What is Pride?

[AnnaG]

Nice point. Again and again, humankind has fallen because of his pride. Pharaoh, who was the most supreme leader of the world, in his arrogance failed to heed the warning voice of Moses and said, "Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go." His civilization, although considered unbeatable, was brought to the dust as a result.

Despite many warnings, Nebuchadnezzar, also the top king of his day, took glory to himself. "Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?" he said. As a result, heaven's aid was removed from him and he fell into madness.

Then there's Herod, who failed to give God the glory when the people praised him. Immediately he was smitten. Eaten of worms, he died.

So much for the mighty forces of earth. They, like Goliath, will fall before David's stone, the Stone of Israel.

Nah, that's vanity. You need to study egoists, narcissists, and self-righteous people about the vanity thing. Regular people just take pride in things. You should join us sometimes.

 

[AndyF]

There's no evidence of that.

Ref: newadvent.org/man

The Sacred Writings are entirely concerned with the relations of man to God, and of God's dealings with man, before and after the Fall. Two accounts of his origin are given in the Old Testament. On the sixth and last day of the creation "God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him" (Genesis 1:27); and "the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7; so Sirach 17:1: "God created man of the earth, and made him after his own image"). By these texts the special creation of man is established, his high dignity and his spiritual nature. As to his material part, the Scripture declares that it is formed by God from the "slime of the earth". This becomes a "living soul" and fashioned to the "image of God" by the inspiration of the "breath of life", which makes man man and differentiates him from the brute.

 

[AnnaG]

Ref: newadvent.org/man

The Sacred Writings are entirely concerned with the relations of man to God, and of God's dealings with man, before and after the Fall. Two accounts of his origin are given in the Old Testament. On the sixth and last day of the creation "God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him" (Genesis 1:27); and "the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7; so Sirach 17:1: "God created man of the earth, and made him after his own image"). By these texts the special creation of man is established, his high dignity and his spiritual nature. As to his material part, the Scripture declares that it is formed by God from the "slime of the earth". This becomes a "living soul" and fashioned to the "image of God" by the inspiration of the "breath of life", which makes man man and differentiates him from the brute.

That's not evidence, that's hearsay.

 

[AndyF]

Isn't thinking positively of self consdered pride?

No. One can be pleased of an outcome because it was successful in praising and glorifying God, which is the motive in all goods works. We can share with God the joy that it brings.

Ref: Catechism Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS ie: Merit

My main point in this topic is to make emphasis to item ....

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

So there is nothing wrong with being glad for the accomplishments of others or of ourselves provided they have been accomplished through the guidelines directed to us. Pride presupposes reward. God can be proud of his Son, has he merits it for restoring the lost friendship between man and God. "This is my beloved Son whom I am well pleased." The first grace was given to us by the initiative of God, from this point on our ability to merit grace is a gift, so there is nothing really to be proud of as we now have the option to true life because we have been ransomed. (the protestants would conclude the last part of this sentence meaning "final salvation" which is in error. Failing is still an option and we need to still strive for salvation by making use of the instruments of Penance which the Church graciously provides to all Baptised. So one cannot determine if one is saved in this life.)

Paragraphs 2008,09,25,26,27 shed more light on the subject.

2540 Envy represents a form of sadness and therefore a refusal of charity; the baptized person should struggle against it by exercising good will. Envy often comes from pride; the baptized person should train himself to live in humility.

Andy

 

[countryboy]

No. One can be pleased of an outcome because it was successful in praising and glorifying God, which is the motive in all goods works. We can share with God the joy that it brings.

Ref: Catechism Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS ie: Merit

My main point in this topic is to make emphasis to item ....

2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

So there is nothing wrong with being glad for the accomplishments of others or of ourselves provided they have been accomplished through the guidelines directed to us. Pride presupposes reward. God can be proud of his Son, has he merits it for restoring the lost friendship between man and God. "This is my beloved Son whom I am well pleased." The first grace was given to us by the initiative of God, from this point on our ability to merit grace is a gift, so there is nothing really to be proud of as we now have the option to true life because we have been ransomed. (the protestants would conclude the last part of this sentence meaning "final salvation" which is in error. Failing is still an option and we need to still strive for salvation by making use of the instruments of Penance which the Church graciously provides to all Baptised. So one cannot determine if one is saved in this life.)

Paragraphs 2008,09,25,26,27 shed more light on the subject.

2540 Envy represents a form of sadness and therefore a refusal of charity; the baptized person should struggle against it by exercising good will. Envy often comes from pride; the baptized person should train himself to live in humility.

Andy

Hey Andy, I'm sure you're a nice guy and all, but have you ever considered getting out and taking in some fresh air? It might loosen you up a bit; you know - blow out those cobwebs and "casual down" the language a bit so we could all read what you have to say without trying to thread our way through all the ancient Biblical styles of writing. I mean, it looks piously impressive and authentic, I guess, but I can't understand half of the stuff, speaking for myself.

Usually, that stuff looks pretty good in the Bible but in a discussion forum like this, I think it clouds your messages and makes it hard work just to try and figure out what you're attempting to get across. I think you're spinning your wheels here.

It's just a suggestion. I usually respond better to points that are easily understood at a glance. It's your choice but when most people start making fun of your quotes and references, it might just be time to tweak things a bit and start communicating better. Hope that advice helps. You're welcome.

 

[AndyF]

countryboy:

Thanks for the heads up!. (smilie)

What in particular do you not understand?

keep telling my opera singer daughter that country is where the money is! :lol:

I'm with you, only nothing past 70's, which is rock. My records include Possum,Marty,Snow,Williams,Carter sisters,Cash,Baker,Tammy,etc. Today Jackson puts out good stuff. His "death on Music Row" says it all. I can play Jones down pat, in fact someone told me Possum doesn't do me as well.!!!(Ha). Guess I show my age.

.... I'm deviating.

Andy

 

[countryboy]

countryboy:

Thanks for the heads up!. (smilie)

What in particular do you not understand?

I'm with you, only nothing past 70's, which is rock. My records include Possum,Marty,Snow,Williams,Carter sisters,Cash,Baker,Tammy,etc. Today Jackson puts out good stuff. His "death on Music Row" says it all. I can play Jones down pat, in fact someone told me Possum doesn't do me as well.!!!(Ha). Guess I show my age.

.... I'm deviating.

Andy

Hi Andy, To answer your question, here's an example...My notes in blue

So there is nothing wrong with being glad for the accomplishments of others or of ourselves provided they have been accomplished through the guidelines directed to us. Pride presupposes reward. What exactly do you mean by that, in everyday English please?
God can be proud of his Son, has he merits it for restoring the lost friendship between man and God. Is that a question? If so, what does it mean?

"This is my beloved Son whom I am well pleased." The first grace Which was...? was given to us by the initiative of God, from this point on our ability to merit grace is a gift, so there is nothing really to be proud of as we now have the option to true life because we have been ransomed. You mean as in "kidnapped?" (the protestants would conclude the last part of this sentence meaning "final salvation" which is in error. I was raised in a protestant environment so - if I'm reading this right - there was an error in my upbringing?

And those are just a few examples. The rather "stilted" language leads me to either misinterpret your real meaning, or simply not grasp it at all. Can you express yourself in everyday "street" language to make things more clear and easy to read? If not, that's OK....just pointing out that you might be "losing" more people than just me with that particular writing style or choice of words.