Mind Your Own Business NATO

JBeee

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Jun 1, 2007
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Afghan Women Want West To Back Off On `Rape Law`

Matthew Fisher

KABUL — As Afghanistan's Parliament debated ways Monday to protect female politicians from assassination, young women attending Kabul University expressed surprise and bewilderment at the debate raging in Canada and Europe over a proposed law that seems to allow men from the Shiite Hazara minority to sexually enslave their wives and imprison them in their homes.


The nearly unanimous view on the campus — arguably the most progressive institution in Afghanistan — was that the West should not involve itself in the country's cultural and religious affairs.


"This is not a good law. Women should be allowed to do what they want," said Hamida Hasani, 18, a Hazara architecture student at Kabul University. She said she was familiar with the controversial legislation, which President Hamid Karzai has pledged to urgently review in the face of strong complaints from western governments.


"But we do not want total freedom. We wanted it to be limited and to be within Islam."


Told of the furor the proposed law has caused in Canada and elsewhere, and about the murder of women's activist and Kandahar provincial council member Sitara Achakzai on Sunday, Hasani said the problem of women's rights in Afghanistan belongs to Afghan woman — no one else.


"They don't know anything about us and our problems," she said. "If they faced what we have faced with hunger and war, they'd realize what is most important to fight for here. Before they come here they should . . . experience our difficulties."


No female or male students at Kabul University except Hasani were aware of the pending Shia family legislation or of Achakzai's murder by Taliban gunmen in Kandahar City.


It's not surprising that few Afghans know about the Shia legislation "because public awareness of any legislation before Parliament is very low," said Fauzia Kofi, 32, a wife and mother of two and a women's rights campaigner who represents the Badakhshan constituency.


"This new Shia law got very little attention anywhere until it appeared in the Guardian and became a big international story. It is still not a big domestic story. Shia women do not understand the implications of this law because they regard this as a cultural issue that is linked to religion, whereas I believe there is a difference between culture and religion."


Hasani and two Hazara girlfriends, Laila Saberi and Keshwar Haidary, who were walking together across from the main entrance to the university after class, were emphatic that the sole role in Afghanistan of NATO nations was "to provide better security. Nothing else."


This opinion frustrated Kofi, who had her personal bodyguard doubled from four to eight by the government Monday because of Achakzai's murder and recent threats by insurgents to kidnap her.


"NATO is here to fight terror but if you do not protect democracy and human rights we may not end up with terrorism but with extremism, which is just as bad," she said, minutes after condemning Achakzai's murder in Parliament. "If you speak of human rights or women rights in Afghanistan you get accused of having converted to Christianity."


Nevertheless, the consensus among the students at a coffee shop popular with the university crowd was that, bad as the proposed law might be, it's none of NATO's business.


"This law is not something that Karzai should sign because there must be mutual agreement within a marriage, but what westerners have to realize is that it is much better for us than it was before when the Taliban behaved so badly towards us," said Shapera Azzizulah, 41, a married Tajik Sunni pharmacist who had dropped by for a cup of coffee after picking up a copy of her university degree.


"Under the Taliban I was forced to wear a burka and my sister was beaten once on her feet for only showing her eyes. Now I don't wear a burka, so that is progress.

"That does not mean that I am happy with everything at all. I am very concerned about men here who have sexual intercourse with very young girls. These men should be sentenced to die. If a couple of them were executed it were executed it would be a lesson to all the bad men."


Picking at a plate of french fries, Fahima Riosi, an 18 year old Tajik Sunni student of Russian literature, complained in Afghanistan's singsong Farsi dialect of "night letters" being received at the hostel for female students that she lived in that threatened to destroy the building and harm its residents if it was not closed.


"I am so scared that when I go to bed I can't sleep," she confided as her roommate, Andesha Sadeet, nodded in agreement.

Like Azzizulah and the three young Hazara students, Riosi and Sadeet said their fathers had initially opposed them going to university, but finally relented when they insisted.


"There is change in Afghanistan today," Riosi said. "There is respect for us if we are educated or if we work.


"But westerners want to change Afghanistan for their benefit, not for ours. They have a bad view of our culture. Some of our women imitate their clothes and their ways. Our freedom must come within Islam."


Sadeet added: "I don't want to see the faces of the Taliban again, but I do not want our culture to change. It is right that we should not go out without our families' permission. I would not want it to be any other way."
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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How the most vulnerable are treated is everybody's business.

Agreed. But we need to be practical about this here. To take a moderate example from Canada. One Jewish father had lodged a complaint with the UN office of human rights, arguing that he had to pay to send his son to a private Jewish school in Ontario but that, had he been Catholic, he could have sent his son to a public Catholic school free of charge.

The UN agreed with his claim, and the whole question of legislated preferential treatment for Catholic in Ontario had even become a point of debate and is an important part of the Ontario Green Party platform.

The reality is that we are not going to make any progress on this front without a long hard battle. So if even in Canada, a country priding itself in being an at least nominally secular state, we fail to protect religious equality, then is it not ignorant of us to expect Afghanistan to go from a Taliban state to something even more progressive than us in 60 seconds flat?

Perhaps a better idea would be for us to experiment with ways of overcoming obstacles to religious equality in Canada and, once we find the answer to that, then we could export those ideas to achieve gender equality in Afghanistan. If we can't set our own house in order, how can we honestly expect to set theirs in order?
 

L Gilbert

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Nov 30, 2006
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the-brights.net
Afghan Women Want West To Back Off On `Rape Law`

Matthew Fisher

KABUL — As Afghanistan's Parliament debated ways Monday to protect female politicians from assassination, young women attending Kabul University expressed surprise and bewilderment at the debate raging in Canada and Europe over a proposed law that seems to allow men from the Shiite Hazara minority to sexually enslave their wives and imprison them in their homes............
Maybe the university women in Afghanistan are simply kinky and into BDSM.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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..or maybe they want us to mind our own business....and GET OUT OF TOWN??

Such saps we are for forcing our ways on other people in the world. lol
 

Sparrow

Council Member
Nov 12, 2006
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We will never learn. We all want to help the women in Afghanistan but it won't happen in a few years. They have been like this for thousands of years and we will have to convince them that there are other ways to live over a very long period of time.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Nuts. There are lots of women there that really appreciate being able to get educations among other things.
 

dumpthemonarchy

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Jan 18, 2005
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You know, Afhganistan is quite a lawless country. Do you think people put much stock in what a corrupt legislature says? Where the president's brother is a drug dealer? Where women likely no relief from anyone from wife abuse?-aside from other women?

I think Afghanis passed this law to irritate Westerners, to mock them.
 

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
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You know, Afhganistan is quite a lawless country. Do you think people put much stock in what a corrupt legislature says? Where the president's brother is a drug dealer? Where women likely no relief from anyone from wife abuse?-aside from other women?

I think Afghanis passed this law to irritate Westerners, to mock them.

:lol: