What's right about our health-care system

JLM

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What's right about our health-care system

by Robert Evans and Noralou Roos Economics Prof. Robert Evans is a director of population health with UBC's Canadian Institute for Advanced Research; Noralou Roos is co-director of the Manitoba Centre for Health Policy and Evaluation. The following appeared recently in The Toronto Star.
Canadians are remarkably masochistic. Year after year, the United Nations says Canada is the most liveable country in the world, yet we seem to discuss nothing but how to dismember it.
Canada has one of the world's most successful health-care systems, yet we cannot shake the belief that, despite all evidence, the grass is always greener south of the border.
While our fundamentally sound system has some problems, we dwell on them and insistently look for magical fixes from the Americans, whose health-care system is generally recognized to be among the least satisfactory in the developed world.
The truth is there is no shortage of good news about the Canadian health-care system; why we hear this so rarely is something that should concern us.
For example, Canadians are healthy. On average, we are among the healthiest peoples in the world, and are becoming healthier. Wide variations exist by region and social group, and we rightly hear much about these. But the overall health of Canadians is high and rising.
In particular, on the standard measures of life expectancy and infant mortality, we outperform the U.S. The U.S. has eight infant deaths per 1,000 live births -- in the same leagues with the Czech Republic and Greece -- while Canada has six per 1,000.
Canadians also live longer and our advantage is growing. From 1990 to 1995, the gap in life expectancy between Canadian and American males grew from two to 2.8 years; for women, it went from 1.6 to 1.9 years.
Different health-care systems are not the whole, or even the principal, explanation for Canadians' better health. The whole American social environment is more brutal for the less successful. In simple economic terms, for example, everyone knows that Americans enjoy higher incomes, on average, than do Canadians.
So while the rich in America are much richer, the poor are much poorer than their Canadian counterparts. In 1995, while the top 20 per cent of U.S. families were substantially better off than their Canadian counterparts, most of the rest were absolutely worse off. The difference is largely attributable to Canada's tax-financed social programs.
There is strong evidence of a link between income distribution and overall health status -- non-egalitarian societies, like the American, that concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, tend to be unhealthy.
But obviously health care also matters, and the Canadian health-care system is very good at getting care to the people who need it, whether or not they can pay.
Cross-border studies suggest that both Canadian and American systems serve people in middle- and upper-income groups well, but that there are marked differences in access for people with lower incomes.
It would be very surprising if this were not so. About 40 million Americans have no insurance at all, and those who do increasingly face larger user fees.
So Canada does a better job of looking after poor people, and getting what care there is to where it is needed most. But most of us are not poor. Aren't we being shortchanged by an underfunded system that is simply incapable of meeting all our needs? The U.S. may not distribute care equitably, but at least it delivers the goods, and ours does not. Or does it?
Americans certainly spend a lot more on health care than we do or than anyone else in the world. One-seventh of their national income, 14.2 per cent, goes to health care, compared with 9.2 per cent in Canada, and eight to 10 per cent in most developed countries. This works out to $3,708 per capita yearly, compared with $2,002 (US) spent in Canada.
It is not that Canada spends so little, it's that the U.S. spends so much. To match these levels, Canada would have to add $45 billion a year to our health-care spending.
But do we really want to do that? The truth of the matter is that more money does not necessarily buy more health care, any more than it buys more health.
Americans do not receive more hospital care and they don't receive more physician services, though they pay a lot more for what they do get. (Yes, their rates of some types of surgical procedures are higher, but overall, Canadians get more surgery.)
Americans do not get higher quality care for their money; follow-up studies of patients on both sides of the border usually show similar outcomes. There is no clear advantage to either side.
The Canadian health-care system is also remarkably efficient.
A universal, comprehensive, tax-financed public insurance system with negotiated fee schedules is administratively lean. The American multi-payer system with diverse and complex coverage restrictions and elaborate forms of user payments is fat.
The American private insurance bureaucracy is huge; its excess administrative costs, compared with a Canadian approach, are estimated to be between 10 percent and 15 per cent of total system costs -- that is, well over $100 billion (US) per year.
But what about the "Canadian problem" -- waiting lists? In the U.S., people without money or insurance do not even get on a waiting list. Access is rationed by ability to pay, not by waiting. (They may be able to get care at some public facilities, but then they wait.)
If the Canadian waiting lists indicate a problem, it is not one for which the Americans have an acceptable solution. Canada could do a better job of managing patients waiting for surgery. Most provinces don't have systems in place to prioritize patients.
However, reviews of waiting lists in Canada have found the system to provide immediate access for emergency cases, and rapid access for urgent care. Since there have been remarkable increases in the numbers of cataract, bypass, hip and knee procedures performed in Canada in recent years, rationing of care here is not a real issue.
Claims of excessive waiting lists are the political theatre of publicly funded health care everywhere in the world. In fact, when asked, most Canadians on waiting lists do not find their waits problematic.
Claims of underfunding play an obvious role in the bargaining process between providers and governments. The former cry "More money for health!" when they mean higher incomes for providers.
Why, then, do American notions keep pushing north? There is a great deal of money to be made by wrecking Medicare.
All the excess costs of an American- style payment system represent higher incomes for the insurance industry and for providers of care. The extra $45 billion it would cost us to match American expenditure patterns is a big enough carrot to motivate those who promote the illusion of American superiority.
So what's really right about the Canadian health-care system? Well, compared to the American, just about everything. We do have problems but the Americans don't have the solutions.




Forum: What's right about our health-care system

The most important thing about our healthcare system is we can go for diagnosis and treatment without having to have any cash in our pockets at the time. It's a good system but too many don't appreciate it. In the long run spread across the entire population it is no cheaper than having no system, just more convenient. Some are under the delusion that healthcare should be FREE. Should we really think that we can get to maintain our most important asset for nothing, yet be willing to pay obscene taxes to abuse it (booze and smokes)?
 

ironsides

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There is no difference between what we in the U.S. have and what you have. We both pay thru the nose for health care, U.S. thru direct cost of health insurance and you thru higher Canadian and Province income taxes. Bet take home pay in the U.S. is a little bit higher even.
 

JLM

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"We both pay thru the nose for health care,"

IT'S time to put things in proportion, in Canada we basically pay about $110 a month for a family to maintain and protect the most important asset we have. How much are we willing to pay to maintain our car? We begrudge health costs yet God forbid we give up our daily coffee at Starbucks- not too disimilar in costs. I think if the premiums were jacked up 50% health costs wouldn't be an issue and we'd still be getting away damned cheap.
 

ironsides

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"We both pay thru the nose for health care,"

IT'S time to put things in proportion, in Canada we basically pay about $110 a month for a family to maintain and protect the most important asset we have. How much are we willing to pay to maintain our car? We begrudge health costs yet God forbid we give up our daily coffee at Starbucks- not too disimilar in costs. I think if the premiums were jacked up 50% health costs wouldn't be an issue and we'd still be getting away damned cheap.

Yes, but you still pay this on top of everything, we do not.

The Canadian Goods and Services Tax (GST) (French: Taxe sur les produits et services, TPS) is a multi-level value-added tax introduced in Canada on January 1, 1991, by Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and finance minister Michael Wilson. The GST replaced a hidden 13.5% Manufacturers' Sales Tax (MST); Mulroney claimed the GST was implemented because the MST hurt the manufacturing sector's ability to export. The introduction of the GST was very controversial. As of January 1, 2009, the GST rate across all Canadian provinces is 5%.

Cost of living is much higher up there.
 

TenPenny

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Yes, but you still pay this on top of everything, we do not.

The Canadian Goods and Services Tax (GST) (French: Taxe sur les produits et services, TPS) is a multi-level value-added tax introduced in Canada on January 1, 1991, by Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and finance minister Michael Wilson. The GST replaced a hidden 13.5% Manufacturers' Sales Tax (MST); Mulroney claimed the GST was implemented because the MST hurt the manufacturing sector's ability to export. The introduction of the GST was very controversial. As of January 1, 2009, the GST rate across all Canadian provinces is 5%.

Cost of living is much higher up there.

Wow, thanks for the lesson. I never understood our tax system. I'm so indebted to you for your terrific insight.
 

JLM

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Yes, but you still pay this on top of everything, we do not.

The Canadian Goods and Services Tax (GST) (French: Taxe sur les produits et services, TPS) is a multi-level value-added tax introduced in Canada on January 1, 1991, by Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and finance minister Michael Wilson. The GST replaced a hidden 13.5% Manufacturers' Sales Tax (MST); Mulroney claimed the GST was implemented because the MST hurt the manufacturing sector's ability to export. The introduction of the GST was very controversial. As of January 1, 2009, the GST rate across all Canadian provinces is 5%.

Cost of living is much higher up there.

It has to be, while our land area is slightly more our population is about 10% of that of the U.S. but we still have to support all the infrastructure and services to cover the land mass. Take our postal system, they have to contend with delivering 1% of the mail to half the land mass. We have a lot of roads that are necessary just to maintain safety and security, never mind the fact that only a handful of vehicles use them every day. Climate in the U.S. is much more conducive to things like food production, virtually all our food growth occurs along a narrow strip adjacent to the U.S. with minor exceptions like wheat and barley in the Peace River.
 

AnnaG

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It has to be, while our land area is slightly more our population is about 10% of that of the U.S. but we still have to support all the infrastructure and services to cover the land mass. Take our postal system, they have to contend with delivering 1% of the mail to half the land mass. We have a lot of roads that are necessary just to maintain safety and security, never mind the fact that only a handful of vehicles use them every day. Climate in the U.S. is much more conducive to things like food production, virtually all our food growth occurs along a narrow strip adjacent to the U.S. with minor exceptions like wheat and barley in the Peace River.
The large majority of Canadians live within 50 miles of the border. There are thousands of square kilometers with no-one in them. The US has to cover a lot more ground as they are in a smaller country by size and have a LOT more people. Unfortunately, Canada's healthcare is failing for more reasons than just distance; like lack of rural docs, waiting lines, politics (immigrant doctors having to drive taxi for a living, etc), etc.
 

SirJosephPorter

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There is no difference between what we in the U.S. have and what you have. We both pay thru the nose for health care, U.S. thru direct cost of health insurance and you thru higher Canadian and Province income taxes. Bet take home pay in the U.S. is a little bit higher even.


Not necessarily ironsides, the calculation is very complicated. You may well be right, but it is by no means obvious.

You have several deductions from your paycheck. There is the federal income tax, state income tax, city income tax (in big cities like New York). Then there are Social Security contributions (I think it is called FICA). It is 7.5 % of your salary, up to a pretty high limit ( I think the limit is above 100,000).

We pay federal tax, provincial tax, Employment Insurance and CPP (Canada Pension) Insurance. EI contributions are insignificant, so are CPP contributions (the maximum CPP contribution is 2,119$ for the year, maximum EI premiums, 731 $ for the year).

So it is really our federal and provincial tax compared to your federal, state, city tax and FICA contributions. The comparison is by no means easy.
 

SirJosephPorter

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"We both pay thru the nose for health care,"

IT'S time to put things in proportion, in Canada we basically pay about $110 a month for a family to maintain and protect the most important asset we have. How much are we willing to pay to maintain our car? We begrudge health costs yet God forbid we give up our daily coffee at Starbucks- not too disimilar in costs. I think if the premiums were jacked up 50% health costs wouldn't be an issue and we'd still be getting away damned cheap.

I think USA pays much more than Canada for health care (and achieves poorer results for it).
 

ironsides

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We pay more because we have 325 million or so to take care of, we have many more children born each year than you. Not % wise, but actually children.
 

SirJosephPorter

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We pay more because we have 325 million or so to take care of, we have many more children born each year than you. Not % wise, but actually children.

You pay more, not because of your population, ironsides. You pay much more per person, per capita than any other country in the world.
 

TenPenny

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My understanding is that the US pays a higher % of GDP on health care, which would mean that the Canadian system is more ecomonically efficient, but then again, the US system sometimes delivers faster results, so it's more like a wash.
 

JLM

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You pay more, not because of your population, ironsides. You pay much more per person, per capita than any other country in the world.

That's not as bad as it seems, as the U.S. delivers questionably the best health care in the world, rivaled only by Canada and a handful of northern European Nations. The U.S. even gets a lot of patients from Canada for the tough to treat maladies where they go to such places as Rochester Minnesota and Bethesda Md.
 

AnnaG

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That's not as bad as it seems, as the U.S. delivers questionably the best health care in the world, rivaled only by Canada and a handful of northern European Nations. The U.S. even gets a lot of patients from Canada for the tough to treat maladies where they go to such places as Rochester Minnesota and Bethesda Md.
.... and get fed up with waiting in pain for a hip replacement after 3 or 4 months and head south to get fixed right away. American doctors, nurses, etc. love Canuckbucks, and they love giving USbucks to Canadian nurses and doctors who get fed up with Canada's peanuts.
When my daughter graduated with her Bach. in Health Science and became a peds ER nurse, she thought of moving south. I think she still is thinking of it. One of her classmates got a good job in England. A couple others went south. Someone from this area had to go into renal failure before he could get into BC's one lone ESWL machine as an emergency case. Another old fellow fell in his garden and ruptured his spleen. It was some 8 hours after he was found before he was diagnosed and treated. He died as a result of trauma.
I think there's a reason we slid from the top 5 in the world to 30th.
 

ironsides

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My understanding is that the US pays a higher % of GDP on health care, which would mean that the Canadian system is more ecomonically efficient, but then again, the US system sometimes delivers faster results, so it's more like a wash.


Probably is a wash, all I know is that when I'm sick I want to get better fast, never want to lose that option.
 

SirJosephPorter

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That's not as bad as it seems, as the U.S. delivers questionably the best health care in the world, rivaled only by Canada and a handful of northern European Nations. The U.S. even gets a lot of patients from Canada for the tough to treat maladies where they go to such places as Rochester Minnesota and Bethesda Md.

That may be JLM, but the results don’t bear that out. USA has just about the lowest life expectancy and highest infant mortality among developed countries. I even remember reading about another measure, life expectancy without a serious disease, and USA lagged behind in that as well.

And a lot of patients from Canada? I seriously doubt that. Only those who have the money to pay for the expensive health care in USA go there. People from developed countries usually to go third world countries (such as India) for medical treatment.
 

JLM

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That may be JLM, but the results don’t bear that out. USA has just about the lowest life expectancy and highest infant mortality among developed countries. I even remember reading about another measure, life expectancy without a serious disease, and USA lagged behind in that as well.

And a lot of patients from Canada? I seriously doubt that. Only those who have the money to pay for the expensive health care in USA go there. People from developed countries usually to go third world countries (such as India) for medical treatment.

Life expectancy and bureaucratic health care do not necessarily go hand in hand. It's not the lack of care at the clinic, it's the lack of care, when lying on the couch, guzzling beer, smoking cigarettes, eating hot dogs, not to mention the fact that Americans venture out onto the highway a lot, a hell of a lot more than the Swedes, the Swiss, etc. In summary it's the health care you get between trips to the clinic and hospital that is more important.
 

JLM

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"When my daughter graduated with her Bach. in Health Science and became a peds ER nurse, she thought of moving south. I think she still is thinking of it."-

You want to look at that prospect from ALL angles- fairly recently I heard that a lot of professionals that shipped out several years ago are now starting to come back.
 

SirJosephPorter

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"When my daughter graduated with her Bach. in Health Science and became a peds ER nurse, she thought of moving south. I think she still is thinking of it."-

You want to look at that prospect from ALL angles- fairly recently I heard that a lot of professionals that shipped out several years ago are now starting to come back.

Grass is always greener on the other side, JLM.
 

AnnaG

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That may be JLM, but the results don’t bear that out. USA has just about the lowest life expectancy and highest infant mortality among developed countries. I even remember reading about another measure, life expectancy without a serious disease, and USA lagged behind in that as well.
Yup. As a matter of fact, the USA is 37th and we are 30th.

And a lot of patients from Canada? I seriously doubt that. Only those who have the money to pay for the expensive health care in USA go there. People from developed countries usually to go third world countries (such as India) for medical treatment.
Canada cost of hip replacement: about $15,000 and 3 or 4 months of pain
USA cost of hip replacement: about $30,000
In India: about $8000
In Costa Rica: about $11,400
in Mexico: about $12,000
Costa Rica would be nice, I think. We could save BCMSP $4000 and have a nifty holiday and get fixed within a couple days.