR).” I don’t see anything about the cockpit door. I could be wrong. This document from the NTSB regarding Flight 77 says “the Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit (DFDAU) provides a means of gathering, conditioning, and converting flight data parameters to digital data. In this aircraft, the DFDAU function is performed by the SSFDR (Solid State Flight Data Recorder).” On page 6, it lists the “Parameters Plotted,” and I don’t see anything about a Flight Deck Door. On page 10, it starts listing “Parameters Not Working Or Unconfirmed,” and then on page 13, it does list “FLT DECK DOOR.” However, I don’t know if what is being presented here is accurate anyway. As of right now, this is a “claim.” Good question. Disinfo Agent Jon Gold
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service
 

Kakato

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Well I'll say your right and we will say the info on the fdr is true like you claim,so how did the pilots get in the cockpit?
I'm going by your data here and if it didnt open for 11 hours......hmmmm,maybe faulty?
 

MHz

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The doors werent locked back then as has been pointed out many many times here but you ignore.

Lets assume your right and the door never opened,how did the original pilots get into the cockpit then?
Through the window?

Secret hatch maybe?
Why do you always turn on your stupid mode?
The AAL77_tabular.csv file starts at 08:19:00 AM and stops at 09:37:32 AM
( from the original linked article)
"Accident investigators monitor the cockpit door with the FDR because it may yield clues to pilot error in a crash. The FDR begins recording once the pilots are in their seats and readying for takeoff, and the plane cannot take off unless the FDR is working."