Best solution for defending Arctic sovereignty?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
My first ever x-mas in the arctic,I had to walk the rounds every 2 hours to see if the machines and gen sets were still running,the gen set died and the backup didnt start then you would also die soon.
23 hours and fifty minutes of darkness because we were still 60 klicks south of the circle.
No roads,5000 miles from a hospital at Yellowknife or Winnipeg.
YouTube - xmas in the arctic
23 hours and fifty minutes of darkness because we were still 60 klicks south of the circle.
No roads,5000 miles from a hospital at Yellowknife or Winnipeg.
YouTube - xmas in the arctic
You never said there were no subs in the Arctic?
Did you not write this: They want to change things,deep ports and subs cruising the arctic are fallacies of peeps who havent been there.
You cannot even remember your own bullsh!t.
I would not persist in calling you on all the bull you post however I am a tad sensitive when people with no clue make stuff up as they go along.
Especially when it concerns our military.
Maybe it's the recently returned from Afghanistan combat veteran who is presently under my roof.
And by they way, he thinks your totally ignorant of the information about the Canadian Forces too.
How would you know what the weather is like in Alert, after all we both know you have never been there.
Just so you know Alert is most northerly permanently habited place in the world
And about not caring about subs in this day and age?
Nuclear ballistic submarines are one of the most important defense systems in the most powerful nations defense capabilities.
The reason why is that they in force the mutually assured destruction theory of defense.
And the reason for that is because they are impossible to take out with a first strike.
Each boomer carries multiple nuclear weapons.
Inter continental ballistic missiles(ICBM's) are tipped with multiple re-entry prep-programmable yield nuclear weapons.
Also nuclear torpedoes and cruise missiles capable of both nuclear and conventional payloads.
The subs are also capable of launching shore parties and unmanned surveillance drones.
But you figure they are useless and you must know.
Right?
Trex
I meant us getting nuke subs for the arctic is a fallacie as is the deep sea port.
I could care less what the weather is like in alert allthough the weather sites were the first thing I checked everymorning and we were usually the coldest,enviro Canada has all the stats from since we had weather stations so you can check it yourself if your really interested in how cold it gets anywhere.
Shore parties in the arctic? Hope theres some rangers around to keep em alive.
I could care less what the weather is like in alert allthough the weather sites were the first thing I checked everymorning and we were usually the coldest,enviro Canada has all the stats from since we had weather stations so you can check it yourself if your really interested in how cold it gets anywhere.
Shore parties in the arctic? Hope theres some rangers around to keep em alive.
Our band aid brought some usa military extreme winter boots to camp,they had an air pump on them that would get condensation and freeze,we allmost had to amputate his foot.
Next up this made up story about Canadian and American military gear being crap and getting traded in for furs.
What total BS.
What the Canadian and American forces do do is to upgrade or compliment their regulation issue stuff with even higher tech private sector gear.
Outfits like Oakley sell our Armed Forces troops gear at huge discounts
But I really doubt you know about stuff like that Kakato.
Moving on.
Original Northern Indigenous peoples clothing typically consists of the following:
Sealskin Mukluks.
Mukluk liners of moss,lichens or Arctic hare.
Sealskin or Caribou pants.
Caribou or sometimes sealskin parkas.
Underclothing made up of bits and pieces of Arctic hare, squirrel or fox.
Mitts of sealskin.
Sleeping robes of Musk ox.
Occasionally rainwear made up of stitched salmon or char skins.
The wee ones get diapers of moss or lichen if required.
Typical Arctic clothing consists of the following:
Insulated boots like the ones made by Sorel.
Heavy duty wool socks.
Silk or wool long underwear(beats cotton every time).
Poly-pro underclothing.
Occasionally quilted underclothing usually down or hollowfil.
Insulated coveralls, skidoo suit or extreme weather outer gear usually gortex covered and hollowfil(or a variant) lined.
A Goose or Eider duck filled parka over the top.
Goretex and hollowfil mitts.
Wool mitt liners.
If your a shooter a wool fingerless shooters glove.
Wool cap.
Felt or down face mask.
Goggles.
Canadian Forces.
American Forces.
Norwegian and Danish Forces.
Researchers.
Mountain climbers.
Coast Guard.
Search and Rescue.
They all wear varients on just what I listed above and its good gear.
None of them trade in their gear for furs chewed soft by and old Inuit grandma.
The down parka was not invented or worn by Northern Indigenous peoples.
It was invented by explorers in the 30's or 40's, constant innovations in baffling and quilting designs insure its inclusion in modern "high tech" clothing designs.
The stuff you write about Canadian and American forces trading in their gear for furs is total BS.
Your statements about Canadian and American cold weather gear is completely unfounded.
I have personally seen Canadian , American and British SAS gear in use on the polar ice cap.
None of them were wearing furs.
I flat do not believe you Kakato.
What Canadian forces have you seen in the Arctic?
What training FOB were they operating out of?
American troops in furs?
Where?
Alaska?
The only place that I know in the Canadian Arctic where there are a bunch of American troops is in Alert.
You were not there Kakato and we both know it.
I have been there and Alert is the most northerly permanently inhabited place in the entire world.
No furs in use up there American or otherwise.
And while we are on the subject every single place you have talked about or have been to is south of the Arctic circle.
Unquestionably you have spent a lot of time in the far north but right now I am starting to doubt you have ever been to the Arctic at all.
Trex
I have some good ideas on what we can do in the arctic but it wouldnt involve expensive useless icebreakers or nuke subs.
It would involve one of the worlds longest ice roads and lots of portable camps.
We need to exploration drill and log all the ground around our borders,right out to the offshore limit.
There is gold,diamonds,uranium,gas and oil that needs to be discovered so we have a more accurate idea of just whats in the ground and what it's worth.I would suggest a bigger port in Churchill to base people and troops from,the army could do the logistics and roads from churchill north,private contractors would do the core drilling.
The camps could be contracted also by the same folks who have been doing remote camps for years.
The port in Churchill would do all the barging in the 3 month summer to resupply the more northern camps.
Parts farther east can be handled by the base in labrador,they could mirror what Churchill is doing in their part of the Arctic.
We need to do what the french have been doing for many years,explore and exploit the arctic resources.
When we have enough data to get the interests of some Canadian companies to invest money then we will start to populate more of the north.
Jobs will be created and the last frontier will be ours with more population living there.
We have some good deposits of gold and lots of diamoniferous kimberlite pipes up there,the now producing meadowbank mine I was at in its exploration days touted it as the purest gold in Canada and I could actually see the gold in the core samples.
I am curious as to what an icebreakers job would be up there.
It would involve one of the worlds longest ice roads and lots of portable camps.
We need to exploration drill and log all the ground around our borders,right out to the offshore limit.
There is gold,diamonds,uranium,gas and oil that needs to be discovered so we have a more accurate idea of just whats in the ground and what it's worth.I would suggest a bigger port in Churchill to base people and troops from,the army could do the logistics and roads from churchill north,private contractors would do the core drilling.
The camps could be contracted also by the same folks who have been doing remote camps for years.
The port in Churchill would do all the barging in the 3 month summer to resupply the more northern camps.
Parts farther east can be handled by the base in labrador,they could mirror what Churchill is doing in their part of the Arctic.
We need to do what the french have been doing for many years,explore and exploit the arctic resources.
When we have enough data to get the interests of some Canadian companies to invest money then we will start to populate more of the north.
Jobs will be created and the last frontier will be ours with more population living there.
We have some good deposits of gold and lots of diamoniferous kimberlite pipes up there,the now producing meadowbank mine I was at in its exploration days touted it as the purest gold in Canada and I could actually see the gold in the core samples.
I am curious as to what an icebreakers job would be up there.
well trex,I have 70 vids from there on youtube,same guy as on my avatar.Theres also some good videos on the training missions they do with the rangers on the barrenlands,take a good look at what their wearing if you decide to check it out.
The baffin boots I wore said good for -100,they were good for about half that but still the best boot,an aviator stle fur hat was also mandatory as were goggles.
I was warm and did go out in - 80 just to see if I could work in it.
I was also in a prospector style uninsulated tent at - 80 so I have a good idea of what does and doesnt work,try that for 8 weeks.
2 sleeping bags,i slept in my canada goose parka,pile all my clothes on me and had my laptop as a footwarmer at the bottom of my sleeping bag.
I've been there but starting to wonder if you were.:lol:
The baffin boots I wore said good for -100,they were good for about half that but still the best boot,an aviator stle fur hat was also mandatory as were goggles.
I was warm and did go out in - 80 just to see if I could work in it.
I was also in a prospector style uninsulated tent at - 80 so I have a good idea of what does and doesnt work,try that for 8 weeks.
2 sleeping bags,i slept in my canada goose parka,pile all my clothes on me and had my laptop as a footwarmer at the bottom of my sleeping bag.
I've been there but starting to wonder if you were.:lol:
Next up this post.
60 kilometers south of the Arctic circle is by definition not in the Arctic by the way.
Its just the north country.
If the secondary generator failed you would soon die?
Die Kakato?
What a drama queen.
Why not just get in one the numerous trucks in the video and turn on the heater?
I also see a stove in one of the tents that looks suspiciously like the ones we used in our tents in the high Arctic.
Ours were gravity fed kerosene from a 45 gallon drum.
No power required there.
So while I know its a chore I also refuse to believe there are not Herman-Nelsons and Tiger torches all over that camp. You tarp in your gen-set and warm it up with a couple of Herman-Nelsons.
No sat phone in case of problems either?
Die my ass.
It's a winter storm in the Canadian north not Everest.
Cold yes.
A tough place to work yes.
The most likely way to die on those kind of projects is by getting backed over by heavy equipment.
That or poisoned by the relief cook.
Trex
The sat phone rarely worked and we only had one,no roads,closest hospital 5000 kliks away,at - 60 diesel is very tough to keep the gravity fed stoves going,propanes useless unless heated and 80% of the time there where ground blizzards,you had a rope to the kitchen from your tent and ya,if you tripped and broke an ankle ten feet outside of your tent at that temp chances were you were going to die.
We only had one pickup truck the first year and it had no heater,ditto with the hoe and most other equipment.We had one bravo with a kamitak that the 4 of us would cruise over to the hermies every day with trying to get something running.
To keep one big hermie running(along with a parachute)you had to run a second one into the intake of the first,then a medium one behind the big one and a smaller one behind that.
They would freeze up steady and as fuel is mixed many times before it gets there it's usually growing organic **** in it and hermys dont like bad fuel.
The generator keeps your water flowing,it also keeps your radio going and the warmers for the choppers.When our pilot crashed a klik from camp he was rescued and spent another week in camp,if he would have been seriously injured he would have died.
You have failed to refute a single thing I have posted on this thread.
And of course the Canadian Rangers wear native Indigenous Peoples clothing.
The Canadian Rangers are the Indigenous peoples for cripes sake.
You will not back back up any of your statements when I call you on the details.
What troops?
Where?
No Subs?
No Canadian Military high tech gear?
American and Canadian troops in native prepared furs?
Your full of BS Kakato and its pretty easy to see.
Constantly changing the subject and posting your videos of the North change nothing.
And since you didnt refute it now I am pretty much positive you have never been to the Arctic.
You have to go above the Arctic Circle to be in the Arctic Krakato.
And as to me I stand by what I said.
Its all as close as memory serves.
You should have called me on the fast movers landing in Alert though, frankly I think I am wrong on that one.
I have been to the Arctic.
I have stayed in research stations in the High Arctic.
I have stayed at Alert while under contract to the military.
And I have lived in a small tent on the permanent ice cap north of Ellsmere Island.
And any one else on this forum who actually has been to Alert will quickly agree I have been there once we start chatting about "beers on the beach".
And yes it's an insider thing.
I am done with calling you on this.
The only reason I did was because you made up a bunch of stuff about or Armed Forces.
Your a story teller I can tell.
Nothing personal intended.
Trex
I was in the barrenlands,technically its classed as the arctic,you on the other hand I dont think has been there.
Maybe your making stuff up or maybe you were in a posh camp where ya didnt **** in a pail in an unheated outhouse with no seat.
I dont know but you obviously have a chip on your shoulder.
It's quite entertaining,think I have backed my statements up with personal experience enough.
So tell me what icebreakers are going to achieve,you still havent answered that one.
Maybe your making stuff up or maybe you were in a posh camp where ya didnt **** in a pail in an unheated outhouse with no seat.
I dont know but you obviously have a chip on your shoulder.
It's quite entertaining,think I have backed my statements up with personal experience enough.
So tell me what icebreakers are going to achieve,you still havent answered that one.
Why not just admit that both of you have had experiences in the Arctic but they were different experiences? Sheeeeeeeeesh. As far as temperature goes, Les was north of Edmonton but south of 60 during a winter and the temps for a while were like -55 to -60C with a high wind-chill factor on top of that. Cold is cold. It doesn't need a pissing match. His experience is that the colder it gets the more you need to warm fuel up or nothing works and it is easier to break machinery. As far as the military goes, they've been scooting around in the Arctic for a lot of years (a little since before WW2 but quite a bit during and after WW2).
Heres a vid from 3 years ago or was it 2?
We were running out of fuel in our five 1 millon gallon tanks and were flying it in by single and twin otters and had the Innuit sledding it up from baker lake 3 barrels at a time on the kamitaks.
We were transfering about 66 drums a day which was barely enough to keep the camp running,everyone in the video is involved from the geologists,the drillers from Boart longyear,cooks and cooks helpers and the chopper pilots.
This is pure survival mode,if the fuel levels fell to a certain point it was just a matter of time before we could abandon and get back to Baker in the gotrac or an otter,or start burning structures to keep from freezing.
Ookpik airlines and Ken Borak flew for us,Ken Borak is the airline that flew to the antarctic to pick up that sick doctor.
My bombi was our only mode of transportation,the only thing running besides the otters.
No drama here,if I go back there every year for 20 years I will still be awestruck by it so if I like to show peeps a bit of a view of what it's like up there then forgive me.
I like to share my experiences and I know that its a lot different up there then what I thought it would be like before going.
YouTube - Hauling fuel.
We were running out of fuel in our five 1 millon gallon tanks and were flying it in by single and twin otters and had the Innuit sledding it up from baker lake 3 barrels at a time on the kamitaks.
We were transfering about 66 drums a day which was barely enough to keep the camp running,everyone in the video is involved from the geologists,the drillers from Boart longyear,cooks and cooks helpers and the chopper pilots.
This is pure survival mode,if the fuel levels fell to a certain point it was just a matter of time before we could abandon and get back to Baker in the gotrac or an otter,or start burning structures to keep from freezing.
Ookpik airlines and Ken Borak flew for us,Ken Borak is the airline that flew to the antarctic to pick up that sick doctor.
My bombi was our only mode of transportation,the only thing running besides the otters.
No drama here,if I go back there every year for 20 years I will still be awestruck by it so if I like to show peeps a bit of a view of what it's like up there then forgive me.
I like to share my experiences and I know that its a lot different up there then what I thought it would be like before going.
YouTube - Hauling fuel.
Um, whose bright idea was it to have 5 million gallons of container when a 1 million gallon container is obviously extreme overkill?
I see your point and agree with your point that it's juvenile to pursue this little pissing match with Krakato.
It was the bullsh!t he made up about the military that got me annoyed.
And then when I called him on it it rapidly became apparent that he was, to be polite,
A teller of tall stories and totally incapable of defending his claims.
As to the military up north for years, indeed you are correct Anna.
The old Alcan winter and ice road system was built during world WW2 to insure a secret supply of oil for the Americans from Norman Wells. What a construction project that must have been
Now parts of that old military Alcan Road have become parts of the Alaska Highway.
And I agree with you that cold is cold no matter where you live.
Diesel gels and propane does not like to vaporize once you get much below-45 no matter where you are.
And that includes Winnipeg.
But tens of thousands of Canadians deal with it every day during winter.
Its old news.
Die if the generator failed my @ss.
Trex
We were building a mine and you only have so many months where you can haul fuel to the camp,most camps shut down at the end of september,anything north of Hudsons bay then freezes until next july.
Plus the contractor I was working for decided to hire all his unemployed logger buds from near Kamloops and start a nightshift.His wife was running a cat and his kid was hiding in a tent most of the day,his bro was forman,nepotism at its finest.
It killed our fuel supply and got me in major **** with the guy I was working for.
Ah. That clears it up. Comical story, though. lol Sounds like it'd make a good episode for the Simpson's or something. lmao