Father charged in son's spanking.

[talloola]

Oh bull. If I say I think it's wrong to hit a kid, that's my stance, free of rudeness and arrogance. If I say "Oh my god, I can' believe you spank your kid. My kids are so lucky I'm better than that." then it's arrogant and rude. End of story.

But again, I suspect you're trying to pretend I was talking about you when I wasn't, and feigning insult over something that initially never even applied to you.

I'm not trying to pretend anything, just making a general point, so settle down
and take a deep breath.
I didn't mention anything about anyone saying the above, but you did say on
another post, that it is arrogant and rude, (think that was the words, if not
you meant the same thing.
to say it is wrong to spank kids, whomever they belong to, and of course if
it was said like you describe above, then I would agree with you, simple.

It is not arrogant to say that it is wrong, as people who believe it is wrong,
think very strongly about that practice to a point where they believe it does
harm, so of course they would say it is wrong.
I'm not quite that strict about the practice, as I stated before there are many
levels of spanking, so one would have to witness the act to know form their
opinion, and I'm sure that isn't hard to do.
The spankings, or hitting of childen would be done behind closed doors, mostly
so no one would be wtiness to it anyway.

If posts do not apply to 'any' of us who wish to respond, then name your persons
in your posts, and ask the rest to refrain from responding.
I don't really care who you are directing your posts to, but if there is something
within the post that applies to my way of thinking, or deals with somelthing
I have posted, I will know that, whether you intended it or not, I will respond.

 

[karrie]

Is it just my experience, or has anyone else found that the people who are most outspoken about spanking... (and no, I don't mean just people who don't spank, but, people who make a big show of not spanking).

... no... having an opinion that it's wrong isn't the same thing as making a big show of not doing it. I wish I could explain the difference in some of the people I know.

If posts do not apply to 'any' of us who wish to respond, then name your persons
in your posts, and ask the rest to refrain from responding.

My issue is that you and I have addressed this through four or five posts now, with you seemingly not hearing what I'm saying, or at least not acknowledging that you've heard it before you type yet another 2 paragraph post about how wrong it is.

 

[talloola]

Obviously, unless the child is a moron, the child KNEW that if they do a certain thing they risk getting spanked...so obviously, if they did it, they wanted to get spanked.;-)

Many children want what they want. don't plan ahead, of course they don't
want to get spanked,I see by the smiley that you know that too, but they are children, not too smart yet, and certain
kinds of kids, couldn't care less about the spanking, does nothing to hurt
them or help them or change them either way, it is a useless tool, unless
a child is 'afraid' of spanking, then you control them with the fear of it,
I guess that is what the parent is counting on.

 

[talloola]

My issue is that you and I have addressed this through four or five posts now, with you seemingly not hearing what I'm saying, or at least not acknowledging that you've heard it before you type yet another 2 paragraph post about how wrong it is.

yep, you can be rid of me now, I'm satisfied.;-)

 

[talloola]

That's true but saying that hitting is wrong no matter what by someone who is an NHL insider seems bloody contradictory to me.

Oh come off it, hockey is a game, that's where one can hit and be hit and love
every minute of it.

 

[talloola]

Hang on, there is plenty of hitting in the NHL. What's with the duality on the subject?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you're really goofy.

 

[Unforgiven]

Oh come off it, hockey is a game, that's where one can hit and be hit and love
every minute of it.

Sure but you didn't really answer the question. ;-)

 

[gerryh]

Many children want what they want. don't plan ahead, of course they don't
want to get spanked,I see by the smiley that you know that too, but they are children, not too smart yet, and certain
kinds of kids, couldn't care less about the spanking, does nothing to hurt
them or help them or change them either way, it is a useless tool, unless
a child is 'afraid' of spanking, then you control them with the fear of it,
I guess that is what the parent is counting on.

All forms of punishment are "feared" by children, otherwise they'd be pretty useless as a punishment or deterrent. If the child didn't "fear" getting in trouble for a particular action then they wouldn't worry about the deterrent.

For those children that a smack on the butt or a smack on the hand doesn't work, then you use something else. Corporal punishment is just ONE trick in the bag.

I've mentioned it before, and I am sure there are some on here that say "big deal", Jenn and I have 7 kids. Not a single one was the "same", every one was dfferent in how they reacted to different forms of punishment and deterents. A couple, the only thing they understood was the smack on the butt because you could take everything away from them and they didn't care. You could ground them and they didn't care.

I should point out though, that even the ones that we used some form of corporol punishment with did "out grow" it and different ways were needed to be found.

ANYBODY that says, "this is the way I did it and it worked fine, so that's the way you should do it" is naive at the least. For those that have raised only one or two kids, you REALLY don't have any idea as to the diversity.

 

[AnnaG]

And raised 'a magnificent human being'.

Oh the joys of being perfect, wealthy, always correct, and holier than thou.

We can all pretend to be God on the internet.

Hey, you chauvinist, you forgot goddesses.

 

[AnnaG]

To be ignored by "Mr. Knowitall"...?......perish the thought.....:roll:
Read my sig......when I write enough for it to show..... unlike another long winded individual.:lol:
It seems dots wont do it.;-)
Edit: It did.....

Yup, it did work. lol

I wonder who Zan was thinking of when she coined the term "pompass".

 

[AnnaG]

She has all the essentials. cigarettes, beer, whiskey, and it looks like a package of Kraft dinner. What more would we want....:lol:

Budweiser isn't real beer and Kraft dinner isn't real food. lol

 

[AnnaG]

You can always tell a Canadian.

Tell us what?

 

[talloola]

Sure but you didn't really answer the question. ;-)

There was no question worth answering, the answer is clear to anyone with
a sensible working brain.

 

[talloola]

All forms of punishment are "feared" by children, otherwise they'd be pretty useless as a punishment or deterrent. If the child didn't "fear" getting in trouble for a particular action then they wouldn't worry about the deterrent.

Some children aren't afraid, as I stated in my post, my husband was one of those
as a child, was hit many many times, did not fear it, put up with it, and then
went on his merry way.
His parents knew only one way, they were old fashioned, italian immigrants, and didn't have any other ideas, not their fault, they had the same treatment
as children.
Not all forms of punishment are feared by children, I disagree with that.
Some children are highly afraid of any punishment, hence, obedient, others
are fearful but can't seem to control their behavior so get their punishment,
others have no fear, but can be controlled by other means that doesn't
contain fear. Taking away things they like to do for instance, and other
similar punishments.
In my husbands case, as a child, nothing was going to take away his 'going'
to play hockey, so for those parents who forbid sports, I wonder what they
would do to stop him.
I suppose they could have locked him up somewhere, but as soon as they
unlocked him, he would have gone to play hockey.
I think most parents would give up before he ever would have.

 

[karrie]

Taking away things they like to do for instance, and other
similar punishments.

My son fears losing his PS2 more than he fears a spanking. Fear is fear.

 

[Unforgiven]

There was no question worth answering, the answer is clear to anyone with
a sensible working brain.

No it isn't. And if being snotty is the goal to duck out of reconsiling on one hand saying that hitting it something only a moron would do then the next that hitting is fun and people like it, it won't work.

Like most people that bleat on about no spanking, no violence, nothing but a good talking to finds all that falls when they get the first boot in the teeth.

Animals like people come to understand that in the end they do what authority makes them do because authority will in the end make them do it by force.
Hence the big burly police and military.

Reason and logic should always be the first choice, and force the last.

 

[TenPenny]

Tell us what?

By the Kraft Dinner.

It's only called that in Canada.

 

[Extrafire]

My wife and I have raised two kids who are successful and have children of their own now and I don't think the occasional smack in the ass is a bad thing. Parenting is not easy and corporal punishment is just one of the tools available. One of the most important things in raising a child has to be consistency. Everything is so much easier if the kids know where the limits are.

You nailed it in one short paragraph. Parenthood is a dictatorship. The parent has no choice in the matter. If the parent abdicates his/her position as dictator, the child will become the dictator.

My children never misbehaved in public and my wife and I were frequently complimented on how well behaved they were. It wasn't just spanking, as you said, that's only one of the tools the parent/dictator has and it's the tool of last resort. When government busybodies take power away from the parent/dictator they are in essence handing power to the child, and the child knows it and will use that power. It isn't always necessary for parents to exercise that power, but it is necessary that the parent have the power, and the child know it.

 

[Unforgiven]

Something else to point out in this thread is that good preparation often makes for a happy trip to the store foregoing any chastisement.

 

[AnnaG]

My son fears losing his PS2 more than he fears a spanking. Fear is fear.

Yeah. Sometimes fear is necessary. Positive reinforcement works the best. The whole idea is to promote positive behavior.

positive=>adding/giving
negative=>removing/withdrawing
reinforcement=>increasing behavior
punishment=>decreasing behavior

So positive reinforcement is adding something to increase a behavior. Rewarding for good behavior.
Negative r. means removing something to increase a behavior. Dismissing a child from doing dishes, for instance.
Positive punishment is adding something (like a swat on the bottom) to decrease a behavior.
Negative punishment is removing something to decrease a behavior. IE; removing privileges to stop bad behavior.