Death knell for AGW

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
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What does global warming have to do with political preference. Global warming is/should be based upon science. It is the left wing who have released false data and called it fact.

Science is nothing else than a disguised way to do politics.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Walter Russell Mead Henry A. Kissinger senior fellow for U.S. foreign policy, CFR :

When the 'climategate' story broke, I doubted that it would ultimately amount to much. Scientists are as nasty and conniving as other people; anybody who digs deep enough is likely to turn up some dirt. And I'm old fashioned enough to hate sneak thieves who pry into other peoples' emails and publish them on-line. I'd like my private correspondence to stay private and believe other people deserve this as well.

But the story keeps growing. Laws may have been broken when it comes to the Freedom Of Information Act requests. "Lame" would be a charitable description of the defenses mounted by some of the scientists involved. And the scientists I've talked to about this, people who like me generally accept the IPCC position on climate change, have been more horrified by the revelations than I was. I've been learning a lot more about the low regard in which some hard scientists hold climatologists than I ever expected to hear.

It begins to look to me as if some of the world's leading climate scientists have been caught pulling an 'Acheson'. Dean Acheson said he had to be 'clearer than truth' about the Communist danger to get American public support for the Truman administration's initial steps to contain the USSR; I think maybe some climate scientists have made the same call. Their motives may be noble (let's stretch the truth to save the world) or mixed (and also keep those research grants flowing in); the consequences could be grave.

We live in an increasingly skeptical, populist political climate. It was already looking extremely unlikely that the Senate and the House could agree on a serious climate change bill next year. Now we could be going from slim to none.

The media is making a big mistake if it thinks ignoring this story will save cap-and-trade. Thorough and relentless investigative reporting is the only way to deal with this story now.
 

Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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Climategate is nothing more than name calling, no "tricks" were involved. I'd like to see some emails from the denier industry.
 

big

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Oct 15, 2009
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The media is making a big mistake if it thinks ignoring this story will save cap-and-trade. Thorough and relentless investigative reporting is the only way to deal with this story now.

Science is not self-sufficient so it seems!
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Cliffy, I think you're right about there being a lack of intelligent life amongst most humans. I haven't seen such a dismal display of ignorance about science for a long time.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Cliffy, I think you're right about there being a lack of intelligent life amongst most humans. I haven't seen such a dismal display of ignorance about science for a long time.

Denying that there is global warming when polar bears are drowning because they can't get to the ice where their food has been for millions of years. is ignorant beyond belief. Global warming deniers have no science.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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The world is warming up at the moment, but history has shown that brief warming trends have resulted in mini ice ages. Will it happen this way again, who knows.

How Global Warming Can Chill the Planet | LiveScience

Global warming can cause global cooling
I was looking at a graph one time that showed regular warming/cooling cycles ove a long period of time, but the latest warming period (the one we are in now) has been extended much longer than the other warming periods. It's posted in here somewhere. It made me wonder why this warming cycle is longer than the others.
 

big

Time Out
Oct 15, 2009
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Quebec
I was looking at a graph one time that showed regular warming/cooling cycles ove a long period of time, but the latest warming period (the one we are in now) has been extended much longer than the other warming periods. It's posted in here somewhere. It made me wonder why this warming cycle is longer than the others.

Expect no answer from science. Science is about reproducing events in lab.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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A UN scientist is declaring that his three fellow UN climate panel colleagues "should be barred from the IPCC process." In a November 26, 2009 message on his website, UN IPCC contributing author Dr. Eduardo Zorita writes: "CRU files: Why I think that Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Stefan Rahmstorf should be barred from the IPCC process."
Zorita writes: "Short answer: Because the scientific assessments in which they may take part are not credible anymore."
Zorita indicates that he is aware that he is putting his career in jeopardy by going after the upper echelon of UN IPCC scientists. "By writing these lines I will just probably achieve that a few of my future studies will, again, not see the light of publication," Zorita candidly admits, a reference to the ClimateGate emails discussing how to suppress data and scientific studies that do not agree with the UN IPCC views.
Zorita was a UN IPCC Contributing Author of the Fourth Assessment Report in 2007. Since 2003, Zorita has headed the Department of Paleoclimate and has been a senior scientist at the Institute for Coastal Research of the GKSS Research Centre in Germany. Zorita has published more than 70 peer-reviewed scientific studies.
Zorita's stunning candor continued, noting that scientists who disagreed with the UN IPCC climate view were "bullied and subtly blackmailed."
"In this atmosphere, Ph D students are often tempted to tweak their data so as to fit the 'politically correct picture'. Some, or many issues, about climate change are still not well known. Policy makers should be aware of the attempts to hide these uncertainties under a unified picture. I had the 'pleasure' to experience all this in my area of research," Zorita explained.

UN scientists turn on each other: UN Scientist Declares Climategate colleagues Mann, Jones and Rahmstorf 'should be barred from the IPCC process' -- They are 'not credible any more' | Climate Depot
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location

"Science doesn’t work despite scientists being asses. Science works, to at least some extent, because scientists are asses. Bickering and backstabbing are essential elements of the process. Haven’t any of these guys ever heard of “peer review”?"
"This is how it works: you put your model out there in the coliseum, and a bunch of guys in white coats kick the **** out of it. If it’s still alive when the dust clears, your brainchild receives conditional acceptance. It does not get rejected. This time."
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
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I was looking at a graph one time that showed regular warming/cooling cycles ove a long period of time, but the latest warming period (the one we are in now) has been extended much longer than the other warming periods. It's posted in here somewhere. It made me wonder why this warming cycle is longer than the others.

Could be that were in for a longer cooling off period, once the all that melting ice stops the global conveyer currents, a ice age would be the next step follow. Were talking about hundreds, maybe thousands of years before the world ocean conveyers get back to nornal. I do not think we are heading for a mini ice age, but a real 2-10 thousand year one.


HowStuffWorks "Deep Ocean Currents (Global Conveyor Belt)"
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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It's not that simple. Increased melt water in the Northern Hemisphere is offset by a warming Southern Ocean. Previous deglaciations show the Southern hemisphere warming before Greenland, which strengthens the formation of the North Atlantic deep water, while melt water from the Atlantic basin generally reduces the circulation.

These changes are related to the orbital forcing, which presently is not a factor. It's unclear what happens when you get Southern ocean warming happening at the same time as Northern Atlantic ice melt.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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I'm not sure I understand what you're asking about. Do you mean for albedo effects? Or precipitation effects on freshwater fluxes?