Canadian Health Care

[Tonington]

Here's something you all might not realize. I think for the most part we all understand that different provincial plans cover different available options. Well, the Canadian Cancer Society is trying to make people aware of the unequal financial burdens placed on some Canadians due to our own patchwork of provincial regs.

They find 1 in 12 Canadian cancer patients will face "catastrophic drug costs" which they define as costs in excess of 3% of household income.

Media Release: Patchwork Drug Coverage Causing Financial Hardship for Many Cancer Patients

 

[TenPenny]

Tell me about it - I know a woman who was diagnosed with kidney cancer last October, the meds that were prescribed cost $1500.00 per month, and weren't covered by any plan; she surely couldn't afford it. Fortunately, she only lived 4 months, leaving a 3 year old son. Wouldn't have wanted her to be a burden to our system.

 

[AnnaG]

Yeah. Unfortunately when private business isn't regulated it is dog eating dog and devil take the hindmost. At least until the people had enough and do a little slicing and dicing a la Louis the 16th, King of France.

But that is the only instance when true private enterprise has a chance of working, Anna. Let us look at the example of automobile. Government does not get involved with automobiles, it won’t give a car for free to anybody who needs it but cannot afford it.

So private enterprise works here. Car companies manufacture cars, try to keep the costs down, compete with each other, customer has the opportunity to shop around for the best deal.

But if you cannot afford a car, you must do without. If you have to keep your son or daughter away from those karate or piano classes because you don’t have a car, that is too bad. But you get what you can afford.

But suppose if you cannot afford a car, government will give you a Mercedes for free. Then the whole private enterprise for automobiles will collapse. There is no incentive for people to shop around, get the best possible deal. There is no incentive for companies to lower costs (even lowering cost, some people may still not buy a car, they will rely on government, so why lower costs and lower the profits?), perhaps try to help those who cannot afford a car. Why bother, government will take care of them.

It is the same with health care. Those who want private health care and claim that competition will lower the costs, they must be prepared for a complete private enterprise, with the possibility that men, women, children will die for lack of health care (private charities do not guarantee health care for all the poor). Only then there is a possibility that it may work.

But by and large, those who support private enterprise in health care are not ready to accept that possibility. What they have in USA is not private enterprise, but private enterprise with a floor, and as such is doomed to failure.

So then we should have unregulated private healthcare.The gov't could save a bundle of money.

 

[L Gilbert]

For the life of me, I can't see why those pinheads in Ottawa can't take a look around the planet and see what works in other countries. Ours obviously needs help. I've always been a fan of Switzerland's healthcare. Insurance is mandatory and if you can't afford it, the gov't foots the bill. If you can afford part of it, the gov't chips in the rest. If you can afford it, you pay. Any way it goes, you are required to have insurance inside of 6 months of entering the country. I think it doesn't matter if you use gov't insurance or private, too but I may be wrong. I also think they have private and public healthcare. Sweden is another good one. I think Campbull the meathead went there to see that one even, and he isn't even that bright.

 

[L Gilbert]

So then we should have unregulated private healthcare.The gov't could save a bundle of money.

I see Joey's been flipflopping as usual. lmao

 

[ironsides]

Health Care Differences

Two patients limp into two different medical clinics with identical complaints.
Both have trouble walking and appear to require a hip replacement. The first patient is examined within the hour, is x-rayed the same day and has a time booked for surgery the following week.
The second sees the family doctor after waiting a week for an appointment, then waits eighteen weeks to see a specialist, then gets an x-ray, which isn't reviewed for another month and finally has his surgery scheduled for 6 months from then.
Why the different treatment for the two patients?


The first is a Golden Retriever...

the second is a Canadian Citizen.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Health Care Differences

Two patients limp into two different medical clinics with identical complaints.
Both have trouble walking and appear to require a hip replacement. The first patient is examined within the hour, is x-rayed the same day and has a time booked for surgery the following week.
The second sees the family doctor after waiting a week for an appointment, then waits eighteen weeks to see a specialist, then gets an x-ray, which isn't reviewed for another month and finally has his surgery scheduled for 6 months from then.
Why the different treatment for the two patients?


The first is a Golden Retriever...

the second is a Canadian Citizen.

You poached that gem from one of your Republican mailing lists I'm sure.

 

[TenPenny]

Health Care Differences

Two patients limp into two different medical clinics with identical complaints.
Both have trouble walking and appear to require a hip replacement. The first patient is examined within the hour, is x-rayed the same day and has a time booked for surgery the following week.
The second sees the family doctor after waiting a week for an appointment, then waits eighteen weeks to see a specialist, then gets an x-ray, which isn't reviewed for another month and finally has his surgery scheduled for 6 months from then.
Why the different treatment for the two patients?


The first is a Golden Retriever...

the second is a Canadian Citizen.

The first one, the owner pays $3500.00 cash, and the vet's annual income is approx $350,000.00, with no weekends on call.

The second one, the patient pays $0.00, and the GP makes $220,000 per year, and works 80 hour weeks, every 4th weekend and every Monday night on call.

 

[Tonington]

It's telling to compare vet school space with medical school space. My fiance is applying to vet school this year, and honestly I think she'd have a better chance at medical school...

It has nothing to do with systemic properties of our health care system. It has to do with provincial funding of advanced programs like these.

 

[ironsides]

And in The United States the second patient would have had their bill paid by the taxpayers. No cost to patient.

 

[ironsides]

You poached that gem from one of your Republican mailing lists I'm sure.

Sort of right, just a general so called joke.

 

[ironsides]

She would, vet. schools are full. Again though it is a way for the various medical professions to keep numbers, costs and salaries up. Ask her to check out some of the schools on the Caribbean Islands.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

It's telling to compare vet school space with medical school space. My fiance is applying to vet school this year, and honestly I think she'd have a better chance at medical school...

Tonington, don’t you believe it. I don’t know what kind of applications they get for vet school, but the competition for medical school is fierce. My son got into medical school three years ago (he finishes next June). He got accepted at University of Western Ontario, London. He tells me that they got 2500 applications, from that they invited 250 for interview, and accepted about 125 to 130. A 5% acceptance rate.

He also applied at McMaster, Hamilton (he didn’t get in; they put him on a waiting list). They got 4500 applications for 125 or 130 seats. He told me that Toronto gets many more applications than that, the population there is huge. He didn’t even apply for Toronto.

For medical school, the competition is cutthroat. Surprisingly, there is not that much competition in USA. I remember 10 or 15 years ago, they used to get two applications for every seat in the medical schools, I don’t know that is the proportion these days.

 

[TenPenny]

And in The United States the second patient would have had their bill paid by the taxpayers. No cost to patient.

Really? Wow. What's all this debate about, then?

 

[Tonington]

Tonington, don’t you believe it. I don’t know what kind of applications they get for vet school, but the competition for medical school is fierce. My son got into medical school three years ago (he finishes next June). He got accepted at University of Western Ontario, London. He tells me that they got 2500 applications, from that they invited 250 for interview, and accepted about 125 to 130. A 5% acceptance rate.

So? You haven't given me any reason not to believe.

How many applications does Guelph get for their VMD program? How many seats are there? The competition for veterinary school is also fierce.

Typically, the residency requirements, for whatever reason, seem to be tighter for VMD programs than for medical school.

I have a cousin, for example, in his last year at the UoCalgary med school. He had no residency in Alberta, gets in right away.

My fiancee needs to have lived in Alberta for one full year, without being in school, at the time of enrollment to be accpeted into the UoCalgary VMD program.

Why? Because as TenPenny said, veterinarians can make large sums of money, in many cases more than Dentists and other MD's. The competition is fierce, as you said.

The Atlantic Veterinary College accepts about 40 students every year from Atlantic Canada. Sixteen of those spots are guaranteed to Nova Scotia students. Ten go to PEI. Thirteen to NB. Two, to NFLD & Labrador. The rest is International students, for a total of 60. Does it seem easier for some students?

Dalhousie is the only medical school in the Atlantic Provinces. Maritime students all go into one pool, with no allocation for each province. You have the same chance in PEI as you do from NS.

 

[TenPenny]

Dalhousie is the only medical school in the Atlantic Provinces.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Tonington]

Does MUN have one? I thought it was just Dal.

I googled. There is now a French program offered through U de Moncton and UoSherbrooke.

One English program, two after 2010 :idea:

This may make med school at Dal easier yet.

 

[TenPenny]

Quite a few NBers go to MUN, actually. It's well respected.

 

[Tonington]

And the tuition is more affordable.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Why? Because as TenPenny said, veterinarians can make large sums of money, in many cases more than Dentists and other MD's. The competition is fierce, as you said.

Not true, Tonington. The median salary for a vet ranges from 60,000 to120,000 depending upon experience. That is much less than the average salary for a medical doctor. Family practitioners make more than this, specialists make much more.

PayScale Canada - Veterinarian Salary, Average Salaries

Dentist starts at 130,000 to 195,000 annually. But the problem with dentists is that some areas may be saturated with dentists (not a problem for doctors and probably not for vets either), and they may not make as much.

WikiAnswers - What is the income of a dentist

For doctors, a Family Physician can earn between 100,000 to 250,000, a specialist 300 to 400,000 (depending upon how hard he wants to work).

Unlike vets, the income for doctors and dentists does not go up with experience. There is one fee schedule for all doctors, it does not depend upon experience.